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  #61  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:36 PM
prinive prinive is offline
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Default ROW - Rest of World

ROW - Rest of World

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Originally Posted by chintu25 View Post
I apologize for my ignorance but
what is ROW ??
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  #62  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:47 PM
chintu25 chintu25 is offline
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Question

i see people making assumptions based on ROW..... Please explain how ROW dates affect India/China Dates ??
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  #63  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:06 PM
lazycis lazycis is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chintu25 View Post
I apologize for my ignorance but
what is ROW ??
A row — also called a record or tuple—represents a single, implicitly structured data item in a table (I think the discussion becomes too hot, time to cool down, folks. The solution is not to remove per country limits, but to increase EB quota or at least to recapture lost visa numbers. Fight for removing per country limits will divide IV and is very unlikely to achieve something.)
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  #64  
Old 02-13-2008, 12:05 AM
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Default Has USCIS finally begin to get it's act together??

Some of the events in the last week seem to indicate so ??

1. Writeoff FBI namechecks pending for > 180 Days
2. Moving EB3 dates in smaller increments . Eb3 India was moved by ~3 Months


Step 1 was crucial because this will enable USCIS to approve all the applications within 'Current Dates'. Atleast now, USCIS will know pretty clearly where they stand when they move the dates (in conjunction with DOS) , unlike last June fiasco.

Step 2 ; Moving the dates in reasonable increments indicates they do not want to loose control of approval process . Lot of 2003 /04 filers got GC's in last July at the cost 2001/2002 filers . It was obviously arbitrary once they made everything current and probably depended on how eager an officer was to grab those visa numbers for his /her cases. USCIS lost control over the process.


Regarding EB2 heart burn - Blame it on substitute filers, obviously most of the line breakers would have used EB2 rather than EB3. But I think eventually EB2 will get higher priority and move faster then EB3 once the Unused numbers from others categories gets distributed after June /July. Calm your nerves.


I only wish if they had streamlined the process in this fashion about 3-4 years back . We would have not lost 200,000 visas and most of the dates would have been current or at the most 2 years behind. Very reasonable.

Am I dreaming....has USCIS got it's act together??


I forget , IV was not around 3-4 years back.


But we cannot be too enthusiastic about these good news because unless those 200,000 numbers are recaptured the dates will soon get struck in near future .
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  #65  
Old 02-13-2008, 01:32 AM
lord_labaku lord_labaku is offline
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Default Why all this happened

Before the Y2K problem, the most common route for Indians to migrate to the US (EB category) was this -->

TOEFL
GRE
Admission into US university (most likely for masters)
Scholarship or loan
MS/Phd in US
Internship using OPT
Job/ H1

Since this involved multiple non trivial steps; the barrier for entry was pretty high that prevented mass migration.

There were procedural delays (in some states with a lot of Indian population ( oh yeah; labor certs used to take 3-5 years esp in California, Texas & Northeast; but you could get labor cert faster in south dakota or such less densely populated places; but once you hit the 485 stage, you were certain of a GC within a few months )

And then along with Y2K came TCS, Wipro, Infosys, & infinite other bodyshops that suddenly changed the equation. No need for TOEFL, GRE. No need to fight for scholarship; no need for TA. no need for RA; no need for MS; in a lot of cases, no need for even UG degree in computers/engg. The requirements ranged from having all 10 fingers in place to knowing the right people in the bodyshop company to land an assignment in the US. Once placed at a client site, it was just a matter of finding the right opportunity to get the client to sponsor your H1. I am sure there were a lot other ways the H1 & L1 visas were abused.

So the situation changed from just procedural delays to procedural delays + extra influx of Indians due to H1/L1 visa misuse.

Ofcourse, we can only blame the inefficiencies of the USCIS/INS/DOL system & silently turn the other way when malpractices & visa abuse were rampant (I guess still is) in the IT bodyshop industry.

I am sure this rant will seem extremely prejudicial. But just for a slight moment; think about why all this happened.
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  #66  
Old 02-13-2008, 02:15 AM
CADude CADude is offline
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Lightbulb supply demand

it's classic problem of supply demand and least resistance path.

USCIS provides 3K/each category Visa# per country. What ever USCIS will do you can't fit 200K application in 9K/annum visa#.

