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  #1  
Old 11-07-2007, 10:01 AM
another one another one is offline
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Default Discrimination and Outrage!

Here's an example of the extent of noise which racial discrimination can make in US.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/06/ice.costume/index.html

A DHS worker suspended because of wearing inappropriate costume (that implied racial discrimination) on Halloween.

=====================================

Compare this to our cause.

Every year more students come to US from India than from any other country.

Every year more H1-B workers come to US from India than from any other country.

Every year only 7% of employment based visas are given out to Indian nationals. More than half a million are waiting....[etc]

All of us know how ridculously low that number is. If this is not discrimination than what is? Yet where is our outrage!

Question is whether the following argument can stand in US court of law?

"US Immigration Policy racially discriminates against Indian nationals by keeping a low cieling on the maximum number of employment based immigration visas for any nation, even though no such cieling exists for non-immigration visas. This is a deliberate attempt to racially restrict the number of India nationals who can become US residents even though they are allowed in US for purposes that benefit US colleges and corporations"

..and i don't know the answer. But it will be pity if we don't explore this line to its logical end. I am going to find out from my lawyer in a week or so. In the meantime if anyone has solid information on this it would be very helpful.
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2007, 10:17 AM
indianabacklog indianabacklog is offline
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I think this would not be a wise course of action since you are a visitor in a foreign land and that land has the right to make their own rules. That is democracy at work.

Employment based immigrants get enough bad press already.

I am not from India and come from a country that has a huge immigrant population and it has been discussed many times that the policy was and is somewhat flawed that allowed the current situation to occur.

Maybe this is one area where the United States has watched the experience of other nations.
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2007, 10:27 AM
canmt canmt is offline
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

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  #4  
Old 11-07-2007, 10:31 AM
BMS1 BMS1 is offline
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Since the advent of soft quota, Indians get much more than 7% of employment based visa'a, close to 30-40% of all the EB immigrants clearly dominating the employment immigration. There is always a move to get rid of the soft quota and increase the floor to 10%. So keeping quiet on this issue is a wiser move.
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  #5  
Old 11-07-2007, 10:33 AM
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I agree. Yet, by lobbying, we are already trying to influence the rules of the foreign land, because we have been part of foreign land for many years and think our rationale is just.

My line is - introduce the same country ceiling for non-immigration visas (and allow US collges and corporations to suffer) or remove the country ceiling from employment based immigration visas. It's the difference of approach in two categories which is causing the discrimination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by indianabacklog View Post
I think this would not be a wise course of action since you are a visitor in a foreign land and that land has the right to make their own rules. That is democracy at work.

Employment based immigrants get enough bad press already.

I am not from India and come from a country that has a huge immigrant population and it has been discussed many times that the policy was and is somewhat flawed that allowed the current situation to occur.

Maybe this is one area where the United States has watched the experience of other nations.
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:29 AM
abracadabra102 abracadabra102 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indianabacklog View Post
I think this would not be a wise course of action since you are a visitor in a foreign land and that land has the right to make their own rules. That is democracy at work.

Employment based immigrants get enough bad press already.

I am not from India and come from a country that has a huge immigrant population and it has been discussed many times that the policy was and is somewhat flawed that allowed the current situation to occur.

Maybe this is one area where the United States has watched the experience of other nations.
Great point. I am an Indian but I recognize that I have no right to demand US to change her immigration policy to suit my needs. Foreign nationals can always try and put together a persuasive argument explaining why it is beneficial to both (prospective immigrants and US) to allow them to immigrate to US, but who gets in is her decision alone.
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  #7  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracadabra102 View Post
Great point. I am an Indian but I recognize that I have no right to demand US to change her immigration policy to suit my needs. Foreign nationals can always try and put together a persuasive argument explaining why it is beneficial to both (prospective immigrants and US) to allow them to immigrate to US, but who gets in is her decision alone.
Difference between "no right to demand" and right to "put together a persuasive argument" may not be as clear as you may think.

What is clear is we have no rights as citizens of this country.

Some people may have illegaly crossed the border 10 years ago and may think they have the right to stay here now. Others may have crossed legally 10 years ago and may think they have no right to fair immigration policy.

It's immaterial whether you demand something or argue for something. What's relevant is whether 'right to fair & indiscriminatory immigration policy' has any standing in US court.

