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  #16  
Old 04-26-2010, 04:51 PM
h1techSlave h1techSlave is offline
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Default see how they are twisting the facts

I have read the article in your post and am amazed at how they are twisting the facts.

The poor uneducated black community is the most effected by illegal immigration. Almost all the jobs that illegals are currently holding will go to the "ppl usually at the lowest end of the econmic/social ladder", if the illegals were to leave the country.

An average illegal is not taking the jobs from you or me; he is taking it from an uneducated black youth; she is stealing it from a black mother who did not finish high school. And make no mistake, the illegal immigrant himself/herself is a victim here. The real winners in the illegal immigration story is the employers (who gets cheap labor and does not have to pay taxes) and the lawyers who basically wants a screwed up society.

Now tell me, whom should I support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzibub View Post
I think that you're not understanding the gravity of this law in terms of the US context (History and culture).
This post describes it better than I can: "...who are you better than?" - ADVrider
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2010, 05:06 PM
eastindia eastindia is offline
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Default

Undocumented are doing Jobs that nobody is willing to do.

Some citizen people are happy to live on social security and food stamps that they not want to do any work.

So undocumented are not stealing any job. If they do not work, then you will not get vegetables on your table or get your lawn mowed.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2010, 06:00 PM
Sachin_Stock Sachin_Stock is offline
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Default

Thats right. Legal immigrants have nothing to worry about. Its for those 'undocumented' ones, who don't even have a document that would justify their stay in here.

However we do have several attributes that doesn't even probably necessitate carrying a document at all times. We got SSN, drivers-Id, and if the cops give me couple of mins, I can go home and get my documents as well. I refuse to carry my documents everywhere though.

Thats just stupid.
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2010, 10:28 PM
alterego alterego is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khodalmd View Post
I agree.
I think no one can misuse law. Police will have clear list of all approved documents to prove legality. I don't know, Why legal immigrant worried about this law?? I don't mind police pull my car everyday and ask for legal document. I will show him my document with smiling face.
After all this law is going to protect all citizens, Permanent residents, and legal immigrants.

Recently Walmart in my town started to check receipt of every customer going out. Every time I a showing receipt. Why should I worried??
Shoplifter should worried not me !!!
That is absolutely not correct. Here we are leaving to the subjectivity of the police officer who he/she will pull aside and ask for legal document.
Quite clearly a latino person will be the more likely to be pulled aside. In your Walmart scenario they are checking everyone.
This is absolutely a law that will divide the community and cause resentment and cause some citizens and residents to feel second rate.

It sound to me like some are willing to accept the "we'll just put the noose around your neck, we won't hang you" statement.

This is discriminatory and another way to enforce the laws needs to be found. How about heavy penalties on all employers of illegal immigrants. That would hit all of the righteous preachers whose baby sitters, maids, gardeners etc are these illegal immigrants. Only when those folks are penalized heavily will I see it as proper enforcement and not hate mongering.
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  #20  
Old 04-27-2010, 11:31 AM
whattodo21 whattodo21 is offline
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Default

Scott Blakeman: Crackdown on Ignorance Should Target Arizona Lawmakers

The Arizona immigration bill signed into law yesterday almost makes the stupidity and vileness of the "Obama is a Socialist, Communist, Nazi Fascist" signs at Tea Party rallies, and the mind-blowingly vapid and mean ramblings of Michele Bachmann ("We have a gangster government in Washington") pale in comparison. Those are just disgusting words. What Arizona has done is a disgusting deed.

So until Arizona repeals this un-American bill, the closest I'm going to get to the Grand Canyon is looking at a photo of it in an old National Geographic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by h1techSlave View Post
I have read the article in your post and am amazed at how they are twisting the facts.

The poor uneducated black community is the most effected by illegal immigration. Almost all the jobs that illegals are currently holding will go to the "ppl usually at the lowest end of the econmic/social ladder", if the illegals were to leave the country.

An average illegal is not taking the jobs from you or me; he is taking it from an uneducated black youth; she is stealing it from a black mother who did not finish high school. And make no mistake, the illegal immigrant himself/herself is a victim here. The real winners in the illegal immigration story is the employers (who gets cheap labor and does not have to pay taxes) and the lawyers who basically wants a screwed up society.

Now tell me, whom should I support?
and yes I agree the crack down has to be on the employers who exploit the illegals instead of the immigrants. So h1techslave - you should be supporting laws that crack down on employees who hire the illegals and not the illegals themselves.
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  #21  
Old 04-27-2010, 12:01 PM
kumar1305 kumar1305 is offline
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Default This is what WallStreetJournal says

Congressional Democrats have no intention of enacting serious immigration reform before November. President Obama is surely playing politics with the situation in Arizona for gain in the fall. He'd like to pick a fight and define Republicans as anti-Hispanic going into the election, without having to propose anything substantive.

