Immigration Voice

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-   -   All Lou Dobbs discussions: don't start new threads on him (https://archive.immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=624)

learning01 05-24-2006 04:09 PM

Yes, for the past 30 min. I was researching on Communique's
 
threads and postings. Since he is challenging and throwing baby tantrums on a forum, of all things, let's have it.
Here, I quote from his first troll post in this thread:
Quote:

wages have been stagnated for the last five years.
Now, my friend Communique can you back this up with reliable references and links. Also, can you rebut, point by point on what I said about Lou Dobbs.
Even in the commentary in the link given by this thread's starter, there is all kinds of rants from Lou and not one, I repeat not one senctence, let alone one paragraph on issues affecting legal immigration.
I have said earlier: we have to stay focussed on the retrogression and backlog issues. That's what I have been urging Communique and others in this thread. Increase or decrease of H1 is not our goal here. In fact, I should not discussing this. I was trying to bring all folks here to our focussed goals and action on hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dartkid31
I've said this before: I usually dont like casting aspersions, but take a look at a lot of Communique's posts. Some look like they were copied and pasted word for word from the NumbersUsa or FAIR site. And now he's defending Lou Dobbs. Using terms like "mass migration" "unchecked immigration", etc. He claims to be an H1B, and he's trolling Lou Dobbs. I think most people on this site can see through the facade.


waitnwatch 05-24-2006 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
WaitNwatch,

No. How about you:can you show a study and correlation between outsourcing and salary stagnation ?

Let's be honest and realistic, do you believe that by bringing more workers, how long that would prevent companies from offshoring jobs ? It is true that by not bringing more workers, companies would be more willing to offshore. In my view, companies will offshore regardless in the future. With or without cheaper labor here, they will be tempted to go overseas since the savings are significant, am I right ? At that time is when people has legitimate concerns to control the numbers of newcomers.

Your logic is getting a little simplistic here. I will try to explain the best I can and this is my last post on the topic. Here are a few points. Try to link them together and you will get a sense of the whole logic.
(1) Companies outsource because of cheap labor.
(2) Companies also look elsewhere when there is a shortage.
(3) There are areas other than high tech (e.g. science, mathematics, biotechnology) that need people from outside (including fresh US university graduates).
(4) Other countries will catch up with the US if cutting edge companies donot find enough STEM people.
(5) These other countries with more logical immigration policies will attract talent and the companies will move there.
(4) Graduates in STEM need to get H1B after their practical training.
(5) US does not produce enough STEM graduates and cannot entice foreign students if there are no H1B's available when they enter the job market.
(6) Outsourcing of top science jobs are not only lost jobs but also cause collateral damage and reduce other jobs dependent on that job.
(7) Without the supply of high quality graduates the companies lose their cutting edge and start cost cutting instead of innovating.

There is a national research council report which may be available from the National Academy of Sciences. Foreign STEM's are desperately needed and non-availability of H1B visas means fewer students will come as they are uncertain of getting a H1B. Here is an Indian example: The IIT graduate will go to Bangalore and earn enough from day 1 to own a nice apartment, have a chauffeur and a maid. On the other hand you want him to come to the US to work 6 years on a Ph.D getting a student stipend and no guarantee to stay and work. If you think this top brain will come you should be living in the world of Peter Pan.

jkays94 05-24-2006 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
I don't have the time to go one by one, but one of the arguments about "Zogby poll taken by anti-immigration" groups is at minimum comic. How about other polls posted along the years which show the obvious and logic, which is the American people (not employers of course) support lower immigration numbers ? Anyone surprised by that ?

