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thuristic 04-18-2006 07:44 PM

All Lou Dobbs discussions: don't start new threads on him
 
Lou Dobbs at CNN is doing a quick vote to justify his oppinions against amnesty. So far, the majority of the vote is "against" rather than "for". I myself am not a big fan of the proposal becauses it deminishes efforts put in by legal immigrats like ourselves but regardless consider it necessary for us to support as it currently is the only bill alive including retrogression relief along with amnesty.

Media generates publicity by twisting a small fraction of reality. Imagine what Lou would say if he gets a unanimous vote against amnesty. I am sure he will make the best of it to promote negativism towards any relief efforts regardless of it being amnesty or retrogression relief. Please go to the URL below and cast your support vote!

Question: Do you believe Congress should first demand that our borders and ports be secured before taking up immigration reform?


http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

cpolisetti 04-18-2006 08:09 PM

I don't believe votes such as this are scientific. Also only people who like the opinion given by him watches the show, so everyone knows it will be biased.

Anyway I did vote NO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thuristic
Lou Dobbs at CNN is doing a quick vote to justify his oppinions against amnesty. So far, the majority of the vote is "against" rather than "for". I myself am not a big fan of the proposal becauses it deminishes efforts put in by legal immigrats like ourselves but regardless consider it necessary for us to support as it currently is the only bill alive including retrogression relief along with amnesty.

Media generates publicity by twisting a small fraction of reality. Imagine what Lou would say if he gets a unanimous vote against amnesty. I am sure he will make the best of it to promote negativism towards any relief efforts regardless of it being amnesty or retrogression relief. Please go to the URL below and cast your support vote!

Question: Do you believe Congress should first demand that our borders and ports be secured before taking up immigration reform?


http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/


jkays94 04-18-2006 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpolisetti
I don't believe votes such as this are scientific. Also only people who like the opinion given by him watches the show, so everyone knows it will be biased.

Anyway I did vote NO.

Last week Lou (who is a Harvard Economics graduate) said he was sending one of his poll results to the WH. Very unfortunate for a non-scientific poll. The other thing is that often a lot of people in decision making capacity ie some congressmen and senators watch Lou Dobbs and are often misled which is why it is key that groups like IV tell the true side of the story. Right now Lou has an anti-H1-B agenda and has been trying to lump H1-Bs as a bad thing for America.

gc03 05-17-2006 12:56 PM

Dobbs: Bush speech satisfies nobody...
 
Wouldn't it have been nice as well for this president to suggest that the U.S. government would also take seriously its responsibilities to create a new and efficient immigration system to accommodate the backlog of millions of people trying to do the right thing? The same agency that would have to oversee Mr. Bush's amnesty program could not begin to do so because the Citizenship and Immigration Services already faces a backlog of millions of people who are trying to enter this country lawfully.

Read on full

Should we thank CNN Writer Lou Dobbs?

learning01 05-17-2006 01:30 PM

A firm No.
 
gc03:

Go and search for Lou Dobbs in this forum.

This forum is purely for discussing issues related to problems and difficulties of high skilled legal immigrants., affected by inefficiency of backlog centers, LCs and lack of visa numbers, GC issues and the consequent retrogression.

I haven't gone to the link you provided, because I don't need to. Has Mr.Dobbs advocated our issues, our goals anytime in his effort to highlight immigration issues? I don't think so. He does what is convenient for him and for his ratings and viewership.

So, please let's end this discussion here and please refrain from quoting and promoting the foul mouth Lou Dobbs.
I hope you will understand. Thanks.

qualified_trash 05-17-2006 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by learning01
gc03:

Go and search for Lou Dobbs in this forum.

This forum is purely for discussing issues related to problems and difficulties of high skilled legal immigrants., affected by inefficiency of backlog centers, LCs and lack of visa numbers, GC issues and the consequent retrogression.

I haven't gone to the link you provided, because I don't need to. Has Mr.Dobbs advocated our issues, our goals anytime in his effort to highlight immigration issues? I don't think so. He does what is convenient for him and for his ratings and viewership.

So, please let's end this discussion here and please refrain from quoting and promoting the foul mouth Lou Dobbs.
I hope you will understand. Thanks.

Why are members on this forum so eager to ask others to refrain from this or refrain from that? Are we all not adults leading professionally successful lives. Can we all not have a discussion with varying points of view? I am asking someone - WAIT - begging someone from the core group to ask everyone to stop doing this? What use are our degrees and experience if we cannot listen to dissent? I would like to call this 'EDUCATED ILLITERACY' if I may.