We'd support a national immigration reform that was realistic about the fact that most of these are economic migrants who will find a way to come here in any case if this is where the jobs are. The most effective way to reduce illegal entries and defuse these tensions is to expand legal channels, including guest worker programs. This would reduce illegal immigration and free up security resources to threats from drug gangs and the like.

But so long as Republicans, Democrats and Mr. Obama mainly view immigration as an electoral weapon, the nation can expect more desperate laws like Arizona's.
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  #22  
Old 04-27-2010, 12:03 PM
h1techSlave h1techSlave is offline
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Default employer deterrent

Quote:
Originally Posted by whattodo21 View Post
and yes I agree the crack down has to be on the employers who exploit the illegals instead of the immigrants. So h1techslave - you should be supporting laws that crack down on employees who hire the illegals and not the illegals themselves.
The law has several provisions that are aimed at employers. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf. Section 5, 6, 7 and 8 specifically address these issues. That is why I feel like supporting this law. I am not thrilled at the other sections of law that simply target the individuals. May be there will be future amendments in the law to handle these issues.
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  #23  
Old 04-27-2010, 12:39 PM
gc28262 gc28262 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khodalmd View Post
I agree.
I think no one can misuse law. Police will have clear list of all approved documents to prove legality. I don't know, Why legal immigrant worried about this law?? I don't mind police pull my car everyday and ask for legal document. I will show him my document with smiling face.
After all this law is going to protect all citizens, Permanent residents, and legal immigrants.

Recently Walmart in my town started to check receipt of every customer going out. Every time I a showing receipt. Why should I worried??
Shoplifter should worried not me !!!
What if the walmart employee checking receipts at the exit doesn't understand what is written on the receipt or the significance of it. ?

Customs and Border Patrol ( CBP ) officers doesn't understand the significance many USCIS documents. Many of them doesn't understand what AOS status is. CBP is one department who is supposed to know all these details.

Then how do you expect a COP to understand the complications of different types of immigration documents ? Immigration is too complicated a subject to be dealt by COPS. Add to this officers who are racially inclined.

Do you still feel comfortable with this AZ law ?
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2010, 03:53 PM
gc28262 gc28262 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khodalmd View Post
I strongly believe this is the country of Law, justice, and human right. No one can unnecessary harass innocent. They will have list of all documents which prove the legality. There are several types of visas, travel documents, Green card etc, which permit any person inside the USA. There are several hundred international airports in this country. Millions of people enter here everyday. I haven't heard any of CBP officer not recognized any legal document. I traveled two time with Travel permit. It was easily recognize by foreign airport officials at Amsterdam, London, Mumbai, and Tokyo. They just asked me what is your status in USA? I replied; I am on AOS for Permanent Resident and here is my travel permit. That all.
If CBP officer don't understand green card or EAD or AOS receipt, he/she should be in big trouble! it is not our problem, it would be their problem. One can easily sue them.

Yes, I do comfortable with this law.
CBP officers at port of entry are relatively better informed since it is their job to screen passengers. That is not the case with CBP officers roaming around in border states.

H1B holders awaiting H1B extension:
Arizona's new 'papers, please' law may hurt H-1B workers - Computerworld

AOS status holders:
COP can verify AOS status only if he verifies it with USCIS or the applicant has an EAD. EAD is not a requirement for people on AOS, it is optional ( only needed if working).

Why should we be happy with more chains on us ?
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2010, 04:20 PM
ivgclive ivgclive is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khodalmd View Post
If CBP officer don't understand green card or EAD or AOS receipt, he/she should be in big trouble! it is not our problem, it would be their problem. One can easily sue them.
Yes, I do comfortable with this law.
Sue who? CBP?

May happen only if he/she lets you in.
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  #26  
Old 04-27-2010, 05:16 PM
h1b_forever h1b_forever is offline
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Default Lack of civil rights leadership?

Why dont we see reaction from many of the so called "Leaders" on this atrocity

Imagine if something similar was going to affect a different "group" of people
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  #27  
Old 04-27-2010, 06:40 PM
PavanV PavanV is offline
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Default

Khoda,

Lets say a person has a relative in emergency in the hospital which is 20 mi away, he is stopped once in a certain area in the suburb, he has all the papers, the cops takes 20min to check and then lets him go. Three signals later another cop suspecting him to be an illegal stops him and asks for papers, it takes 20 more minutes explaining to him that he was already pulled over just a few minutes ago, he say's he's sorry and lets him go, by the time he reaches the hospital it is too late.
For the next few months this person is stopped almost daily, however since he is legal , he shows his papers and explains it to him about his status. On a certain 'legal' immigration extension, his papers were late , although he is not out of status, he has no valid documents, he was pulled over driving on the highway and has been put in custody to be deported.