There are over 50 different instances referencing Lou Dobbs. He misleads and misdirects and he will flip flop when he is caught between a rock and a hard place on his wild claims. CNN by extension is fast establishing itself as an anti-immigrant media house for purposes of ratings, on which is it fast loosing ground. Their latest hire Glenn Beck only shows that promoting such an agenda seems to save CNN's ratings from plunging to the bottom :

MON., MAY 22, 2006 VIEWERS

FNC O'REILLY 2,105,000
FNC HANNITY/COLMES 1,666,000
FNC GRETA 1,494,000
FNC HUME 1,341,000
FNC SHEP SMITH 1,215,000
CNN KING 885,000
CNN DOBBS 702,000
CNN BLITZER 592,000
CNN COOPER 590,000
CNN ZAHN 527,000
CNNHN GRACE 487,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 471,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 406,000

alien2006 05-24-2006 04:43 PM

Depends on which side of the bed Lou wakes up
 
... who to criticize for that day. His four favorties - India, China, Mexico and "this administration not doing anything"
Note these four favorites, every program will have one or more of the above.

But the one thing that really annoys the hell out of me is his really dumb polls. They are always biased to what he wants to proclaim - like 90% agree to this and 85% agree to this. Watch his polls regularly and you will understand.

Anyways, thats the last from me about this guy.

Raju 05-24-2006 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
Raju, the unemployment is at 4.7%. That is good, but how about earning power and wage increases ? I hear all the time my friends report that they can no longer afford goods and services as they did five or four years ago. There are plenty of evidence that in many sectors wages have dropped or have stagnated. Is that indication of surplus pr shortage of workers ?

Regarding his idea of sending 15 millions of illegals out, that is not absurd. He never told he wanted to do it overnight. A gradual, slow deportation program yes, it would be probably the best way to handle this.

I am sorry if I look negative to you guys, but my goal is to be sincere and honest about facts here.

I think that wages have gone up drastically during the dotcom bubble and you should expect them to flatten for a few years. Also, the economy is coming out from a bust and that accounts to a little stagnation. It is simple man, the world also has to catch up. If you get the same job done for much less in coutries like China, India, Russia and romania, why do you think the wages will go up, unless there is a new technology, that absolutely needs cutting edge skills. This is the way it has been in ht past, this is the way it is in present and will be this way in future. The services and goods you are talking about will become more expensive if you want to send the undocumented workers out. And the wages may not go up that much because companies can get stuff done in other parts of the world. A reporter should talk about two sides of the issue and I have never seen Lou do that. I do not have the time/interest to find the transcripts but he had been offensive about H1s and I heard him say that H1's do not pay taxes, which is a blunder.

Raju 05-24-2006 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
Nothing new. Of course the US needs to bring the bright and the best. Yes, I agree with you the US apparently doesn't have the necessary number of people with advanced degrees in science right now. I never told you to shut down the H1B or decrease the numbers. I am just saying, can people respect the other side and suggest more sensible mechanisms ? Can one understand that an automatic increase of 20% per year can cause hardship to citizens caught in a future and unexpected recession ? That's all I am saying.

Folks, this is what concerns me. We are all very educated people and we cannot have a decent conversation. Many in this thread gets angry at me. As Lou Dobbs says, that is shocking. :-)

Have a good one.

Communique

Hey do you that if something like that happens then Congress will decrease the numbers automatically

rajmirk 05-24-2006 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitnwatch
Please spend some time on this website....browse around, get acquainted, find the right threads and you will automatically find your answers. There is no 1800 number to call for assistance here............

I agree. But lets not scare away people either by such open criticism and rudeness. If no one responds to such questions, then ppl will automatically start looking things up in this or other web-sites.

-R

waitnwatch 05-25-2006 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajmirk
I agree. But lets not scare away people either by such open criticism and rudeness. If no one responds to such questions, then ppl will automatically start looking things up in this or other web-sites.

-R

you're right! I got a bit carried away given that the discussion in the thread was kind of intense at that moment. your point is taken.

GCwaitforever 05-25-2006 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communique
Can one understand that an automatic increase of 20% per year can cause hardship to citizens caught in a future and unexpected recession ? That's all I am saying.