When i heard about 'going on offence' at the immigration rally in DC, i hoped it meant exploring all peaceful options, and i am not sure if this peaceful option has been fully explored.
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  #8  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:56 AM
chanduv23 chanduv23 is offline
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The best way to help yourselves is to join a state chapter now and do your best for your own betterment
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:00 PM
abracadabra102 abracadabra102 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by another one View Post
Difference between "no right to demand" and right to "put together a persuasive argument" may not be as clear as you may think.

What is clear is we have no rights as citizens of this country.

Some people may have illegaly crossed the border 10 years ago and may think they have the right to stay here now. Others may have crossed legally 10 years ago and may think they have no right to fair immigration policy.

It's immaterial whether you demand something or argue for something. What's relevant is whether 'right to fair & indiscriminatory immigration policy' has any standing in US court.

When i heard about 'going on offence' at the immigration rally in DC, i hoped it meant exploring all peaceful options, and i am not sure if this peaceful option has been fully explored.
You can neither demand nor argue before entering someone's house. You can only request.
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:02 PM
gc28262 gc28262 is offline
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Default USA is everybody's land

Quote:
Originally Posted by indianabacklog View Post
I think this would not be a wise course of action since you are a visitor in a foreign land and that land has the right to make their own rules. That is democracy at work.

Employment based immigrants get enough bad press already.

I am not from India and come from a country that has a huge immigrant population and it has been discussed many times that the policy was and is somewhat flawed that allowed the current situation to occur.

Maybe this is one area where the United States has watched the experience of other nations.
I disagree. US is a country of immigrants. The real americans are the red indians. Everybody else is an immigrant here. Some came before us, made the rules to suit them. USA is everybody's land irrespective of nationality.
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Last edited by gc28262; 11-07-2007 at 12:06 PM.
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  #11  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:05 PM
kaisersose kaisersose is offline
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Yes. The last thing we would want to do is rub Americans the wrong way.

It was a simple thing back in 1882 for the US to ban Chinese from entering the country as they were coming in droves and competing with Americans for jobs as they were willing to work longer hours for lower wages. The ban was not lifted for 60 years. It was lifted only because the US required Chinese aid during wwII.

Sound's familiar? That is more or less what Indian IT people are doing today in the US.
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracadabra102 View Post
You can neither demand nor argue before entering someone's house. You can only request.
Sorry didn't realize you are still outside US. You cannot simplify the world by using such analogies.

demand, argue, request, beg .. i am not talking about what's the most approporiate word for situation.

I am only talking about possible legal recourses, chance of which are slim.
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  #13  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:10 PM
kaisersose kaisersose is offline
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I disagree. US is a country of immigrants. The real americans are red indians. Everybody else is an immigrant here. Some came before us, made the rules to suit them. USA is everybody's land irrespective of nationality.
Man (Homo Sapiens) originated in Africa and moved out of Africa only 50 thousand years ago. That way, using your logic, every country outside Africa is a country of immigrants and anyone can lay claim anywhere.

But that is not how the country concept works. There was no USA during the time of the native Americans. The concept of the US was founded and developed by White Americans and they make the laws. Does not matter if they immigrated 50 years ago or 400 years ago.

We are visitors in the US and we should not lose sight of that. We can be here only as long as they are willing to have us here.
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:12 PM
chanduv23 chanduv23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersose View Post
Yes. The last thing we would want to do is rub Americans the wrong way.

It was a simple thing back in 1882 for the US to ban Chinese from entering the country as they were coming in droves and competing with Americans for jobs as they were willing to work longer hours for lower wages. The ban was not lifted for 60 years. It was lifted only because the US required Chinese aid during wwII.

Sound's familiar? That is more or less what Indian IT people are doing today in the US.
Yes, I agree. All we can do is lobby by peaceful means. Everyone has a heart and we can definitely make the the lawmakers look at our viewpoints.

People must come out of anonymity and start participating in grassroots activities and not write anonymous, unnecessary blogs on the forum.

Please channelize all ur energies in a constructive manner. Join your State chapters and start helping yourself.
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:13 PM
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hmmm interesting. didn't know about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersose View Post

It was a simple thing back in 1882 for the US to ban Chinese from entering the country as they were coming in droves and competing with Americans for jobs as they were willing to work longer hours for lower wages. The ban was not lifted for 60 years. It was lifted only because the US required Chinese aid during wwII.
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