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  #31  
Old 05-24-2006, 02:48 PM
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jkays94 is on a distinguished road
Default McCain on Dobbs...

http://www.observer.com/20060529/200...newsstory1.asp

He cautioned against ghettoizing immigrants, which he noted has brought about disastrous results in France, and criticized elements in his own party as “nativist” before lambasting the punditry of Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs and Michael Savage for helping to “fuel the problem,” according to two of the sources.
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  #32  
Old 05-24-2006, 02:58 PM
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Thumbs down Communique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Communique
That's censorship. Go ahead and good luck with your mentality. It seems you can't handle the truth and views that could give you better information to handle debates and put more intelligent requests ahead.

Go and learn something, learning01. Just stop reading the posts on this thread and stop posting here if you don't like. It is awful when people tries to take a censorship in open forums.
I've said this before: I usually dont like casting aspersions, but take a look at a lot of Communique's posts. Some look like they were copied and pasted word for word from the NumbersUsa or FAIR site. And now he's defending Lou Dobbs. Using terms like "mass migration" "unchecked immigration", etc. He claims to be an H1B, and he's trolling Lou Dobbs. I think most people on this site can see through the facade.
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  #33  
Old 05-24-2006, 02:59 PM
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Default Dobb's numerous Misrepresentations

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topic...oudobbstonight

Last edited by jkays94; 05-24-2006 at 03:01 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-24-2006, 03:09 PM
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learning01 is on a distinguished road
Default Yes, for the past 30 min. I was researching on Communique's

threads and postings. Since he is challenging and throwing baby tantrums on a forum, of all things, let's have it.
Here, I quote from his first troll post in this thread:
Quote:
wages have been stagnated for the last five years.
Now, my friend Communique can you back this up with reliable references and links. Also, can you rebut, point by point on what I said about Lou Dobbs.
Even in the commentary in the link given by this thread's starter, there is all kinds of rants from Lou and not one, I repeat not one senctence, let alone one paragraph on issues affecting legal immigration.
I have said earlier: we have to stay focussed on the retrogression and backlog issues. That's what I have been urging Communique and others in this thread. Increase or decrease of H1 is not our goal here. In fact, I should not discussing this. I was trying to bring all folks here to our focussed goals and action on hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dartkid31
I've said this before: I usually dont like casting aspersions, but take a look at a lot of Communique's posts. Some look like they were copied and pasted word for word from the NumbersUsa or FAIR site. And now he's defending Lou Dobbs. Using terms like "mass migration" "unchecked immigration", etc. He claims to be an H1B, and he's trolling Lou Dobbs. I think most people on this site can see through the facade.

Last edited by learning01; 05-24-2006 at 03:18 PM.
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  #35  
Old 05-24-2006, 03:18 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Communique
WaitNwatch,

No. How about you:can you show a study and correlation between outsourcing and salary stagnation ?

Let's be honest and realistic, do you believe that by bringing more workers, how long that would prevent companies from offshoring jobs ? It is true that by not bringing more workers, companies would be more willing to offshore. In my view, companies will offshore regardless in the future. With or without cheaper labor here, they will be tempted to go overseas since the savings are significant, am I right ? At that time is when people has legitimate concerns to control the numbers of newcomers.
Your logic is getting a little simplistic here. I will try to explain the best I can and this is my last post on the topic. Here are a few points. Try to link them together and you will get a sense of the whole logic.
(1) Companies outsource because of cheap labor.
(2) Companies also look elsewhere when there is a shortage.
(3) There are areas other than high tech (e.g. science, mathematics, biotechnology) that need people from outside (including fresh US university graduates).
(4) Other countries will catch up with the US if cutting edge companies donot find enough STEM people.
(5) These other countries with more logical immigration policies will attract talent and the companies will move there.
(4) Graduates in STEM need to get H1B after their practical training.
(5) US does not produce enough STEM graduates and cannot entice foreign students if there are no H1B's available when they enter the job market.
(6) Outsourcing of top science jobs are not only lost jobs but also cause collateral damage and reduce other jobs dependent on that job.
(7) Without the supply of high quality graduates the companies lose their cutting edge and start cost cutting instead of innovating.