The question posed by the other user was rhetorical in nature. I am not sure why he should understand and refrain. I think the others should either agree/disagree/no comment with him and refrain from asking him to keep quiet.

learning01 05-17-2006 02:39 PM

It is a suggestion and
 
we could not prevent your postings. Lou Dobbs is fould mouth. Please answer my direct questions:
Can you quote or tell when Lou Dobbs has highlighted our side of the story. Why now? A passing line. It is to support his premise of the article.
So, leave Lou and other foul moths alone. Don't dance with them.

We need focus and we have no focus groups. These forums in IV are the focussed forums for us. So, I suggested that we need to concentrate our efforts and channel them. That's my point.

Your conclusion otherwise is childish and please grow up. I am not from the core group. Call it whatever you want. But stick to the focus and reach the goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qualified_trash
Why are members on this forum so


gc03 05-17-2006 02:54 PM

Not to divert from IV core goals
 
learning01, I do not agree with you. You should better use different language. I am not here to promote or demote anyone.

Let me ask you a quick question.
Have you contacted Lou Dobbs to publish our stories? probably not.

It's ideal to say thanks and indirectly ask him to publish legal immigration problems.

Berkeleybee 05-17-2006 02:59 PM

Qualified_trash,

We (IV Core) have no problem with dissent or discussion. Both gc03 and learning01 each expressed their opinions on reacting to Lou Dobbs.

On the issue of what to do about Lou Dobbs:

(1) Lou Dobbs is no friend of ours (immigrants) -- he absolutely doesn't make the list of people we should thank! A little googling will tell you more about Dobbs and his immigration politics. He is using this argument today to further his ends. Not just Dobbs but other anti-immigrants are on a divide and conquer path to kill this version of CIR.

(2) IV as a group has plenty else to do, so there will be no IV-wide response to Lou Dobb's comment of the day.

On the other hand, all of our members are individuals, and they are free to express their opinions by calling or writing, so long as they do not claim that these are the opinions of IV as a group.

best,
Berkeleybee

qualified_trash 05-17-2006 03:08 PM

I totally agree with gc03 and learning01 expressing their views. It is when someone starts using terms like "refrain" etc. I get all worked up. gc03 and learning01 are entitled to their thoughts. What they are not entitled to is to tell each other or anyone else to "do this" OR "do not do that". Are we on agreement on this? I can see some name calling going on in these forums which is rather disappointing.

Someone very funnily called me an individual from the US Army who has infiltrated IV.

As for learning01, I know that getting the GC process fixed is of paramount importance here. My only suggestion to learning01 and IV is this.......... If Lou Dobbs can help you you should use his help. You do not know what his thoughts are on legal immigration. If he says that he does not support your cause, you can move on and atleast know where he stands.

If IV is talking to lawmakers from both parties, why cant we speak to all sides of the media?

Berkeleybee 05-17-2006 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qualified_trash
My only suggestion to learning01 and IV is this.......... If Lou Dobbs can help you you should use his help. You do not know what his thoughts are on legal immigration. If he says that he does not support your cause, you can move on and atleast know where he stands.

If IV is talking to lawmakers from both parties, why cant we speak to all sides of the media?

Qualified_trash,

IV core members have only 24 hours a day to do IV work and their full time jobs. As such, we have to channel our resources in the most productive way possible. Lou Dobbs is the media equivalent of FAIR, NumbersUSA, Tom Tancredo and company [Do get on to Lexis-Nexis and find out more about him.] We are civil in our encounters with the representatives of these groups, but it is not a productive use of our time to engage with them more than this.

As for dealing with lawmakers -- there too we spend our time productively. We haven't been hanging out with Jeff Sessions and James Sensenbrenner. We use other more reasonable lawmakers to work out deals with the anti-immigrant wing.

best,
Berkeleybee

qualified_trash 05-17-2006 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeleybee
Qualified_trash,

IV core members have only 24 hours a day to do IV work and their full time jobs. As such, we have to channel our resources in the most productive way possible. Lou Dobbs is the media equivalent of FAIR, NumbersUSA, Tom Tancredo and company [Do get on to Lexis-Nexis and find out more about him.] We are civil in our encounters with the representatives of these groups, but it is not a productive use of our time to engage with them more than this.

