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  #31  
Old 06-17-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gvenkat View Post
Bingo. We should stop calling them "Dreamers" we are the "DREAMERS". We dream of a GC and it has turned in to a nightmare.
Where is the nightmare? How many people are having nightmares?
Let us see it? All we see is posts. Posts need to translate into action. Unless people lose sleep over greencards we should not expect relief.
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Last edited by pappu; 06-17-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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  #32  
Old 06-17-2012, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by njboy View Post
I didn't say anything about admin fix or law..there are N acts pending that remove country quota, just one phone call from Obama will resurrect those acts. He was holding this hostage because he wanted to pass Dream along with this high skilled relief law, but he realized this is not going to happen. So using executive power is akin to admitting defeat. A STEM act has already gotten bipartisan support in the congress. Remember that Obama and Romney will have to go with begging bowls to multinational corporations soon.
Look, we agree not losing hope. But we disagree with this assertion that the President by himself can eliminate the backlog. And that lawyer of yours do not have any real information to support this notion that President Obama can fix the backlog all by himself. Backlog fix will need the act of Congress. You can start this argument that if President can pass executive order for the undocumented, then why not for us. This argument is not going anywhere in the real world. No executive order can fix the backlog. But that doesn't mean that there is no hope.

Backlog is a complicated problem, and your lawyer is telling you what you want to hear, providing you a simple solution to a complicated problem.

At this time, the fact is, none of the STEM or Startup bills are not going anywhere in this Congress. This is a hard fact. As we have been telling folks for over an year, there is one and only one bill that can pass in this Congress and that bill is HR3012. You can continue to ignore what we have been saying all along but that won't change facts on the ground. And, HR3012 is possible because of the real grassroots efforts of members of IV, and not because of some lawyer or group of lawyers having some inside information. None of these lawyers have any information. And yes, we do know a lot more than these lawyers that everyone is quoting all day along, which we believe is a sign of ignorance and naivety about the process.

We believe that President Obama wants to fix the backlog and his heart is in the right place, but he cannot do so by himself without the act of Congress. If a phone call from the President would have resolve the differences on HR3012, then this all would have resolved many months back. It will take some level of maturity to grasp this fact, and if you don't like anyone tell you this fact, then simply ignore this post and do what is best for you.
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  #33  
Old 06-17-2012, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bibliophile2020 View Post
Hey Pappu,
How about inviting all soon to be legal 800,000++ DREAMER'S or whatever they call them on to IV? We will sign them up for monthly contributions and we can all get GREENED together.
High-skilled immigrants need to carry their own water. They cannot expect to hire DREAMers to work for them and also pay for their the work they do to benefit High-skilled immigrants. And all this while high skilled immigrants live a life of luxury, claim to drive good cars, earn well and show that are spoiled brats. It is shocking, but some mavericks have gone ahead and said such kind of immature statements in the past in offices. Such narrow thinking has hurt this community a lot. This is why we spent hours talking to people and explaining how system works , politics of the issue, and how they need to present their issue. High-skilled immigrants have to lose their sleep and get desperate. Change has to come from each one of us. If we are all happy without greencards, then their is no point claiming we are going through a nightmare and our lives are screwed up without greencards.
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  #34  
Old 06-17-2012, 06:34 PM
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See , the beauty of saying such baseless things is no one is going to ask them or hold them accountable when nothing happens. But when something does happen, they think my lawyer said that will happen and it did happen. People don't have the time or incentive or ability to research/understand the facts.
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Originally Posted by Administrator2 View Post
Look, we agree not losing hope. But we disagree with this assertion that the President by himself can eliminate the backlog. And that lawyer of yours do not have any real information to support this notion that President Obama can fix the backlog all by himself. Backlog fix will need the act of Congress. You can start this argument that if President can pass executive order for the undocumented, then why not for us. This argument is not going anywhere in the real world. No executive order can fix the backlog. But that doesn't mean that there is no hope.

Backlog is a complicated problem, and your lawyer is telling you what you want to hear, providing you a simple solution to a complicated problem.

At this time, the fact is, none of the STEM or Startup bills are not going anywhere in this Congress. This is a hard fact. As we have been telling folks for over an year, there is one and only one bill that can pass in this Congress and that bill is HR3012. You can continue to ignore what we have been saying all along but that won't change facts on the ground. And, HR3012 is possible because of the real grassroots efforts of members of IV, and not because of some lawyer or group of lawyers having some inside information. None of these lawyers have any information. And yes, we do know a lot more than these lawyers that everyone is quoting all day along, which we believe is a sign of ignorance and naivety about the process.