Folks, this is what concerns me. We are all very educated people and we cannot have a decent conversation. Many in this thread gets angry at me. As Lou Dobbs says, that is shocking. :-)

Communique

This is what I can tell you. Couple of my friends choose to go to China for job opportunitieis because that is where manufacturing base of USA is. For opportunities, Americans go to places like Dubai and Russia which are growth markets. In a global economy, job migration is common. It happens both ways - into USA and out of USA.

Lou Dobbs rants about protecting American jobs all the time. Where was he when this was happening from 1980's when blue collar jobs were being shifted to China? USA lost more jobs in manufacturing than in IT outsourcing. His rants bring a sense of insecurity among American viewers, nothing else. The truth is Americans are most resourceful. When faced with a challenge, they find something within themselves, do something and earn a living for themselves. Current number of IT jobs in USA exceeds the number of jobs available during the peak of dotcom era. So infact the IT sector in USA expanded considerably from the dotcom time. Would not you expect a shortage of workers now, given low admission levels of US students in Technology fields? This shortage is part of the reason for expansion of outsourcing. And US universities fill their seats with bright foreign students, but there are not enough VISA numbers to keep these students here. Also USA population is aging rapidly. Part of the reason for nurses in high demand is this. More nurses needed to take care of patients, but not enough people in the profession.

Congress cut down the VISA numbers after the dotcom bust to 65,000 from the height of 195,000.

As for the salary stagnation, outsourcing is definitely one of the reasons. Big companies outsource their work to a cheaper place, and because of their presence in that country, offset offshoring costs against local revenue in that place, there by reduce the tax exposure in USA. This is a double advantage for them. Hence more inclination for outsourcing.

learning01 05-25-2006 08:57 AM

One of the reasons for this backlog mess and ...
 
retrogression is there was no unified voice to atleast speak out, when the serious problems that the legal immigrants are facing was anticipated, write about these issues. Now we have one in IV.

The only problem in what you advocate is this: while each of us is free to speak as we like, that dilutes our focus and produces a gaggle of voices. This results in lack of attention and gradual erosion of the effort. We don't have a full time paid director / administrators to brings things to order. All work here is at IV is voluntary. That's why we need to stop people from promoting Lou Dobbs. Remember, one swallow doen't make a summer.

Also remember: these channels have (or may have) an hidden agenda. Rather than pure news and opinion disseminating channels, they are jockeying to be a opinion influencing channel. That's where they fail; when they can't convince people (how can you, in a few minutes of news coverage), they confuse poeple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _m3_rulz_
Please do not focus on what Lou Dobbs is saying. If you think this is something that may bring harm to our goals just ignore it. No reason to get rude. Everyone has a right to express his/her opinion. We are in America so we can speak freely.
It is all fine. Whatever others do say there is a reason behind it. It is either to support or not to support whatevere is being discussed. Some are very good at chosing the words to blur their intentions. Be smart! Read and conclude. Reply without showing your emotions as those may use against us. This is as simple as that.

regards


araj_98 05-25-2006 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by learning01
retrogression is there was no unified voice to atleast speak out, when the serious problems that the legal immigrants are facing was anticipated, write about these issues. Now we have one in IV.

The only problem in what you advocate is this: while each of us is free to speak as we like, that dilutes our focus and produces a gaggle of voices. This results in lack of attention and gradual erosion of the effort. We don't have a full time paid director / administrators to brings things to order. All work here is at IV is voluntary. That's why we need to stop people from promoting Lou Dobbs. Remember, one swallow doen't make a summer.

Also remember: these channels have (or may have) an hidden agenda. Rather than pure news and opinion disseminating channels, they are jockeying to be a opinion influencing channel. That's where they fail; when they can't convince people (how can you, in a few minutes of news coverage), they confuse poeple.

http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html...ls_article.htm

February 23, 2006
Watch Video of Author Tom Friedman's Lecture

Please note: You will need Quicktime 7 to view this video.

BTW People who support Lou and his view are as ignorant and xenophobic as he is.

Communique - Your posts dont suggest that you are an immigrant or even pro-immigrant.

dartkid31 05-25-2006 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by araj_98
http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html...ls_article.htm

February 23, 2006
Watch Video of Author Tom Friedman's Lecture

Please note: You will need Quicktime 7 to view this video.