As for dealing with lawmakers -- there too we spend our time productively. We haven't been hanging out with Jeff Sessions and James Sensenbrenner. We use other more reasonable lawmakers to work out deals with the anti-immigrant wing.

best,
Berkeleybee

Sounds good to me. I have also made my information available to the core group to be a volunteer. I believe it is more important to do some work rather than just give money. I understand that the work that IV is doing is going to benefit all of us tremendously.

As Sir Winston C once said -- "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."

Our fight may pale into comparison when you consider that he was discussing WWII. But the spirit needs to be the same from our side if we want to achieve the goal.

Nice blog entry by someone asking Mr Dobbs to put his money where his mouth is:

http://www.visalaw.com/05mar2/10mar205.html

dartkid31 05-17-2006 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeleybee
Qualified_trash,

IV core members have only 24 hours a day to do IV work and their full time jobs. As such, we have to channel our resources in the most productive way possible. Lou Dobbs is the media equivalent of FAIR, NumbersUSA, Tom Tancredo and company [Do get on to Lexis-Nexis and find out more about him.] We are civil in our encounters with the representatives of these groups, but it is not a productive use of our time to engage with them more than this.

As for dealing with lawmakers -- there too we spend our time productively. We haven't been hanging out with Jeff Sessions and James Sensenbrenner. We use other more reasonable lawmakers to work out deals with the anti-immigrant wing.

best,
Berkeleybee

I agree 100 percent. Anyone who believes Lou Dobbs is a friend of LEGAL immigrants probably also believes Tom Tancredo and NumbersUsa Sympathize with legal immigrants. It always ticks me off whenever Tancredo is waxing poetic in the press about how legalizing illegals would be "sending the wrong message to those trying to do it the right way"; when he is actively trying to end all legal immigration. What a tool and hypocrite. Lou Dobbs falls in the same boat. Dont believe their tripe for one second.

navin2004 05-24-2006 11:04 AM

Finally Lou Dobbs is talking about legal immigrants waiting in line
 
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/23/dob...cnn_topstories


This is an excerpt from the above article.

"Illegal aliens are more important to this Congress than securing our borders and our ports, more important than those legal immigrants who have waited in line and who follow the law. The Senate has added to the litany of lunacy that makes up what it calls reform: Illegal aliens would only have to pay back taxes on three of the past five years, they will not be prosecuted for felonies such as identity theft or purchasing or using fraudulent Social Security cards, and unlike millions of visa holders who have to leave the country to have them renewed, they may simply remain in the United States while this Congress and this president give away all the benefits and privileges of American citizenship."

richshi 05-24-2006 11:58 AM

Lou Dobbs, this sob does not care about legal immi
 
Lou dobbs is pure anti-immigrants. he has never been an advocate of legal immigrants, he is against H-1B. Now he mentions legal immigrants only to defy the illegals. He is a bad person.

alien2006 05-24-2006 12:05 PM

Lou hates immigrants period
 
He is just using this to play illegals vs legals. If you watch his lousy program, he is constantly ranting that this CIR bill will increase immigration by 100 million plus in the next few years. Some time back he also said that the CIR is a covert operation to increase H1Bs and legal immigration, not just about illegal immigrants. You can tune out what Lou says, he's doing what he can to improve his ratings.

learning01 05-24-2006 12:20 PM

Bravo, brother. Great minds think alike.
 
I had same thoughts today, as I did a few months ago in my post in this forum.
Let's ignore quoting Lou here (don't quote the devil). Let the Ad industry be happy with him. His audience reach has climbed from 400k to 900k because of his immigration rant. I guess he will land with a thud once this dust settles down.
Quote:

Originally Posted by alien2006
He is just using this to play illegals vs legals. If you watch his lousy program, he is constantly ranting that this CIR bill will increase immigration by 100 million plus in the next few years. Some time back he also said that the CIR is a covert operation to increase H1Bs and legal immigration, not just about illegal immigrants. You can tune out what Lou says, he's doing what he can to improve his ratings.


dartkid31 05-24-2006 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alien2006
He is just using this to play illegals vs legals. If you watch his lousy program, he is constantly ranting that this CIR bill will increase immigration by 100 million plus in the next few years. Some time back he also said that the CIR is a covert operation to increase H1Bs and legal immigration, not just about illegal immigrants. You can tune out what Lou says, he's doing what he can to improve his ratings.


Very true. And if anyone is still not convinced, check out this doozy:

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/36625/

All Lou Dobbs does is promote the agenda of Tom Tancredo, Jeff Sessions, FAIR, NumbersUsa, John Tanton, and our other good friends. And we know where they stand.

learning01 05-24-2006 01:59 PM

Are you in need of speciality and high tech workers
 
how can you say that the increase is not fair? Do you know how dependent and hungry these American Corporations, Universities or Research labs are? These are operating on a global scale. Innovation and Entrepreneurship are global traits. That's what these employers are seeking and getting.