We believe that President Obama wants to fix the backlog and his heart is in the right place, but he cannot do so by himself without the act of Congress. If a phone call from the President would have resolve the differences on HR3012, then this all would have resolved many months back. It will take some level of maturity to grasp this fact, and if you don't like anyone tell you this fact, then simply ignore this post and do what is best for you.
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  #35  
Old 06-17-2012, 07:27 PM
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Admin,
I express my humble gratitude at you taking time and replying to my post. It was a known fact that Obama had to do something to get hispanic votes. Now immigration is always a thorny issue among all working class people of all races. No matter what people say, most of them don't like others coming in and taking their (perceived) opportunities. Now many things have affected Obama in the past year. Things like how Steve Jobs criticized him in his book for not giving greencard for STEM graduates. Issuing an executive order means circumventing the due process. I don't believe Obama will issue another executive order on immigration. But the game is rigged. Do you remember how easily the STEM OPT period got increased by 17 months? This took a act of the congress too. Compared to us, the STEM students on F1 don't have any resources, yet this bill sailed through. It was like a mob hit. Everyone knew what had to be done..It was because the lobbying was done by universities and blue chip companies.
George Bush (senior), on Dec 2nd 1989 gave 80,000 Chinese students and their families green cards to protest Tianenmen . He also gave green card to any Chinese who arrived in US before 1989. Needless to say these were extenuating circumstances to which we have no parallel.
Now people like Fareed Zakaria are making the right noises. Moving from a family based green card to a merit based one will be a monumental shift in US policy which is not going to happen anytime soon. But Obama will throw a few bones in that direction because he needs to show he did something that is not negative(deportation) on immigration. The DREAM executive order will be one thing he can showcase. He can also showcase if he does something for STEM students.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator2 View Post
Look, we agree not losing hope. But we disagree with this assertion that the President by himself can eliminate the backlog. And that lawyer of yours do not have any real information to support this notion that President Obama can fix the backlog all by himself. Backlog fix will need the act of Congress. You can start this argument that if President can pass executive order for the undocumented, then why not for us. This argument is not going anywhere in the real world. No executive order can fix the backlog. But that doesn't mean that there is no hope.

Backlog is a complicated problem, and your lawyer is telling you what you want to hear, providing you a simple solution to a complicated problem.

At this time, the fact is, none of the STEM or Startup bills are not going anywhere in this Congress. This is a hard fact. As we have been telling folks for over an year, there is one and only one bill that can pass in this Congress and that bill is HR3012. You can continue to ignore what we have been saying all along but that won't change facts on the ground. And, HR3012 is possible because of the real grassroots efforts of members of IV, and not because of some lawyer or group of lawyers having some inside information. None of these lawyers have any information. And yes, we do know a lot more than these lawyers that everyone is quoting all day along, which we believe is a sign of ignorance and naivety about the process.

We believe that President Obama wants to fix the backlog and his heart is in the right place, but he cannot do so by himself without the act of Congress. If a phone call from the President would have resolve the differences on HR3012, then this all would have resolved many months back. It will take some level of maturity to grasp this fact, and if you don't like anyone tell you this fact, then simply ignore this post and do what is best for you.
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  #36  
Old 06-18-2012, 01:29 PM
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Theoretically, can Obama as a President do anything that can provide relief to EB backlog ? If yes, what is it ? Understand that it's Congress's job to enact law or modify law on it, but does the President have any capability to do anything in this regard.

So all along the DREAMERS knew that Obama can solve their problem with an executive order ?

Are there any rules surrounding how long Grassley can sit on HR3012 ? Is Majority/Minority leader of Senate responsible to answer a Senator's questions in a timely fashion ?
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  #37  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pappu View Post
It is impractical to expect an executive order for legals. We need to ask ourselves what have done till now to deserve an executive order. We have to closely look at all the advocacy efforts dream advocates have done till now. We as a community have not even done a small fraction of that. It will be a rude post to many but this is the bitter truth. All we see on forums is eb2 fighting with eb3 . Row fighting with india china etc etc. or people busy with tracking and just trying to figure out when their date will move. Some come to forum every 2 year when they have a question on EAD/AP. We cannot expect advocating and running a big campaign when hardly hundred two hundred contribute a mere twenty five each month. Laws do not get passed by sending spam emails and writing posts on the forum. It needs hard work. Just to give an example 2 days ago there was a post from IV to ask for process issues for our meeting with USCIS. We got tons of ideas from everyone. Everyone wanted fixes from their point of view and some even rediculed IV . Then after the meeting update we posted asking someone to volunteer to take up the ideas and work with us to get fixes done. This needs real work and spending man hours away from work, family etc. not a single person responded till now from the main forum. See what dream advocates do first and compare ourself. Do we have the courage to even speak to media like them? We get a lot of media requests and find it hard to get people to speak to media. Those who gather courage ask themselves to be anonymous. When illegals can walk on the street in front of cameras and speak without fear why can't we? Dream advocates have spent millions till now and they do not fight among themselves. Here we fight for twenty five and become an anti when our post is deleted. Dream folks have gathered lot of support from the Hispanics settled here. How much have we done? Many of us have our relatives settled here. Have we even spoken to them and gathered support? How many times have we gone to the political org meetings of our community and spoken to them asking for support. This is not the job of 5 - 10 people of iv but of each one of us. How many of us are still active after getting greencard. On the contraray the dream advocates consists of a lot of citizens and greencard holders. How much have we done till now to understand the political process and get involved? How many times have each one of us visited lawmaker offices. Do we visit them each month or each quarter when the lawmaker is in town? Let us ask this sincere question ourselves before we blame dreamers. There are many examples of comparison that can be given. Unless each of us do our part is unreasonable to expect an executive order. Blame is to be found within before blaming undocumented.
What you said, about making contribution and getting support, I think, people here are doing in their capacity and within the time available. I agree with you completely that more support is needed (no doubt about it), but following are some notable points to consider when you compare dreamers with legals ..

