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PERM Processing Labor processing through PERM

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  #1  
Old 10-12-2009, 05:03 PM
enggr enggr is offline
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Default How to get lower Prevailing wage for PERM EB2 (Bach + 5 years) under level 3?

Hi,
My employer is processing an EB2 labor certification (Bachelors + 5 years). They have 3 to 4 job openings in varying requirements. Which is the best one for me to get the lowest prevailing wage out of all so that it matches my current low to medium wages.

the employer did a Prevailing wage determination last month from local SWA and it came close to $92,000 per year.
The job got classified under level 4
These are the details of the prevailing wage request that resulted in $92,000

Job Title: Software Engineer
Basic Hours per week: 40
Job duties to be performed:
Design and development of software projects using microsoft technologies. Develop/Maintain internet/intranet applications like web portals/website and desktop applications using Visual Basic/SQL Server. Develop/Maintain web services for internet applications. Develop/maintain webpages for websites. Define entities and draw entity relationship diagram using UML for software applications. Debug/Test the development software applications.
System analysis/Design/Development/documentation of new software projects. Deployment and technical su

Minimum Education,Training,Experience & other special requirements for the job

B.S. in Engineering field for Computer science with 5 years experience as a software engineer/technical consultant

These are the results from prevailing wage determination

O*Net: Computer Software Engineers,Systems software
O*Net code: 15-1032
Skill Level : 4
Source: OES Survey

The employer is willing to change the job description (to match another available job) to bring down the prevailing wage and salary level to level 3 instead of the current level of 4
We understand that the 5 yrs exp. requirement is the one triggering higher prevailing wage

I checked the following govt. agency website and came up with a similar profile which could possibly bring our requirement to level 3

FLCDataCenter.com

OES/SOC Code: 15-1021
OES/SOC Title: Computer Programmers

Level 3 Wage: $37.51 hour - $78,021 year
Level 4 Wage: $43.32 hour - $90,106 year

15-1021.00 Computer Programmers

Convert project specifications and statements of problems and procedures to detailed logical flow charts for coding into computer language. Develop and write computer programs to store, locate, and retrieve specific documents, data, and information. May program web sites.
O*Net™ JobZone: 4
Education & Training Code: 5-Bachelor's degree




JobZone Four: Considerable Preparation Needed

Experience: A minimum of two to four years of work-related skill, knowledge, or experience is needed for these occupations. For example, an accountant must complete four years of college and work for several years in accounting to be considered qualified.

Education: Most of these occupations require a four-year bachelor's degree, but some do not.

Job Training: Employees in these occupations usually need several years of work-related experience, on-the-job training, and/or vocational training.

Examples: many of these occupations involve coordinating, supervising, managing, or training others. Examples include accountants, human resource managers, computer programmers, teachers, chemists, and police detectives.

SVP Range: 7.0 < 8.0

----------------------------------------------------------- TRAINING CODES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Education and Training Codes for Professional Occupations

Five: Bachelor's Degree
Completion of the degree program generally requires at least 4 years but not more than 5 years of full-time equivalent academic work.

----------------------------------------------------------- TRAINING CODES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are 5 job duties enough for PERM/prevailing wage or do we need more? Do more job duties trigger a level 4 instead of level 3?

Depending upon what we get on the new prevailing wage request results we can tweak the newspaper ad by the following
SOFTWARE ENGINEER to COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

I am not sure whether .NET programming , web services etc might trigger a change in job title/salary level in the prevailing wage request.

Please let me know your thoughts for a safe PERM processing. I appreciate your help a lot

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2009, 05:17 PM
belmontboy belmontboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enggr View Post
Hi,
My employer is processing an EB2 labor certification (Bachelors + 5 years). They have 3 to 4 job openings in varying requirements. Which is the best one for me to get the lowest prevailing wage out of all so that it matches my current low to medium wages.

the employer did a Prevailing wage determination last month from local SWA and it came close to $92,000 per year.
The job got classified under level 4
These are the details of the prevailing wage request that resulted in $92,000

Job Title: Software Engineer
Basic Hours per week: 40
Job duties to be performed:
Design and development of software projects using microsoft technologies. Develop/Maintain internet/intranet applications like web portals/website and desktop applications using Visual Basic/SQL Server. Develop/Maintain web services for internet applications. Develop/maintain webpages for websites. Define entities and draw entity relationship diagram using UML for software applications. Debug/Test the development software applications.
System analysis/Design/Development/documentation of new software projects. Deployment and technical su

Minimum Education,Training,Experience & other special requirements for the job

B.S. in Engineering field for Computer science with 5 years experience as a software engineer/technical consultant

These are the results from prevailing wage determination

O*Net: Computer Software Engineers,Systems software
O*Net code: 15-1032
Skill Level : 4
Source: OES Survey

The employer is willing to change the job description (to match another available job) to bring down the prevailing wage and salary level to level 3 instead of the current level of 4
We understand that the 5 yrs exp. requirement is the one triggering higher prevailing wage

I checked the following govt. agency website and came up with a similar profile which could possibly bring our requirement to level 3

FLCDataCenter.com

OES/SOC Code: 15-1021
OES/SOC Title: Computer Programmers

Level 3 Wage: $37.51 hour - $78,021 year
Level 4 Wage: $43.32 hour - $90,106 year

15-1021.00 Computer Programmers

Convert project specifications and statements of problems and procedures to detailed logical flow charts for coding into computer language. Develop and write computer programs to store, locate, and retrieve specific documents, data, and information. May program web sites.
O*Net™ JobZone: 4
Education & Training Code: 5-Bachelor's degree




JobZone Four: Considerable Preparation Needed

Experience: A minimum of two to four years of work-related skill, knowledge, or experience is needed for these occupations. For example, an accountant must complete four years of college and work for several years in accounting to be considered qualified.