And Why not? A coke that costs about 5 c, the concentrate is made here and sent to China, Vietnam or Africa and sold 10 times more. And part the money comes back to this country, to its investors?

Come on, you can't be so simple and naive? Grow up my friend. Read a wide variety of subjects. Tune less to the idiot box (TV), that shuts out all logical and analytical human ablities; instead it sways folks.

The need for high skilled professionals is market driven and need based. Why would one spend atleast 10K to try to get even one H1. In advertising, in Labor Certifications, in foreign recriutment, then bringing him here.

Brother, nobody does H1 employment for charity or social service. Not in this country. Not in any country. On the contrary. This country has dire need for nurses and other health care professionals. They are getting them here on a straight Green Card, on a silver platter. I am sure you must be aware of that.

Americans are simply not enrolling in these high risk, hard work professions. period. QED.
What say you?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
Folks,


dixie 05-24-2006 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
Folks,

I think if you one wants to eliminate or significantly reduce the number of H1B's or immigrant visas, then you can go ahead and label that person "anti-immigrant". I would be with you, saying that is definitely negative to America.

So far I haven't seen Lou Dobbs doing that though. All the time I watch the program I see that man bringing up legitimate concerns. Lou Dobbs is a hero for Americans. The fact is that in general, wages have been stagnated for the last five years. What I have seen Lou Dobbs bringing up is that H1B numbers should not be increased. Don't you think that is a fair and rational approach ? Tell me. Honestly, when I learned this provision that they want to increase H1B visas at 20% every year, that appeared quite of a stretch to me. Folks, please be more rational and thoughtful please ?


if you think he is only against INCREASING H1-B visas, but is happy with you and I continuing here on that visa and go on to get GCs, then you are fooling yourself. He is the one primarily responsible for spreading the myth that H1-B workers pay no taxes.To this day, my co-workers openly envy me , because I supposedly dont pay any taxes !!!

If you go through the transcripts of his shows over the last 4-5 years, he is stauncly against everything foriegn, period. He hates H1-Bs, absolutely hates indian call centers , hates cheap chinese goods, hates illegal aliens ... he is not just anti-immigrant, he is xenophobic.

The reason he is so popular is because he appeals to populist sentiments .. its the easiest thing in the world to blame foreigners when the economy is bad and believe everything will be hunky-dory if they are kicked out.

And by the way, I dont see anything wrong in increasing H1-B visas .. after all most of us are here on that visa .. if there is a market demand for them, I see no rational in depriving american employees from hiring foreigners legally. By that logic, are we going to oppose increasing EB green cards once we get our own?? Thats plain hypocrisy.

Nobody riles me more than lou dobbs .. not tancredo, not sessions, not even FAIR. Because, unlike his worthy friends, he has access to idiot boxes all around america on a daily basis.

waitnwatch 05-24-2006 02:03 PM

Communique,

I would like to differ on the point of keeping H1-B numbers constant. To hire a H1-B a company has to show that they didnot get a US citizen with even the minimal qualifications for that particular job. Also the salary for the job has to be certified by the Department of Labor as at least the market rate if not higher. Under this scenario why should there be this artificial and arbitrary limit. Again most of the numbers nowadays is being picked up by the consultants so if a regular company like say Caterpillar wants to hire an engineer the numbers are just not available.

While you do make a statement supporting no change in the numbers you justify your point by pointing to salary stagnation. Can you show a direct correlation between H1B and salary stagnation. I would more likely point to outsourcing as being more relevant to salary stagnation. If companies have a hard time hiring they would be more prone to outsourcing and it is always better to have a salary stagnated job in the US than not having the job at all.

Finally about Lou Dobbs..... I have much better use for my time than watching him. His journalism is worse than tabloid journalism though I have the suspicion that he may have an eye on joining the National Enquirer after immigration is done as he would have nothing more to say to his current audience.

My two cents!

khelanphelan 05-24-2006 02:11 PM

Brownback amendment and CIR?
 
Did the brownback amendment pass with the CIR?

waitnwatch 05-24-2006 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khelanphelan
Did the brownback amendment pass with the CIR?

Please spend some time on this website....browse around, get acquainted, find the right threads and you will automatically find your answers. There is no 1800 number to call for assistance here............