There is a national research council report which may be available from the National Academy of Sciences. Foreign STEM's are desperately needed and non-availability of H1B visas means fewer students will come as they are uncertain of getting a H1B. Here is an Indian example: The IIT graduate will go to Bangalore and earn enough from day 1 to own a nice apartment, have a chauffeur and a maid. On the other hand you want him to come to the US to work 6 years on a Ph.D getting a student stipend and no guarantee to stay and work. If you think this top brain will come you should be living in the world of Peter Pan.
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  #36  
Old 05-24-2006, 03:31 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Communique
I don't have the time to go one by one, but one of the arguments about "Zogby poll taken by anti-immigration" groups is at minimum comic. How about other polls posted along the years which show the obvious and logic, which is the American people (not employers of course) support lower immigration numbers ? Anyone surprised by that ?
There are over 50 different instances referencing Lou Dobbs. He misleads and misdirects and he will flip flop when he is caught between a rock and a hard place on his wild claims. CNN by extension is fast establishing itself as an anti-immigrant media house for purposes of ratings, on which is it fast loosing ground. Their latest hire Glenn Beck only shows that promoting such an agenda seems to save CNN's ratings from plunging to the bottom :

MON., MAY 22, 2006 VIEWERS

FNC O'REILLY 2,105,000
FNC HANNITY/COLMES 1,666,000
FNC GRETA 1,494,000
FNC HUME 1,341,000
FNC SHEP SMITH 1,215,000
CNN KING 885,000
CNN DOBBS 702,000
CNN BLITZER 592,000
CNN COOPER 590,000
CNN ZAHN 527,000
CNNHN GRACE 487,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 471,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 406,000

Last edited by jkays94; 05-24-2006 at 03:42 PM.
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  #37  
Old 05-24-2006, 03:43 PM
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alien2006 is on a distinguished road
Default Depends on which side of the bed Lou wakes up

... who to criticize for that day. His four favorties - India, China, Mexico and "this administration not doing anything"
Note these four favorites, every program will have one or more of the above.

But the one thing that really annoys the hell out of me is his really dumb polls. They are always biased to what he wants to proclaim - like 90% agree to this and 85% agree to this. Watch his polls regularly and you will understand.

Anyways, thats the last from me about this guy.
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  #38  
Old 05-24-2006, 04:32 PM
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Raju is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Communique
Raju, the unemployment is at 4.7%. That is good, but how about earning power and wage increases ? I hear all the time my friends report that they can no longer afford goods and services as they did five or four years ago. There are plenty of evidence that in many sectors wages have dropped or have stagnated. Is that indication of surplus pr shortage of workers ?

Regarding his idea of sending 15 millions of illegals out, that is not absurd. He never told he wanted to do it overnight. A gradual, slow deportation program yes, it would be probably the best way to handle this.

I am sorry if I look negative to you guys, but my goal is to be sincere and honest about facts here.
I think that wages have gone up drastically during the dotcom bubble and you should expect them to flatten for a few years. Also, the economy is coming out from a bust and that accounts to a little stagnation. It is simple man, the world also has to catch up. If you get the same job done for much less in coutries like China, India, Russia and romania, why do you think the wages will go up, unless there is a new technology, that absolutely needs cutting edge skills. This is the way it has been in ht past, this is the way it is in present and will be this way in future. The services and goods you are talking about will become more expensive if you want to send the undocumented workers out. And the wages may not go up that much because companies can get stuff done in other parts of the world. A reporter should talk about two sides of the issue and I have never seen Lou do that. I do not have the time/interest to find the transcripts but he had been offensive about H1s and I heard him say that H1's do not pay taxes, which is a blunder.

Last edited by Raju; 05-24-2006 at 04:36 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-24-2006, 04:40 PM
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Raju is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Communique
Nothing new. Of course the US needs to bring the bright and the best. Yes, I agree with you the US apparently doesn't have the necessary number of people with advanced degrees in science right now. I never told you to shut down the H1B or decrease the numbers. I am just saying, can people respect the other side and suggest more sensible mechanisms ? Can one understand that an automatic increase of 20% per year can cause hardship to citizens caught in a future and unexpected recession ? That's all I am saying.

Folks, this is what concerns me. We are all very educated people and we cannot have a decent conversation. Many in this thread gets angry at me. As Lou Dobbs says, that is shocking. :-)

Have a good one.

Communique
Hey do you that if something like that happens then Congress will decrease the numbers automatically
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  #40  
Old 05-24-2006, 09:17 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waitnwatch
Please spend some time on this website....browse around, get acquainted, find the right threads and you will automatically find your answers. There is no 1800 number to call for assistance here............
I agree. But lets not scare away people either by such open criticism and rudeness. If no one responds to such questions, then ppl will automatically start looking things up in this or other web-sites.

-R
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  #41  
Old 05-24-2006, 11:38 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajmirk
I agree. But lets not scare away people either by such open criticism and rudeness. If no one responds to such questions, then ppl will automatically start looking things up in this or other web-sites.

-R
you're right! I got a bit carried away given that the discussion in the thread was kind of intense at that moment. your point is taken.
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  #42  
Old 05-24-2006, 11:54 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Communique
Can one understand that an automatic increase of 20% per year can cause hardship to citizens caught in a future and unexpected recession ? That's all I am saying.