Last 3 years(since dec 2005) - EB3 India PD is beyond May 08 2001 only for three months and EB2 is enjoying the benefits of GC. Anyone noticed. NONE. So what happened, many EB3 choosen for convert to EB2 path. Now EB2 India is U so many guys degree with PhD, etc trying for EB1. It human nature and nothing wrong with it. Everyone wants GC ASAP.

So bottomline, Demand is very high compare to Supply. unless USCIS get significant visa# nothing will change.
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  #67  
Old 02-13-2008, 02:23 AM
abhijitp abhijitp is offline
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuhelica2000 View Post
Per country limit applies to every country in exactly the same way. It doesn't discriminate between Chad or China. So, how is it discrimination? And think about it- in Olympics soccer/basketball every country can send only one team. Should China and India be allowed to send more teams since they have a larger population? We should try to increase the number of GCs.
Do not evade the question, is it okay to limit the number of gold medals per country to 7% of all? Talk about athletics or swimming, not soccer. Do you believe there are "too many" swimmers from Australia or the USA in every Olympics? It just does not seem right... the quota system kills competitive spirit.

As Logiclife said in his post, EB GC inherited country caps from Family Based GC program. They are inappropriate in an EB GC scenario, and should be removed, that's it!
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  #68  
Old 02-13-2008, 02:25 AM
abhijitp abhijitp is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JunRN View Post
I am not saying "C" nor am I saying "July 2007 VB". I am talking about "June 2007 VB". It is just a matter of time when we can see the VB back to June 2007 figure again.

I can assure you that I have done my part without telling anyone. I am a silent doer.
But even that is not a possibility this year, IMHO.
Thanks for your efforts!
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  #69  
Old 02-13-2008, 02:45 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijitp View Post
Do not evade the question, is it okay to limit the number of gold medals per country to 7% of all? Talk about athletics or swimming, not soccer. Do you believe there are "too many" swimmers from Australia or the USA in every Olympics? It just does not seem right... the quota system kills competitive spirit.
Ethnicity has nothing to do with skill level. Consider this also, if no other countries come close to the 7% limit, but India and China are maxed out. Guess who loses just because of an arbitrary limit? Guess where those unused greencards go?

They go to a pile of greencards, left unused and wasted. Wash, rinse, repeat the same cycle year on year. June 07 will be a looooooong way away (if you are from a severely retrogressed country), don't kid yourself.

btw... i was agreeing with abhijitp.
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  #70  
Old 02-13-2008, 10:06 AM
lazycis lazycis is offline
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Default

I agree that quota system is cumbersome. It would've been much easier just to have one bucket. But I fail to see how it is discriminatory when every coutry gets an equal piece of the pie. It is a classic supply and demand issue, but it's not a discrimination. Consider also the fact that GC is a grace not a right. "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?"
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  #71  
Old 02-13-2008, 10:11 AM
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Default

I think unused other country quota is used for oversubscribed countries like India and china in the last quarter. If that is true then even removing country quota will not make much difference for Eb3. Now waiting time is 7 years. It will be 5 years for all the countries. When they remove country quota persons from countries like Europe may lose interest in applying gc as they may think is not worth for them to apply and wait 5 years or more as there is not much difference in lifestyle between US and Europe. I doubt US will remove country cap. But we never know as world changes fast nowadays.Anyhow country quota is not correct and it is similar to reservation in India. If reservation concept is correct then country quota is correct as every country in world get benefit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin View Post
Ethnicity has nothing to do with skill level. Consider this also, if no other countries come close to the 7% limit, but India and China are maxed out. Guess who loses just because of an arbitrary limit? Guess where those unused greencards go?

They go to a pile of greencards, left unused and wasted. Wash, rinse, repeat the same cycle year on year. June 07 will be a looooooong way away (if you are from a severely retrogressed country), don't kid yourself.

btw... i was agreeing with abhijitp.
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  #72  
Old 02-13-2008, 11:02 AM
grupak grupak is offline
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Default Foget discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazycis View Post
I agree that quota system is cumbersome. It would've been much easier just to have one bucket. But I fail to see how it is discriminatory when every coutry gets an equal piece of the pie. It is a classic supply and demand issue, but it's not a discrimination. Consider also the fact that GC is a grace not a right. "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?"
Forget discrimination, unfairness, etc.

First, everyone agrees that IV is working to remove backlog in the employment-based GC.