Education: Most of these occupations require a four-year bachelor's degree, but some do not.

Job Training: Employees in these occupations usually need several years of work-related experience, on-the-job training, and/or vocational training.

Examples: many of these occupations involve coordinating, supervising, managing, or training others. Examples include accountants, human resource managers, computer programmers, teachers, chemists, and police detectives.

SVP Range: 7.0 < 8.0

----------------------------------------------------------- TRAINING CODES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Education and Training Codes for Professional Occupations

Five: Bachelor's Degree
Completion of the degree program generally requires at least 4 years but not more than 5 years of full-time equivalent academic work.

----------------------------------------------------------- TRAINING CODES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are 5 job duties enough for PERM/prevailing wage or do we need more? Do more job duties trigger a level 4 instead of level 3?

Depending upon what we get on the new prevailing wage request results we can tweak the newspaper ad by the following
SOFTWARE ENGINEER to COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

I am not sure whether .NET programming , web services etc might trigger a change in job title/salary level in the prevailing wage request.

Please let me know your thoughts for a safe PERM processing. I appreciate your help a lot

Thanks
How can your job descripion be changed to fit your salary??
isn't it the other way? I mean, you should be paid accordingly to your job description.

whatever your employer is trying to do sounds illegal to me
__________________
PD: Oct 2007, EB2
I-140 - Approved Sep 2008.
485 - Nov 4, 2011 (RD)
485 approved on Jan 25,2012.
Physical cards received on Jan 30, 2012
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Last edited by belmontboy; 10-12-2009 at 05:21 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-12-2009, 05:23 PM
Ramba Ramba is offline
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Your employer can do nothing about PW determination by SWA, if your employer has requested OES wage detrmination. The PW is mainly determined by the "requirements" not by "job duties/description". If the wage for your position is bargained by the union, then, your employer may counter with SWA by showing the bargain agreement to determine the PW.

On the other hand, if your employer seeks only 3 or 4 years experience, then they may consider level 3

Last edited by Ramba; 10-12-2009 at 05:27 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2009, 06:20 PM
enggr enggr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belmontboy View Post
How can your job descripion be changed to fit your salary??
isn't it the other way? I mean, you should be paid accordingly to your job description.

whatever your employer is trying to do sounds illegal to me
Hi,
thanks for your reply. by job description i mean the description of the job that can be offered to me by the employer after green card. the employer has 2 or 3 open jobs at this point (and also in the very near future)(above junior,experienced, senior). The employer can pay only a certain salary for the future job and the attorney was trying to find a category that best fits both requirement.
The attorney is recommending the employer to only offer a job that meets the salary. if the employer can't pay the salary the attorney is recommending not to process the case under EB2 and go for EB3 or not process the case at all.
They don't want to process a case that doesn't meet the requirements.
any thoughts?
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2009, 06:29 PM
enggr enggr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramba View Post
Your employer can do nothing about PW determination by SWA, if your employer has requested OES wage detrmination. The PW is mainly determined by the "requirements" not by "job duties/description". If the wage for your position is bargained by the union, then, your employer may counter with SWA by showing the bargain agreement to determine the PW.

On the other hand, if your employer seeks only 3 or 4 years experience, then they may consider level 3
Thank you for your reply. if the job requires 5 years of experience does it automatically falls into level 4 even though level 3 says "not more than 5 years" (which I assume 5 years is OK to fall under level 3). your thoughts?
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2010, 09:45 PM
SLW SLW is offline
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HI, Do you have any update on your case? I have something similar case here. Thanks
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2010, 08:56 AM
krishmunn krishmunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLW View Post
HI, Do you have any update on your case? I have something similar case here. Thanks
GC is always for future job . So, if your current salary is X and the wage determination shows Y (Y > X) it is not a problem provided employer can show "ability to pay" Y starting from the date PERM is filed (PD).
Given that even a EB 2 GC takes around 5 years for Indians, it is very likely that your salary will be Y by the time you get the GC.
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2010, 11:09 AM
enggr enggr is offline
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my attorney said I had some misconceptions about labor certification and its totally an employers petition for a open and cannot be changed/modified to meet the affordable salary the employer can pay
They attorney asked my employer to give the description of job and the salary offered to it. attorney said if they meet requirement the case can be filed otherwise its not possible to do the case
employer stufied the job requirements, and then offered 92K which put the job into eb2 level 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLW View Post
HI, Do you have any update on your case? I have something similar case here. Thanks
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