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  #1  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:17 AM
pappu pappu is offline
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Default .04%: A really Good piece by Greg Siskind

IV thanks Greg for writing this piece. Hope it gets circulated to various media reporters so that they can objectively assess the recently published biased media report by AP

http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2009/02/04.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Siskind
.04%
This morning the Associated Press is running one of the most unfair pieces I've seen in a long time regarding the H-1B visa program. I expect this sort of thing out of the xenophobic fringe press, but the AP is an organization that used to be known for objectivity. The story focuses on the hiring of H-1B workers in the banking sector and is running with the headline "Bailout banks tried to hire foreign workers." Ooh. That's really bad. Lots of Americans losing their jobs and here are these greedy banks hiring cheap foreign workers to replace them. The public has a right to know!

Let's discuss the facts cited in the article first and then we can move on to some of the really biased analysis. The AP's Frank Bass and Rita Beamish (it took two reporters to get a story this wrong?) tell readers that banks receiving more than $150 billion in bailout money hired more than 21,800 foreign workers. Wow. Oh wait, that's over the last six years. So we're talking about 3500 workers a year on average. And some of those years were in a pretty strong economy.

But how much does 3500 even mean? How many workers are there in the banking sector? Quite a lot, actually. According to the Labor Department, even with the economic downturn, there are still more than 8 million workers in the sector. And as of last year around this time, unemployment in the banking sector was just 3.2%. Most of the workers included in the 21,000 were brought in during this extremely low unemployment period.

So let's just be clear - banks seek to fill .04% of their workforce with H-1B workers. The horror!

The AP then goes on to mention that in fiscal year 2008, banks "sought" 4,163 H-1B visas. A couple of points that the reporters failed to mention:

- Fiscal year 2008 actually runs from October 1, 2007 until September 30, 2008. Because of high demand for the H-1B visa, applications must be filed six months ahead of the start of the fiscal year to have any chance so that means these applications were filed in April 2007.

- The number cited is the number of visas sought, not the number actually used. First, only about half of applicants actually got H-1B visas for fiscal year 2008 because of excessive demand. Second, many applicants who are approved for a visa by USCIS don't actually end up claiming the visa at a US consulate and entering to work for the sponsoring employer.

- A lot of those H-1B workers were educated in the US - many receiving MBAs at American universities around the country. We educated these folks so why should we not benefit from their work?

- Just how many H-1B workers in banking have been laid off? I know anecdotally quite a few because I've been helping many people facing sudden unemployment. This is absolutely critical to the story yet it is something left unanswered.

It became apparent to me reading a bit further in the article that this is just a hit piece set up by the same anti-H-1B folks in the high tech sector that have been pushing for protectionism for years. In fact, the only people quoted in the story are Programmers Guild members and Senator Chuck Grassley whose record on this issue speaks for itself. Funny how they can't find a single unemployed banking industry worker they can ask about supposedly training their foreign replacement.

And look at this statement in the story simply recited as fact:

Foreigners are attractive hires because companies have found ways to pay them less than American workers.

Aside from the fact that this is patently untrue, the reporters don't even bother to cite any studies showing this is true. They just state that companies routinely seek to replace more experienced hire paid Americans with these workers. Of course, if this were really possible, I suspect we would see more than .04% of the banking sector filled with H-1B workers. These are greedy bankers after all.

When newspapers that are struggling to survive are shelling out big bucks to the AP to run their wire stories, shouldn't they expect better?
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Last edited by pappu; 02-05-2009 at 12:20 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:28 AM
pappu pappu is offline
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It maybe helpful to send letters to editors of all newspapers and TV channels that covered this story.

IV members can organize and run this campaign.
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2009, 01:21 PM
jchan jchan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappu View Post
IV thanks Greg for writing this piece. Hope it gets circulated to various media reporters so that they can objectively assess the recently published biased media report by AP

http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2009/02/04.html
I have one extra point to add to the article -- that the bail out money also contains tax paid by H1B and Green Card workers. And on average, H1B workers paid more tax per person than average Americans due to higher income
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2009, 01:23 PM
PresidentO PresidentO is offline
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Originally Posted by jchan View Post
I have one extra point to add to the article -- that the bail out money also contains tax paid by H1B and Green Card workers. And on average, H1B workers paid more tax per person than average Americans due to higher income
very good point.
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  #5  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:59 PM
needhelp! needhelp! is offline
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Default

Thanks Greg for that post.

Whats been said before on IV and is relevant here is that Why the media and anti-immigrants have this special attraction towards H1B in particular?

Why don't they pick on all the other visa types that are available + all the close to 850,000 per year that get green cards due to lottery, and family-sponsored? Don't they get added to the workforce as well? And dept of labor never even looked at their qualifications or anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentO View Post
very good point.
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2009, 04:52 PM
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:48 PM
needhelp! needhelp! is offline
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Can someone come up with a list of places that we should be writing to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappu View Post
It maybe helpful to send letters to editors of all newspapers and TV channels that covered this story.

IV members can organize and run this campaign.
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2009, 10:09 PM
pappu pappu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needhelp! View Post
Can someone come up with a list of places that we should be writing to?
I think each one of us should write to local and their regional papers.

Apart from this, write to he editors of all national papers.