BTW People who support Lou and his view are as ignorant and xenophobic as he is.

Communique - Your posts dont suggest that you are an immigrant or even pro-immigrant.

agreed. I think most people on this site have also noticed that.

logiclife 05-31-2006 07:25 PM

Lou Dobbs: The world is coming to an end
 
The congress, the president and everyone is crazy. Except Lou Dobbs. Lou Dobbs is the only one who is doing the sane talk.

Read the smart Einstein-like man's column here:

The whole world is crazy except me

I will post my own editorial on his editorial on CNN, once I get a minute. In the mean time, seriously, take a drink or two before you read this contribution from Lou Dobbs.

gc_bucs 05-31-2006 07:28 PM

whats new
 
Lou's opinioins are well known. He's ripped every one across the spectrum.
Quote:

Originally Posted by logiclife
The congress, the president and everyone is crazy. Except Lou Dobbs. Lou Dobbs is the only one who is doing the sane talk.

Read the crazy man's column here:

The whole world is crazy except me


waitnwatch 05-31-2006 07:56 PM

It's time he got some free counseling through his "Employee Assistance Program" for stress and anxiety. Somehow this guy comes out as comic - except it feels that he is about to have a nervous breakdown. By the way I wonder what FoxNews' take on legal immigration is. Some CNN folks move to Fox but I doubt whether Lou stands a chance.

By the way - Lou's turning out to be the biggest stress relief for us.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

GCwaitforever 05-31-2006 08:01 PM

Lou is an arm-chair critic. I have nothing more to say.

logiclife 05-31-2006 08:18 PM

Tucker Carlson
 
Tucker Carlson(Yeah, the one who was mocked by Jon Stewart and eventually was scrapped from CNN's crossfire) is next in the recruitment line for Fox News.

For a job at Fox I think Tucker and Lou pretty much are competing. Both think that immigrants are the cause of deficit and all the economic crisis(if such a thing exists today). However, I am sure both love their houses built by illegals, the lettuce picked by illegals.

Lou Dobbs is along the lines of Pat Buchanan. He would rather insulate the United States from the rest of the world and isolate. Against immigration, against outsourcing, against free-trade. Sort of like built a huge Igloo around the country so that the immigrants dont plunder the wealth and property that Lou has created with his bare hands.

dartkid31 05-31-2006 09:28 PM

Comic Relief
 
I think Lou Dobbs is mostly comic relief for most of us at this point. The only tragedy in this scenario is that he has access to idiot boxes across the country for an hour eveyday, and there are people who wholeheartedly believe the drivel he spews everyday. :( CNN should be embarrassed.

gsc999 05-31-2006 09:45 PM

CNN is taking a big chance
 
CNN is taking a big chance by trying to be like FOX. CNN will continue to loose viewership with such economic/ social/ culturally xenophobic news reportage.

American Senate did a great job by being so unyielding to the protectionists.

At the same time it is interesting to note the perceptible loss of self-confidence in this protectionist lobby. Are we witnessing a paradigm shift in America? Capitalism takes back seat and the country becomes more socialist like western European contries e.g. France and Germany. With the loomimg baby-boomer retirement a couple of years away this might very well be it.

Globalization trend will intensify. China and Taiwan are already the manufacturing hubs of the world, couple of more years of such unfair treatment of trendsetting immigrants in US and its all history for the knowledge workers here. Former communist countries like Russia and China become truly Capitalist while America becomes socialist driven by the likes of Lou Doubs who is couching his real agenda behind a facade of being a middle-class messiah.

jkays94 05-31-2006 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitnwatch
Some CNN folks move to Fox but I doubt whether Lou stands a chance.

Dobb's was once CNN's executive VP, he quit CNN and returned later....