Folks, this is what concerns me. We are all very educated people and we cannot have a decent conversation. Many in this thread gets angry at me. As Lou Dobbs says, that is shocking. :-)

Communique
This is what I can tell you. Couple of my friends choose to go to China for job opportunitieis because that is where manufacturing base of USA is. For opportunities, Americans go to places like Dubai and Russia which are growth markets. In a global economy, job migration is common. It happens both ways - into USA and out of USA.

Lou Dobbs rants about protecting American jobs all the time. Where was he when this was happening from 1980's when blue collar jobs were being shifted to China? USA lost more jobs in manufacturing than in IT outsourcing. His rants bring a sense of insecurity among American viewers, nothing else. The truth is Americans are most resourceful. When faced with a challenge, they find something within themselves, do something and earn a living for themselves. Current number of IT jobs in USA exceeds the number of jobs available during the peak of dotcom era. So infact the IT sector in USA expanded considerably from the dotcom time. Would not you expect a shortage of workers now, given low admission levels of US students in Technology fields? This shortage is part of the reason for expansion of outsourcing. And US universities fill their seats with bright foreign students, but there are not enough VISA numbers to keep these students here. Also USA population is aging rapidly. Part of the reason for nurses in high demand is this. More nurses needed to take care of patients, but not enough people in the profession.

Congress cut down the VISA numbers after the dotcom bust to 65,000 from the height of 195,000.

As for the salary stagnation, outsourcing is definitely one of the reasons. Big companies outsource their work to a cheaper place, and because of their presence in that country, offset offshoring costs against local revenue in that place, there by reduce the tax exposure in USA. This is a double advantage for them. Hence more inclination for outsourcing.
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  #43  
Old 05-25-2006, 07:57 AM
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learning01 is on a distinguished road
Default One of the reasons for this backlog mess and ...

retrogression is there was no unified voice to atleast speak out, when the serious problems that the legal immigrants are facing was anticipated, write about these issues. Now we have one in IV.

The only problem in what you advocate is this: while each of us is free to speak as we like, that dilutes our focus and produces a gaggle of voices. This results in lack of attention and gradual erosion of the effort. We don't have a full time paid director / administrators to brings things to order. All work here is at IV is voluntary. That's why we need to stop people from promoting Lou Dobbs. Remember, one swallow doen't make a summer.

Also remember: these channels have (or may have) an hidden agenda. Rather than pure news and opinion disseminating channels, they are jockeying to be a opinion influencing channel. That's where they fail; when they can't convince people (how can you, in a few minutes of news coverage), they confuse poeple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _m3_rulz_
Please do not focus on what Lou Dobbs is saying. If you think this is something that may bring harm to our goals just ignore it. No reason to get rude. Everyone has a right to express his/her opinion. We are in America so we can speak freely.
It is all fine. Whatever others do say there is a reason behind it. It is either to support or not to support whatevere is being discussed. Some are very good at chosing the words to blur their intentions. Be smart! Read and conclude. Reply without showing your emotions as those may use against us. This is as simple as that.

regards
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  #44  
Old 05-25-2006, 01:45 PM
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araj_98 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by learning01
retrogression is there was no unified voice to atleast speak out, when the serious problems that the legal immigrants are facing was anticipated, write about these issues. Now we have one in IV.

The only problem in what you advocate is this: while each of us is free to speak as we like, that dilutes our focus and produces a gaggle of voices. This results in lack of attention and gradual erosion of the effort. We don't have a full time paid director / administrators to brings things to order. All work here is at IV is voluntary. That's why we need to stop people from promoting Lou Dobbs. Remember, one swallow doen't make a summer.

Also remember: these channels have (or may have) an hidden agenda. Rather than pure news and opinion disseminating channels, they are jockeying to be a opinion influencing channel. That's where they fail; when they can't convince people (how can you, in a few minutes of news coverage), they confuse poeple.
http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html...ls_article.htm

February 23, 2006
Watch Video of Author Tom Friedman's Lecture

Please note: You will need Quicktime 7 to view this video.

BTW People who support Lou and his view are as ignorant and xenophobic as he is.

Communique - Your posts dont suggest that you are an immigrant or even pro-immigrant.

Last edited by araj_98; 05-25-2006 at 02:16 PM.
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  #45  
Old 05-25-2006, 02:45 PM
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dartkid31 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by araj_98
http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html...ls_article.htm

February 23, 2006
Watch Video of Author Tom Friedman's Lecture

Please note: You will need Quicktime 7 to view this video.

BTW People who support Lou and his view are as ignorant and xenophobic as he is.

Communique - Your posts dont suggest that you are an immigrant or even pro-immigrant.
agreed. I think most people on this site have also noticed that.
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