There should also be several mails to Associated Press setting the facts straight and complaining about this one sided article.
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2009, 01:50 AM
jkays94 jkays94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappu View Post
I think each one of us should write to local and their regional papers.

Apart from this, write to he editors of all national papers.

There should also be several mails to Associated Press setting the facts straight and complaining about this one sided article.
Probable email addresses for the two writers: fbass at ap.org and rbeamish at ap.org

The AP article has likely already spurred some legislative action following its publication:

Senate bill would bar H-1B hiring at firms receiving bailout money

Last edited by jkays94; 02-06-2009 at 01:52 AM.
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2009, 03:12 AM
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Default .04% calculation is wrong

Actually Greg calculated all the bank staff. But calculation needs to be done only within high skilled people. So it needs to be calculated how much percentage in the high skilled people. Also every year 140K green cards are allocated in that most of them are H1b.So the percentage is going to be misleading. Of course the percentage will be used for pro immigraion campaign but that is not going to be true reflection of fact
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:23 AM
needhelp! needhelp! is offline
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Default ?????

At first they say that the foreign workers are being paid "nearly twice the median income for all American households", and then they go on to contradict their findings by saying that "Foreigners are attractive hires because companies have found ways to pay them less than American workers".




I'll be finding some time to write today. If any of you already did it, could you post a basic template for all of us?

_____________


Bailout banks sought foreign workers

Frank Bass And Rita Beamish

February 2, 2009
Banks collecting billions of dollars in federal bailout money sought government permission to bring thousands of foreign workers to the US for high-paying jobs, according to an Associated Press review of visa applications.
The dozen banks receiving the biggest rescue packages, totalling more than $US150 billion ($A230.1 billion), requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years for positions that included senior vice presidents, corporate lawyers, junior investment analysts and human resources specialists. The average annual salary for those jobs was $90,721, nearly twice the median income for all American households.
The figures are significant because they show that the bailed-out banks, being kept afloat with US taxpayer money, actively sought to hire foreign workers instead of American workers. As the economic collapse worsened last year - with huge numbers of bank employees laid off - the numbers of visas sought by the dozen banks in AP's analysis increased by nearly one-third, from 3,258 in fiscal 2007 to 4,163 in fiscal 2008.
The AP reviewed visa applications the banks filed with the Labor Department under the H-1B visa program, which allows temporary employment of foreign workers in specialised-skill and advanced-degree positions.
It is unclear how many foreign workers the banks actually hired; the government does not release those details. The actual number is likely a fraction of the 21,800 foreign workers the banks sought to hire because the government limits the number of visas it grants to 85,000 each year among all US employers.
During the last three months of 2008, the largest banks that received taxpayer loans announced more than 100,000 layoffs. The number of foreign workers included among those laid off is unknown.
Foreigners are attractive hires because companies have found ways to pay them less than American workers.
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2009, 11:29 AM
needhelp! needhelp! is offline
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Default

Its not wrong. They're complaining about the banking industry as a whole, everyone working in the banking industry got bailed out, not just the high-skilled workers, right??
Quote:
Originally Posted by senthil1 View Post
Actually Greg calculated all the bank staff. But calculation needs to be done only within high skilled people. So it needs to be calculated how much percentage in the high skilled people. Also every year 140K green cards are allocated in that most of them are H1b.So the percentage is going to be misleading. Of course the percentage will be used for pro immigraion campaign but that is not going to be true reflection of fact

If they really wanted to do a comparison of high-skilled category, and to be fair to the banking industry, they should have tried to find
- the total number of foriegn highskilled workers (HSFW) hired by those banks VS total number of HSFW hired by other banks that didn't get bailed out
- total HSFW hired by bailout banks VS total High skilled US citizens workforce

Just throwing in some numbers to create sensationalism is not expected from AP reporters.


_________________________________

Why didn't they compare the income with average national salaries for the positions that they were hired in?
Here are the national averages found from payscale website:
Banking Senior Vice President - $118632
Corporate Attorney - $95762
Junior Investment Analyst - $60454
HR Specialist - $49321

$90K average among these job positions sounds just about right, not too less and not higher.

________________________________
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Last edited by needhelp!; 02-06-2009 at 12:05 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2009, 12:11 PM
needhelp! needhelp! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needhelp! View Post
_________________________________

Why didn't they compare the income with average national salaries for the positions that they were hired in?
Here are the national averages found from payscale website:
Banking Senior Vice President - $118632
Corporate Attorney - $95762
Junior Investment Analyst - $60454
HR Specialist - $49321

$90K average among these job positions sounds just about right, not too less and not higher.

________________________________
The real average would really depend on how many they hired in each job title, so we may have to dig some more, so its possible the hr specialist and junior investment analysts were getting paid higher than average.
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  #14  
Old 02-06-2009, 03:08 PM
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:23 PM
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Default doesnt make any sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libra View Post
David Huber of Chicago is a computer networking engineer who has testified to Congress about losing out on a 2002 job with the former Bank One Corp. He learned later the bank applied to hire dozens of foreign visa holders for work he said he was qualified to do.
Why did AP reporters interview a computer engineer if most of the banking industry H1B hires were Vice Presidents, Corporate Lawyers, Investment Analysts and HR Specialists ???

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