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hebbar77
08-31-2009, 06:42 PM
Inviting all who are trying to get GC to write why they need GC!

belmontboy
08-31-2009, 06:52 PM
Roti, kapda, makaan aur GC.
That should explain everything :D

smuggymba
08-31-2009, 06:54 PM
I belong to general category in India. I couldn't stand people getting jobs and seats in educational institutes even though they score less than me. Caste should not be an advantage.

I'd rather be a tech slave in a foreign country rather than being one in my own and report to people who were never better than me.

simple1
08-31-2009, 07:01 PM
GC is just a visa. Nothing more nothing less. the question must be about citizenship.

I know a british who is using GC for past 20 years and never got us citizenship. He is planning to return back.

The actual GC/citizenship quest is based on two extreme views about asia
1. “asia is good” and improving. Letus not get gc.
2. "asia is bad" and letus escape from it. get kids here. get GC then citizenship and move on.
Actually the truth is some were between. asia is good enough to return back after decade or so of residence. (provided children and spouse is ok with that).

hebbar77
08-31-2009, 07:21 PM
Roti, kapda, makaan aur GC.
That should explain everything :D

that you would get anywhere right? Why US?

PavanV
08-31-2009, 07:29 PM
How about great career oppurtunities, no super dumb caste quotas, Women/Strip clubs , Las Vegas, fancy cars, giving an impression to other countries that you are uber cool ? :D, other than that , i dont see any reason being here.
P.S: Notice no money making is included;), because, as this country giveth, it taketh away in the form of GC lawyer fees, H1 B filing/extension feels, EAD filing fees etc...

Mein 2 paise

belmontboy
08-31-2009, 07:30 PM
that you would get anywhere right? Why US?

Roti, kapda and makaan may be good enough in india.
In US, in addition to them, u also need a GC to live a peaceful life.

Once you u have a GC, you get freedom interms of employment, career growth, business opportunities.

This would explain why we need GC!

permfiling
08-31-2009, 07:31 PM
I belong to general category in India. I couldn't stand people getting jobs and seats in educational institutes even though they score less than me. Caste should not be an advantage.

I'd rather be a tech slave in a foreign country rather than being one in my own and report to people who were never better than me.


I agree with you but we can fight for it. No matter u get gc and later citizenship, you can never claim your right here as citizenship can be revoked. For example take the extreme case that there is a civil war in the US sometime in future so where do you stand ? I think the first step all indian orign ppl will do is go to india.

What I am trying to say is we lost the fighting spirit thinking let others do that for you !!!

In the US, even after independence many people fought for the issues which are right.

maximus777
08-31-2009, 07:34 PM
GC to me is a ticket to freedom to change jobs, career advancement and stability. Nothing more, nothing less. At this point, I am not sure if I would like to purse the USC and dont see GC as a stepping stone towards it.

SpookyH1Alien
08-31-2009, 07:42 PM
This question may have different answers at different stages. When I came to the US, the gc seemed a goal achievable in 3-5 years and so then the main motivation was more security in case I lose my job because I really wanted to be in the US.

1. Now the romance with US has ended, really wanna goback but kids are now teens and their adjustment in India seems painful to say the least. Now I want GC for them.

2. Social Security Benefit: 9 years have passed and close to finishing the required 10 years of tax filing. No GC yet. Cant apply for 485. But there is hope some day I get GC/Citizenship and so when I get old, if at all US does not become a banana republic, I might get a thousand dollars a month when I am retired and may badly need it then. Dont want to kick that seemingly fragile benefit.

Just my 2 pathetic cents.

insbaby
08-31-2009, 07:58 PM
I belong to general category in India. I couldn't stand people getting jobs and seats in educational institutes even though they score less than me. Caste should not be an advantage.

I'd rather be a tech slave in a foreign country rather than being one in my own and report to people who were never better than me.

Looks like,hurt a lot...

simple1
08-31-2009, 08:03 PM
This is a sensitive subject. here is my take: reservation is a hurdle but it is not a show stopper. At the same time, reservation must timeout.

caste based reservations violate the constitution.
(State of Madras Vs. Smt. Champakam Dorairanjan AIR 1951 SC 226) clearly shows that caste based reservations as per Communal Award violates Article 15(1). For starters Constiitution was primarly authored by Ambetkar a dalit.