Dobbs left CNN in 2000, reportedly due to heated clashes with its president, Rick Kaplan, one of which actually occurred on-air when Kaplan suggested to cut from Moneyline to a live address by Bill Clinton at Columbine, which Dobbs believed was a staged event and not newsworthy. [2] Dobbs returned the following year at the behest of his friend and CNN founder Ted Turner, becoming host and managing editor of the new and initially more general news program Lou Dobbs Moneyline which later became Lou Dobbs Tonight. Dobbs also hosts a nationally syndicated radio show, The Lou Dobbs Financial Report, and is a regular columnist in Money magazine, U.S. News & World Report, and the New York Daily News. [more]

ilwaiting 06-01-2006 11:00 AM

I'm confused in the first place, How a public telivision channel like CNN allows to air this show. I'm sure there would have been stuanch critizicism for this show even in the political arena. His offending and never ending seemingly senseless talk on immigration aims at the Congress and even President on their reforms. Agree that we are in a world of freedom of speech but this is crossing the limits.

The problem is most often the information and numbers given on this show are not actual facts and often exaggerated and misleading. The info looks most likely derived from FAIR or NumbersUSA or Heritage foundation or one of their associates.



Quote:

Originally Posted by logiclife
The congress, the president and everyone is crazy. Except Lou Dobbs. Lou Dobbs is the only one who is doing the sane talk.

Read the smart Einstein-like man's column here:

The whole world is crazy except me

I will post my own editorial on his editorial on CNN, once I get a minute. In the mean time, seriously, take a drink or two before you read this contribution from Lou Dobbs.


waitnwatch 06-01-2006 11:16 AM

all in jest
 
jkays

my comment was all tongue in cheek. My only point is that Lou comes off as more conservative than Shaun Hannity and isn't that something.

Even then, in his previous avatar, wasn't Lou licking the boots of the corporates! How come he has gone off in a diametrically opposite direction.

yabadaba 06-01-2006 11:45 AM

thats the way to be
 
Sau Chuhe kha ke Billi Haj ko Chali

roughly translated...after eating 100 mice the cat goes for a pilgrimage

jkays94 06-01-2006 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilwaiting
I'm confused in the first place, How a public telivision channel like CNN allows to air this show.

The problem is most often the information and numbers given on this show are not actual facts and often exaggerated and misleading. The info looks most likely derived from FAIR or NumbersUSA or Heritage foundation or one of their associates.

The reasons can be summed up simply as ratings and the revenue defined from high ratings. CNN is taking a beating from Fox and has decided to adopt an ultra conservative agenda. At the end of the day if being pro-immigrant would improve ratings for CNN such that it would beat Fox News ratings, I am willing to bet that CNN would make a turn around and sing praises in honor of immigrants. See my next post for how low CNN is willing to go in associating with anti-immigrant groups to the extent of propagating myths.

logiclife 06-01-2006 03:19 PM

Not just CNN
 
Its also MSNBC. Just look at Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough.

If you hear Tucker Carlson on MSNBC, he sounds like the protege of Jeff Sessions.

However, one difference between Tucker Carlson and Lou Dobbs. Tucker supports(or atleast pretends to support) the legal variety.

Lou Dobbs openly opposes all immigration.

jkays94 06-01-2006 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitnwatch
jkays

my comment was all tongue in cheek. My only point is that Lou comes off as more conservative than Shaun Hannity and isn't that something.

Its all about the $$ and competition with other networks which are giving CNN a run for its money. So much so it makes sense for CNN not to talk about money matters but topics that appeal to ultra conservative audiences. Dobbs in particular appears willing to go to any lower level to get his points across. And yes, you are right he does use FAIR, NumbersUSA and the Heritage Foundation as his sources for "statistics" and guests on his show.

Dobbs's immigration reporting marked by misinformation, extreme rhetoric, attacks on Mexican president, and data from organization linked to white supremacists

Additional links on the supremacist citation as a source by Dobbs :
Link 1, Link 2

CNN's Dobbs, Christian Science Monitor cited dubious Heritage Foundation study on immigration - This is the same study that Jeff Sessions presented to the Senate.

ilwaiting 06-01-2006 03:31 PM

I bet these guys do NOT know the facts more than the Congress. I bet Congress might have done lot more research into this immigration issue and its impact in all aspects than these news channels anchor's.