(1) Dreams could come in front of camera without fear, as most of them have nothing to loose, if things go wrong - by nothing to loose, I mean, not much to loose .. Not sure, if a dreamer is illegal in country, does he or she have a decent valid job to loose, if coming in front of camera could bite him/her?

(2) How many dreamers have full-time jobs ? Percentage wise ? If there are many doing odd / random jobs, and going through harsh reality, it is obvious that they would have more time to spend and more eagerness to spend such time.

(3) Hispanic population have been close to (border-wise) US unlike some of the retrogatted immigrant's nation, whose national and country people are far away (That land of "Far Far Away ... ) .... Yes, proximity makes difference .. politically and culturally ..

(4) Compare overall hispanic population with that of retrogatted immigrant's nation's population .. Hispanics who are citizen/GC are more here ..

(5) Just looking at Indian communities -- what you think (personally ask yourself) -- how many Indians (even if they are relatives) would be willing put forward their time to meet for such an event. It is surely worth trying and everyone of us should ask their support, but it might be helpful to be prepared with alternative approach if this approach has not worked historically. Most Hispanic connect as a group by religion / culture -- Retrogatted legals are different completely -- nations are different, religion within nations are different etc .. -- it is much more bigger stalemate to overcome this gap and to communicate and unite together.

Law should be there, to protect legals and have fair shot for everyone .. It should create same level playing field .. Ideally AILA should take the lead to fix immigration system but we all could see the reasons (or benefits) for their non-action ..
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  #38  
Old 06-18-2012, 08:26 PM
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It is highly unlikely that Obama will issue an executive order..so debating it's constitutional merit is a moot point.
He made half hearted efforts to pass DREAM but by issuing Executive Order he can take full credit for this. He can say I did this. This is the reason Republicans are fuming. They can no longer get brownie points (no pun intended, I'm Indian myself) from Hispanics for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flthere View Post
Theoretically, can Obama as a President do anything that can provide relief to EB backlog ? If yes, what is it ? Understand that it's Congress's job to enact law or modify law on it, but does the President have any capability to do anything in this regard.

So all along the DREAMERS knew that Obama can solve their problem with an executive order ?

Are there any rules surrounding how long Grassley can sit on HR3012 ? Is Majority/Minority leader of Senate responsible to answer a Senator's questions in a timely fashion ?
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  #39  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:37 AM
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It's incidents like this that have brought me to a point where I don't actually care about the green card any more. This is all happening at a moment when H1/L1 rejections are pretty high. I just have a feeling that it won't happen for me. And I'm Ok with it. Count me out of the rat race. I will just stay as long as I can without hassle like the Indians in gulf. Even when I talk to Americans about it, many of them hold the view that legal workers are protected and hence its OK to stall their cases but illegals must be attended first since they want to be
American and they are in a worse state. Then there are Americans who basically don't want any immigration - legal or illegal. I'm sick and tired of the same old picture being repeated over and over.

They are never going to push for legal immigration. This is all about getting Hispanic votes. Obama courted female/college going kids votes (refer to sandra fluke case), gay votes, african american votes, now hispanic votes. Plain and simple. Too many Americans have white guilt to say it like it is.
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  #40  
Old 06-20-2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CPTproblem View Post
It's incidents like this that have brought me to a point where I don't actually care about the green card any more. This is all happening at a moment when H1/L1 rejections are pretty high. I just have a feeling that it won't happen for me. And I'm Ok with it. Count me out of the rat race. I will just stay as long as I can without hassle like the Indians in gulf. Even when I talk to Americans about it, many of them hold the view that legal workers are protected and hence its OK to stall their cases but illegals must be attended first since they want to be
American and they are in a worse state. Then there are Americans who basically don't want any immigration - legal or illegal. I'm sick and tired of the same old picture being repeated over and over.