Already creamy layer is excluded.
Those with family income above Rs 250,000 a year should be in creamy layer, and excluded from the reservation quota. Also, children of doctors, engineers, chartered accountants, actors, consultants, media professionals, writers, bureaucrats, defence officers of colonel and equivalent rank or higher, high court and Supreme Court judges, all central and state government Class A and B officials. The court has requested Parliament to exclude MPs’ and MLAs’ children, too.

However Permanent Timeout/retirement of class/caste based reservation is the only soultion:
An individual in india will retire at the age of 58-60 years. The same should apply here, We should retire reservations 58-60 years ( from "1956 ammendment of Schedules based on Kaka Kalelkar report") that would be at 2014-2016.

Balance act is needed. Sympathy and support must not tip into sacrifice.

I belong to general category in India. I couldn't stand people getting jobs and seats in educational institutes even though they score less than me. Caste should not be an advantage.

I'd rather be a tech slave in a foreign country rather than being one in my own and report to people who were never better than me.

bsbawa10
08-31-2009, 08:05 PM
I need gc and ultimately citizenship for my autistic, non-verbal and mentally challenged child. We do not know what will happen to him when we (parents) pass away. In US atleast he can get taken care of by some oraganization. In India, he will come to streets. He is already in a very bad shape.

dhesha
08-31-2009, 08:07 PM
I need GC because my friends got it.

PavanV
08-31-2009, 08:16 PM
I am moved by your post bsbawa10, I wish that you get your GC ASAP.
I need gc and ultimately citizenship for my autistic, non-verbal and mentally challenged child. We do not know what will happen to him when we (parents) pass away. In US atleast he can get taken care of by some oranganization. In India, he will come to streets. He is already in a very bad shape.

eb2_immigrant
08-31-2009, 08:29 PM
I belong to general category in India. I couldn't stand people getting jobs and seats in educational institutes even though they score less than me. Caste should not be an advantage.

I'd rather be a tech slave in a foreign country rather than being one in my own and report to people who were never better than me.

You are going down the wrong path dude, You are explaining the problems you have due to reservation in India and only in India, but that is not what we want to know. There are several people in this forun who are not from India.

My thought on that is-- it is mindset for better life that is spread across certain sector of the people who come from similar socio-economic status.
In my case , I come from a middle class family and I can afford lot of things in USA which I can't think of in India and GC helps in persisting that life style without any strings like H1 etc...
I could probably list out several obvious situations/scenarios but I guess you got the point.

raydon
08-31-2009, 09:05 PM
Peace of mind when planning to travel outside the US. Not having to worry about hassles at the POE or hostile questioning by CBP officers or carrying a big fat file with all documentation that they never ask for. Not having to worry about whether I will be able to re-enter the US, administrative processing, visa stamping, transit visas and all that shit when I travel.

I love travelling to different places in the world, and having a GC gives me the convenience of not having to worry about H1 visa stamps or AP expiration dates.

Freedom to take up better job offers and make career advancement. Not having to worry about maintaining status or finding a job of same or similar nature. The ability to start my own venture if I do get the motivation and courage to do that someday. I know that the EB5 category deals with this, but I don't have that much money (500 grand) to put upfront.

Finally, the key benefit of a GC is not having to worry about LUDs, priority dates, receipt date, notice date, RFE, retrogression, attorney fees, documentation and all that crap that makes my life miserable otherwise.

That's all the ranting (and energy to rant) that I have for today.

sdrblr
08-31-2009, 10:28 PM
One of my colleague who was born in India and moved to US when he was 1 year. He is still on GC and in his early 40s


[QUOTE=simple1;815269]GC is just a visa. Nothing more nothing less. the question must be about citizenship.

I know a british who is using GC for past 20 years and never got us citizenship. He is planning to return back.

BECsufferer
08-31-2009, 11:21 PM
Inviting all who are trying to get GC to write why they need GC!

... Why do you want a GC?

a1b2c3
08-31-2009, 11:38 PM
Inviting all who are trying to get GC to write why they need GC!

mostly its because people feel they deserve to be categorized as permanent residents after being so many years in one country and to be treated at par with the other residents. Its like a temp worker or an intern wanting to convert to a regular status.

rkg000
08-31-2009, 11:39 PM
As somebody put it, it is just another VISA which gives us freedom from the immigration BS and the related expenses. Nothing more. There was a time when waiting for GC meant like waiting for that magic wand to solve all the problems (I wonder if that ever happened). Anyway, looking at few friends who got GC, I didn't really see any difference other than the mentioned immi BS. They share the same headaches with mortgages, utilities, car loans, job security (month-to-month paycheck expense maintenance), day care expenses, and what not.