Now think about this, you say you are comfortable with the law ?, can you imagine yourself in a situation above ?, if you can, you need to join AZ government which thinks like you.







Quote:
Originally Posted by khodalmd View Post
I strongly believe this is the country of Law, justice, and human right. No one can unnecessary harass innocent. They will have list of all documents which prove the legality. There are several types of visas, travel documents, Green card etc, which permit any person inside the USA. There are several hundred international airports in this country. Millions of people enter here everyday. I haven't heard any of CBP officer not recognized any legal document. I traveled two time with Travel permit. It was easily recognize by foreign airport officials at Amsterdam, London, Mumbai, and Tokyo. They just asked me what is your status in USA? I replied; I am on AOS for Permanent Resident and here is my travel permit. That all.
If CBP officer don't understand green card or EAD or AOS receipt, he/she should be in big trouble! it is not our problem, it would be their problem. One can easily sue them.

Yes, I do comfortable with this law.

Last edited by PavanV; 04-27-2010 at 06:43 PM.
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  #28  
Old 04-27-2010, 09:17 PM
hoolahoous hoolahoous is offline
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Default

there were two previous issues which had unintended effects

1) some states enacted law to not give drivers licence to illegals. So far so good. However actual implementation caused issues to several H1b/EAD holders. and still does. for e.g. some states do not give DL for more than 6 months if your immigration documents does not have expiry date (AOS).
2) last economy stimulus package was meant for legals, but h1b's spouses got left out since they didn't have SSN even though they were legally in US.

As some people have pointed out, only USCIS and CPB probably know and understand all immigration rules/documents. it would be monumental to get whole police force educated up to that standards. Until then, lot of legal people might have to go through inconvenience (even may be jail time).
Even though intent of law is good, implementation has to be perfect.
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  #29  
Old 04-27-2010, 10:03 PM
gvenkat gvenkat is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PavanV View Post
Khoda,

Lets say a person has a relative in emergency in the hospital which is 20 mi away, he is stopped once in a certain area in the suburb, he has all the papers, the cops takes 20min to check and then lets him go. Three signals later another cop suspecting him to be an illegal stops him and asks for papers, it takes 20 more minutes explaining to him that he was already pulled over just a few minutes ago, he say's he's sorry and lets him go, by the time he reaches the hospital it is too late.
For the next few months this person is stopped almost daily, however since he is legal , he shows his papers and explains it to him about his status. On a certain 'legal' immigration extension, his papers were late , although he is not out of status, he has no valid documents, he was pulled over driving on the highway and has been put in custody to be deported.

Now think about this, you say you are comfortable with the law ?, can you imagine yourself in a situation above ?, if you can, you need to join AZ government which thinks like you.
Excellent Point. For all practical purposes, They could even stop you in the street and ask for these documents. This rule is as silly as it can get. What these idiots don't understand is Arizona was conquered by the USA from Mexico and there are going to be lot of Latinos who are as legal as any other citizen. They will surely feel discriminated. Imagine how would one feel in India if they start a rule in Say Delhi for all to carry docs to show your nationality.
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  #30  
Old 04-27-2010, 11:02 PM
h1techSlave h1techSlave is offline
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Default Imagine the person's relative was run over by an illegal with out a DL

Imagine the person's relative had been run over by an illegal with out a DL. That was why he/she is in the hospital. Then how would we feel about the law?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PavanV View Post
Khoda,

Lets say a person has a relative in emergency in the hospital which is 20 mi away, he is stopped once in a certain area in the suburb, he has all the papers, the cops takes 20min to check and then lets him go. Three signals later another cop suspecting him to be an illegal stops him and asks for papers, it takes 20 more minutes explaining to him that he was already pulled over just a few minutes ago, he say's he's sorry and lets him go, by the time he reaches the hospital it is too late.
For the next few months this person is stopped almost daily, however since he is legal , he shows his papers and explains it to him about his status. On a certain 'legal' immigration extension, his papers were late , although he is not out of status, he has no valid documents, he was pulled over driving on the highway and has been put in custody to be deported.

Now think about this, you say you are comfortable with the law ?, can you imagine yourself in a situation above ?, if you can, you need to join AZ government which thinks like you.
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