Then just removing the country cap is not going to help as there isn't enough visa to go around. Second, just increasing the visa numbers is not going to help without removing/significantly increasing the country cap as most employment-based GC demands are from a few countries.

IV is not the place to argue about 'us' and 'them' in EB GC. IV is to help all EB GC without discrimination based on country of birth, national origin, etc., so IV fights for (1) increasing GC numbers and (2) removing cap/significantly increasing cap.

There is no way around it if we want to remove backlog in EB GC.
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  #73  
Old 02-13-2008, 11:06 AM
kuhelica2000 kuhelica2000 is offline
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Default Couldn't agree more

I couldn't agree more with you. The limited number of GC is definitely a critical factor. But we have contributed to this mess ourselves. Look what happened with EB2 India. Did India started producing EB2 talents overnight? No; rather we started polishing our resumes with inflated years of experience and job description so that we can apply to EB2. The system is too liberal and based on trust. If employers start scrutinizing resumes and certificates a lot of applicants will simply drop off from the GC queue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_labaku View Post
Before the Y2K problem, the most common route for Indians to migrate to the US (EB category) was this -->

TOEFL
GRE
Admission into US university (most likely for masters)
Scholarship or loan
MS/Phd in US
Internship using OPT
Job/ H1

Since this involved multiple non trivial steps; the barrier for entry was pretty high that prevented mass migration.

There were procedural delays (in some states with a lot of Indian population ( oh yeah; labor certs used to take 3-5 years esp in California, Texas & Northeast; but you could get labor cert faster in south dakota or such less densely populated places; but once you hit the 485 stage, you were certain of a GC within a few months )

And then along with Y2K came TCS, Wipro, Infosys, & infinite other bodyshops that suddenly changed the equation. No need for TOEFL, GRE. No need to fight for scholarship; no need for TA. no need for RA; no need for MS; in a lot of cases, no need for even UG degree in computers/engg. The requirements ranged from having all 10 fingers in place to knowing the right people in the bodyshop company to land an assignment in the US. Once placed at a client site, it was just a matter of finding the right opportunity to get the client to sponsor your H1. I am sure there were a lot other ways the H1 & L1 visas were abused.

So the situation changed from just procedural delays to procedural delays + extra influx of Indians due to H1/L1 visa misuse.

Ofcourse, we can only blame the inefficiencies of the USCIS/INS/DOL system & silently turn the other way when malpractices & visa abuse were rampant (I guess still is) in the IT bodyshop industry.

I am sure this rant will seem extremely prejudicial. But just for a slight moment; think about why all this happened.
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  #74  
Old 02-13-2008, 11:16 AM
NKR NKR is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuhelica2000 View Post
I couldn't agree more with you. The limited number of GC is definitely a critical factor. But we have contributed to this mess ourselves. Look what happened with EB2 India. Did India started producing EB2 talents overnight? No; rather we started polishing our resumes with inflated years of experience and job description so that we can apply to EB2. The system is too liberal and based on trust. If employers start scrutinizing resumes and certificates a lot of applicants will simply drop off from the GC queue.
I do not fully agree with you. There could be inflated years on a resume but for EB2 one needs to provide experience letters showing five plus years experience. Not many companies give out false information in the experience letters.
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  #75  
Old 02-13-2008, 11:21 AM
chintu25 chintu25 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekm1309 View Post
Agreed this is discrimination, what stops us from fighting this discrimination using legal class action lawsuit? Is it the money required or did a lawsuit fail earlier that inhibits us to file class action lawsuit?

I agree with some senior members when they say that no one individual will come forward for the lawsuit . And I ask why should they ??

And I think, even if one single or 2-3 people do come forward it will not be possible.

This is the reason we have forums like our IV so that all can come together and take a decisive step together
.

Who can stop IV to file a lawsuit USCIS ? NO ONE

Many members went on blabbering about how long the process is and how expensive it is ... REMINDER if we can come together and collect upwards of 35k FOR "Lobbying Efforts" we can definitely collect funds for a lawsuit.

Some one here rightly said ...If we are retrogessed and there is a queue ..Is it because of you or me ?? NO it is due to the inefficiency of the USCIS.


NO ROAD IS EASY IN THIS BATTLE..... AND ALL OPTIONS SHOULD BE EXPLORED


Again , I want to reiterate , I think if IV core takes lead...hires a good attorney ....we will have funds for it....we have proved it in the past that IVians can contribute
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