Raju 05-24-2006 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixie
If you go through the transcripts of his shows over the last 4-5 years, he is stauncly against everything foriegn, period. He hates H1-Bs, absolutely hates indian call centers , hates cheap chinese goods, hates illegal aliens ... he is not just anti-immigrant, he is xenophobic.
The reason he is so popular is because he appeals to populist sentiments .. its the easiest thing in the world to blame foreigners when the economy is bad and believe everything will be hunky-dory if they are kicked out.

I used to watch his show for 2 yrs. This is what exactly he wants to do. I agree 200% to the above passage. He wants to build walls for everything, technolgy, foriegn goods and Immigrants(legal and illegel). I am surprised that he is a harvard graduate. He want to send 15 mil illegals out, which is 10% of the whole work force. The current unemployment in this coutry is under 5% which the best in the world. How is he going to fill the jobs that were left behind by the illegals...

learning01 05-24-2006 02:44 PM

What balance...
 
can you tell me why nurses and physio-therapists are brought on H1B visas, and once they are employed their GCs are applied straight away and UNDER NO quota.

You seem to be liking one or part of Lou's argument. You are only seeing the trees. My friend, start to see the forest. The big picture of Lou.

dartkid31 05-24-2006 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
Folks,

I think if you one wants to eliminate or significantly reduce the number of H1B's or immigrant visas, then you can go ahead and label that person "anti-immigrant". I would be with you, saying that is definitely negative to America.

So far I haven't seen Lou Dobbs doing that though. All the time I watch the program I see that man bringing up legitimate concerns. Lou Dobbs is a hero for Americans. The fact is that in general, wages have been stagnated for the last five years. What I have seen Lou Dobbs bringing up is that H1B numbers should not be increased. Don't you think that is a fair and rational approach ? Tell me. Honestly, when I learned this provision that they want to increase H1B visas at 20% every year, that appeared quite of a stretch to me. Folks, please be more rational and thoughtful please ?

"Folks, please be more rational and thoughtful please ?"

I think thoughtful and rational are NOT two words you would use to describe a Lou Dobbs broadcast. :D

Extremely one sided, hateful, demagogry, those words would be more accurate.

learning01 05-24-2006 02:51 PM

You are right, but unfortunately Communique is ...
 
still trolling Lou.

You can feel the vengence of Lou against immigrants in the tone, in the voice in the tenor and above all in the content and subject matter.

I can't sit quietly if someone on this forum speaks highly of Lou. But soon we must end this discussion, if Communique continues his rant. We need other things on the forum, like sending web fax #15, following senate live discussions. Such bill comes up only once in one's lifetime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dartkid31
"Folks, please be more rational and thoughtful please ?"

I think thoughtful and rational are NOT two words you would use to describe a Lou Dobbs broadcast. :D

Extremely one sided, hateful, demagogry, those words would be more accurate.


GCisLottery 05-24-2006 02:53 PM

How does a media person whose objective is to get good rating and keep the show on air for as long as he could matter for our goals?

Can we find something else to talk about?

learning01 05-24-2006 03:00 PM

Communique, quit discussing on this thread.
 
It's a request.

ufo2002 05-24-2006 03:30 PM

Well.. I am usually a thread killer in many forums... lets see if this works:

TTIWOP!

jkays94 05-24-2006 03:48 PM

McCain on Dobbs...
 
http://www.observer.com/20060529/200...newsstory1.asp

He cautioned against ghettoizing immigrants, which he noted has brought about disastrous results in France, and criticized elements in his own party as “nativist” before lambasting the punditry of Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs and Michael Savage for helping to “fuel the problem,” according to two of the sources.

dartkid31 05-24-2006 03:58 PM

Communique
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
That's censorship. Go ahead and good luck with your mentality. It seems you can't handle the truth and views that could give you better information to handle debates and put more intelligent requests ahead.

Go and learn something, learning01. Just stop reading the posts on this thread and stop posting here if you don't like. It is awful when people tries to take a censorship in open forums.

I've said this before: I usually dont like casting aspersions, but take a look at a lot of Communique's posts. Some look like they were copied and pasted word for word from the NumbersUsa or FAIR site. And now he's defending Lou Dobbs. Using terms like "mass migration" "unchecked immigration", etc. He claims to be an H1B, and he's trolling Lou Dobbs. I think most people on this site can see through the facade.

jkays94 05-24-2006 03:59 PM

Dobb's numerous Misrepresentations
 
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topic...oudobbstonight


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