They are never going to push for legal immigration. This is all about getting Hispanic votes. Obama courted female/college going kids votes (refer to sandra fluke case), gay votes, african american votes, now hispanic votes. Plain and simple. Too many Americans have white guilt to say it like it is.
Unlike expats in Gulf, the only issue is that you are getting taxed like citizens but get no benefits.
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  #41  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by go_guy123 View Post
Unlike expats in Gulf, the only issue is that you are getting taxed like citizens but get no benefits.
It is a price of entry that we pay. USA is the best country in the world and there is no denying the fact. If 1 thousand Indians go back there are 10 thousand indians willing to come here. They will be willing to pay from their pocket extra to come here. Likewise it is the same for all developing countries. Only a handful countries you can count on fingers really have people not so much interested in immigrating. Otherwise almost all 150 countries want to come here. Imagine if all Pakistanis want to come to india and there is a backlog. There is a high unemployment rate in India. Will you as a Senator not hold a bill in nation's interest? I would not blame the Senator. He is a patriot. Blame the system that encourages lot of people to come here on H1b and other visas that have no limit. And then when all of them apply for greencards there is a backlog. Laws need to be created to only allow best and the brightest if they are coming on high skill visas. And those professions must have a genuine shortage of people. What is happening is people coming through consulting companies on low salaries and damaging American businesses. This has created negative vibes against immigrants and there is a hold on the good bill that is about fairness in the system.
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  #42  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by njboy View Post
It is highly unlikely that Obama will issue an executive order..so debating it's constitutional merit is a moot point.
He made half hearted efforts to pass DREAM but by issuing Executive Order he can take full credit for this. He can say I did this. This is the reason Republicans are fuming. They can no longer get brownie points (no pun intended, I'm Indian myself) from Hispanics for this.
Hispanics do work that no American wants to do or is not available to do. We do work that all Americans want to do. We make more money than national average for a graduate. We do well and grow. If tomorrow there are no farm workers , janitors , gardeners, construction workers the country will not survive on its own. These workers are critical to the country. But if all programmers in backlog go back to their country, nobody will care. There will be double the amount of programmers willing to come here knowing fully that greencard is difficult to get and their wife cannot work on H1B visa.
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  #43  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:31 AM
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Sucks that so much of the national immigration debate focuses on issues of those who have broken immigration laws while little or no attention is given to the issues of those who have followed them.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:54 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by njboy View Post
Don't get me wrong, I am not passing any judgements on any particular group, I am just saying that high skilled immigrants as a group should not be thrown under the bus just because AILA lawyers can get H1-B filing fees every 3 years as long as we don't get a greencard, or just because there is no significant vote bank of Indians and Chinese who care.
Hmm, I just now read that Asians are the fastest growing ethnicity and giving below the link. With the growing number of Asians now running for various posts in politics growing as well, I do not think that we do not have significant vote bank.

It is only a matter of time to explain the GC mess and get their support. There is a lot of different when I write to a legislator as a GC card holder instead of a citizen. Is there a campaign targeting this group to help?

Thanks
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  #45  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:01 PM
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Priority Date
:
Jun-03
Category
:
EB3
I140 Mailed Date
:
10/22/2006
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India
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I-485
I485 Mailed Date
:
07/12/2007
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What Admin and Pappu are saying is absolutely right!. I have been to my house rep's office atleast 12 times- since 2007. I know I could have done more- gone atleast 6 times a year.
I have excellent relationship with the staff there- and they understand the issues and know the bills. My rep is democrat and supports most of the bills that IV supports.

Right from the day when IV asked us to contact our senators and house reps- I have been going to the office- In 2007/08 IV also provided with a PDF/SLide show presentation. IV prepped us on what to talk and what not to.

Anyways, I know that it is extremely frustrating when I am the only one that has been going to their office- and talking to them. When I talk to other people that are stuck to come with me- they sulk/they think it is not important and get lazy- they dont want to do the work -

when I go to the lawmakers office and tell the staff about EB backlogs - They ask how many of 'you' are out there-
500,000 people are stuck and 30,000 are in the state and a lot of them are in her constituency- but the staff wonders if I am the only one that is making it sound like a lot of people are affected. Because apart from me -their office has seen no one else come in to complain about backlogs.

One day this spring- one of the staff members actually asked me- are you sure there are a lot of people affected.

That is what needs to be done- each one needs to spend half hour every month - drive down to the office - talk to the rep/senator. If there are 1000's that go every month - then we can expect something.

Apart from that we need the money and the media interface.

Dreamers have done exactly that- they have been able to build support- because they were persistent and committed.
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