We know what we stand to gain/loose if we don't get GC and that's driving us to wherever we are going, but does US govt. know what it stands to loose if the delays persist. My guess is it doesn't loose anything, otherwise we would all be GC holders by now. Nevertheless this roller coaster ride is fun.

hebbar77
08-31-2009, 11:45 PM
... Why do you want a GC?

Me!

I believe this country provides legal protection for every damn thing compared to any country.
You, your property, IP, and ...
So I believe I can have an edge when it comes to doing business with a GC in hand. It gives you access to many countries,unlimited resources in US(as if you were born here).


Bottomline : its a tool like simple lever which amplifies your results for same amount of effort.

psaxena
09-01-2009, 12:48 AM
the color of GC matches with my pants.

Pagal
09-01-2009, 03:33 AM
:)

just a paper convenience while I'm in USA..hasn't stopped me from doing anything yet and won't stop me in the future either...have made my peace...prefer career over GC.

pmpforgc
09-01-2009, 11:55 AM
I know many of us are stuck in GC mess.

GC give lot more advantage over H1/Student/Other Non-immigrant visa for TRAVEL, CAREER and SETTLMENT in US.

Still I would prefer most of those who get GC go towards Citizenship, as there is growing anger towards immigrants in locals that might bight even GC people by restricton laws in future, looking to the current trends of the Law maker to satisfy their constituents (nothing wrong with that)

Even with GC you can not get Most of the FEDERAL JOBS and Jobs which requires Security Clearances or such contracts.

Also now India offers Dual Citizenship in form of OCI (earlier people didnot wanted to give away their rights in India, so that kept them from aquaring citizenship, but with OCI card you have most rights for property, work and buisness in India even as US citizen)

So I hope most of you continue this painful travel from student to H1 to GC to Citizen and OCI.

dummgelauft
09-01-2009, 12:23 PM
I know many of us are stuck in GC mess.

GC give lot more advantage over H1/Student/Other Non-immigrant visa for TRAVEL, CAREER and SETTLMENT in US.

Still I would prefer most of those who get GC go towards Citizenship, as there is growing anger towards immigrants in locals that might bight even GC people by restricton laws in future, looking to the current trends of the Law maker to satisfy their constituents (nothing wrong with that)

Even with GC you can not get Most of the FEDERAL JOBS and Jobs which requires Security Clearances or such contracts.

Also now India offers Dual Citizenship in form of OCI (earlier people didnot wanted to give away their rights in India, so that kept them from aquaring citizenship, but with OCI card you have most rights for property, work and buisness in India even as US citizen)

So I hope most of you continue this painful travel from student to H1 to GC to Citizen and OCI.

..Aptech->Desi Consultant->H1B/L1->Clog EB queue->Waiting forver...ever..ever...

chi_shark
09-01-2009, 01:31 PM
i decided to pursue green card because i believe US is the best place to be an entrepreneur. thats it, nothing else. if i was in india i would have done the same for my career, but when I saw this place and read newspapers here for a year or two, i decided to stick around. its another matter that in those days (before retro) EB2 was available within 2 years. if i had known that it would have taken me so many years, i would probably have gone back and started something in india.

i am not saying i necessarily want to be rich, i just want to be on my own and control my future.

is that reason enough? i think this is a common reason amongst most of us to pursue GC.

Inviting all who are trying to get GC to write why they need GC!

Pagal
09-01-2009, 01:37 PM
Hello,

The advantages of GC that many state were more relevant 10 years ago...now a days, for all those who have moved thousands of miles away from homeland, world is our oyster! :)

Note on Travel on GC
Except if you want to go to Canada and Mexico, no other major country allows you to enter on GC unless you have a valid visa (esp on Indian/Chinese passport as India doesn't allow anyone to enter India without visa, except if you are from Nepal and Bhutan and same with China).

tushbush
09-01-2009, 02:09 PM
I am moved by your post bsbawa10, I wish that you get your GC ASAP.