But I guess it time that these channels get the facts straight or no conservative would believe them!!!



Quote:

Originally Posted by logiclife
Its also MSNBC. Just look at Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough.

If you hear Tucker Carlson on MSNBC, he sounds like the protege of Jeff Sessions.

However, one difference between Tucker Carlson and Lou Dobbs. Tucker supports(or atleast pretends to support) the legal variety.

Lou Dobbs openly opposes all immigration.


nk2006 06-01-2006 06:49 PM

Its not news reporting or analysis.
 
All these cable channels are after "ratings". Now that Bush administration has low popular support (based on surveys), these guys saw an opportunity to rouse people emotions and get some better ratings (different kind of vultures). Immigration is always a touchy subject at any time and at any place. Its easy to blame "aliens" for all the current problems. Many people can fall prey to this if they are not well informed. Its very unfortunate and sad that even major media houses are hosting these opportunistic journos. Sure immigration has to be discussed with different view points and should be analyzed to see how it impact's the country but these self-appointed crusaders give blatant misinformation. Even more sad is giving absurd figures/data and claim that its from "independent research".

Low Dobbs was never a known journalist until he started this rant. The most hilarous part of his show is that question of the day part. He "conveniently" frames the questions to get a desired answer (everyone know who watch and also vote those questions) and then even quotes the result as a support of what he is saying (its obvious he didnt take stats101). As someone else mentioned on another thread its best to just ignore what he says - he dont add any value to any serious discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by logiclife
Its also MSNBC. Just look at Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough.

If you hear Tucker Carlson on MSNBC, he sounds like the protege of Jeff Sessions.

However, one difference between Tucker Carlson and Lou Dobbs. Tucker supports(or atleast pretends to support) the legal variety.

Lou Dobbs openly opposes all immigration.


logiclife 06-01-2006 08:09 PM

The culture of ranting
 
The culture of rant, the tendency of being angry at all times has landed success to many broadcast journalists, authors and politicians.

On the right:

Rush Limbaugh.
Bill O Reilly.
Sean Hannity.
Ann Coulter(not a journalist but close).

On the left:

Howard Dean.
Al Sharpton.

It seems that the more angry you are, the more successful you are. What surprises me is the Republicans control the congress and the white house and still, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs etc. are angry at all times. They are angry if Bill Clinton is President. They are angry if George Bush is president. They are angry when Democrats win, they are angry even if republicans win. They are just angry and they want everyone else to be angry. Probably, there is a secret key to ratings success written somewhere in a secret book in a secret library that these guys have read. And that books says "Make thy audience mad at someone and thou shalt see success in thy Neilson ratings".

lonedesi 06-01-2006 08:22 PM

Well Said
 
I admire the manner in which you eloquently conveyed the message. You are just too good. Keep it up.



Quote:

Originally Posted by logiclife
The culture of rant, the tendency of being angry at all times has landed success to many broadcast journalists, authors and politicians.

On the right:

Rush Limbaugh.
Bill O Reilly.
Sean Hannity.
Ann Coulter(not a journalist but close).

On the left:

Howard Dean.
Al Sharpton.

It seems that the more angry you are, the more successful you are. What surprises me is the Republicans control the congress and the white house and still, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs etc. are angry at all times. They are angry if Bill Clinton is President. They are angry if George Bush is president. They are angry when Democrats win, they are angry even if republicans win. They are just angry and they want everyone else to be angry. Probably, there is a secret key to ratings success written somewhere in a secret book in a secret library that these guys have read. And that books says "Make thy audience mad at someone and thou shalt see success in thy Neilson ratings".


pasupuleti 06-21-2006 08:50 PM

Disputing Dobbs on immigration
 
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DGDOILMUV1.DTL

logiclife 07-09-2006 03:11 AM

"H1B Slavery!" cries a caller on Radio
 
Well, we had a good debate on Radio on KPFK today.

I would like to thank Rajiv Khanna, Stuart Anderson, Carl Shusterman, Ashish and Swadha for participating on this show. Also Aman and Ashish for arranging this with Debo.

Today, a caller called the show when Debo opened the phone lines and this guy, named Mike, went on and on about how H1B program is similar to slave trade and H1B workers live like insects by piling up 10 people in a one-bedroom apartment and work 100 hours a week for 30 thousand dollars a year bla bla bla.

Without studying due process, or policy analysis, simply crying "Slave Trade", "H1B stole my job...waaaah...waaah", "H1B replaced me...waaah...waaah", they create good sound bites and play victims.

Really, H1B program and employment based greencard program, that brings professionals in skilled occupation into this country to fill a shortage of skilled workers has been vindicated beyond limit. And they keep beating the same drums. "They steal jobs". "They drive down wages". They make good soundbites. And they make good quotes for Lou Dobbs.

Let me say this to Mike and the likes of Zazona.com

Employers dont just go around spending thousands of dollars on H1B fees and greencard fees to hire a guy with foreign accent if a native citizen was available. And they do not underpay them, because they HAVE to pay prevailing wages based on the wages determined by the Department of labor. If they apply for greencard, then that's because they want him on a permenant basis and there is a another labor certification process for that too, where there are newspaper and other advertisements for the job available to citizens first. Upon not finding a suitable fit, they file for labor certification. And let me remind you all that it takes 2-3 years for department of labor to do that coz they do an exhaustive review of the job offer.

Go Here on this link of Department of labor and read the process for yourself. This system is designed to protect the citizens and IT WORKS.

Now in a few cases, if there was fraud, then that doesnt mean that the system does not work and should be abolished. Its like saying that we should abolish driving privileges of everyone just because some drivers drive drunk and kill pedestrians. By that token, we must also ground all commercial air travel because sometimes the planes crash and they kill people.

Another accusation is that H1B employees pay for their own fees sometimes and also for lawyer's fees. And they work like donkeys. Well, not everyone pays for the lawyers. In some rare cases, if the employees hire lawyers, its their own choice, for their own comfort and for their own complicated cases which are many time due to problems of their own making. Why would the employer pay for individuals immigration problems that are not tied to H1B or GC petitions filed by Lawyer? As to working additional hours, its called overtime my dear friend. And they are paid to do that. No one works for free. And no one works for less. If they are paid less than what they think they deserve, then they quit the employer and go to another employer next door who pays them more and treats them fairly.

And ya, another thing. Biggest subscriber of H1B program, especially since the late 90s has be the IT industry. Unemployment in IT industry is less than 2%. If H1B program is really making life worse, I am sure IT industry unemployment would have been more than national average of 5%.

And now, let me mention a few slaves and their slave-masters that I am really proud of...

There are nearly 2000 doctors who are on their path to permenant residency(Green card) in America. They are under Conrad-30 (J1) program. They serve 4 million americans in medically underserved areas. These are rural areas where its hard to find a proper grocery store, let alone a Doctor.

One of my friends works as a Doctor in Yuma, Arizona. The greencard process for him stalls him for years and years to move to a more desirable area even if he has done his due of serving in rural areas for X amount of years. His process would start over again if the area is no longer medically underserved.

And then there are nurses, who also make it to America from all over the world on H1B program. Now, if you've ever been to a Hospital, you would know that its not really the most pleasant job in the world. And there is a severe shortage of nurses in America. Even a 5 year old knows this. So by abolishing H1B program and employment based immigration program, you would get rid of the SLAVE nurses too, who work 12-hour shifts on jobs that American born RNA nurses dont accept.

Such Doctors and nurses are a beacon of hope to 4 million Americans where healthcare is difficult to come by. If such Doctors are slaves, then I am proud of those slaves and their slave masters, and I would love to be either one of them any given day of the week.

-Have a great weekend-


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