I thought GC is the motive for many poeple for better opportunities and better quality of life. I never thought of a reason like this. I conmpletely agree with you and hope you get the GC ASAP (being someone with 2004 priority date).

yetanotherguyinline
09-01-2009, 02:10 PM
I want a GC because

1. I want switch careers into something totally different and at some point want to start something of my own. I believe that systems in US, at least at this point, provide much more support to an entrepreneur than systems in India (although the potential pay off in India these days might be higher).
2. I am having a hard time getting student loans at a decent rate and getting a GC in next year will be a huge financial benefit.
3. As much as I understand that uncertainty is part of life, I would like to minimize it to the extent possible. I would like the freedom to travel in and out of the country without any problems. I would like the freedom of not having to be worried about my immigration status and having to stick with same or similar occupation (I don't know about you, but I tend to get bored doing the same thing after 10 years!).
4. Ultimately GC is an option and all options have value. Getting GC is like getting a huge fat bonus but the value varies from person to person. I tried to go through pseudo-intellectual exercise (pseudo because lot of guessing is involved and I don't know the future) of pricing the value of GC and the whole exercise was very interesting to say the least!

psaxena
09-01-2009, 02:58 PM
Someone up there knew that he/she(your child) cannot be any well be taken care except for you and your wife and chose your house for his/her birth. So don't worry , its just you who think what will happen, someone already has made great plans for his/her settlement. There are no bugs in God's system, everything is well calculated chosen the best for everyone.
I am sure, the one who made you to come to US for your child, will also make sure to get the GC and the citizenship as this not just your destiny its your child's as well.

All the best...my friend


I need gc and ultimately citizenship for my autistic, non-verbal and mentally challenged child. We do not know what will happen to him when we (parents) pass away. In US atleast he can get taken care of by some oraganization. In India, he will come to streets. He is already in a very bad shape.

Mr. Brown
09-01-2009, 03:13 PM
I need gc and ultimately citizenship for my autistic, non-verbal and mentally challenged child. We do not know what will happen to him when we (parents) pass away. In US atleast he can get taken care of by some oraganization. In India, he will come to streets. He is already in a very bad shape.

You and your spouse are very good parents. It is your planning and hard work that will make certain your kiddo has a good life.

I am just glad that you are ahead of me in the line for GC. Hope you get it soon!

feedfront
09-01-2009, 03:28 PM
I need gc and ultimately citizenship for my autistic, non-verbal and mentally challenged child. We do not know what will happen to him when we (parents) pass away. In US atleast he can get taken care of by some oraganization. In India, he will come to streets. He is already in a very bad shape.

I wish you get GC sooner... All the best.

yetanotherguyinline
09-01-2009, 04:51 PM
[QUOTE=yetanotherguyinline;821438]I want a GC because

"1. I want switch careers into something totally different

I would like the freedom of not having to be worried about my immigration status and having to stick with same or similar occupation (I don't know about you, but I tend to get bored doing the same thing after 10 years!)."

I would like to prop up this discussion again. Please do not hate me in doing this. Since every like to get GC for a reason as quoted above, I would like, myself first and others second, to clear whether we are allowed to change occupation. This is not the first time I am posting it. But I could not get any convincing answer. So, finding answer might help every one. Since our gc is employment based and about future job,

1)How can we able to switch to different occupation that is all together different than the job onwhich u obtained GC.

2) Wouldn't this becomes an issue while obtaining citizenship?

3)When can we safely switch jobs like this?

4) I heard someone saying we should still be working on similar occupations. In other words, u can change jobs easily and become qualified for many positions. But all those job should be similar to the job based on which u obtained GC. Is this true? If true what problems one could get by switching jobs with completely different responsibilities and skill requirements?


Thought this might be worth to discuss about. For me GC is a fluid to run my life smoothly. Many jobs require u have atleast GC and other benifits one could get as many have already said.

My understanding is that GC is not tied to a profession. What stops me from acquiring new skills or new degree to get into a new profession?

chi_shark
09-01-2009, 05:57 PM
i think you are talking about GC to mars, this discussion about GC for the united states of america on planet earth.



My understanding is that GC is not tied to a profession. What stops me from acquiring new skills or new degree to get into a new profession?

mmrao2007
09-01-2009, 06:30 PM
To have peaceful sleep in the nights.
To visit parents and family back home, whenever we want.
To persue the career of interest.
To live in America as long as you want.
For equal opportunities as citizens have.
Lastly but not the least, To feel happy that we didn't waste all these years waiting for GC.

yetanotherguyinline
09-01-2009, 07:01 PM
i think you are talking about GC to mars, this discussion about GC for the united states of america on planet earth.

I was responding to travelind's comment about having to do a similar job after GC (I understand that it needs to be done for a while for citizenship purposes but not for ever). I might be ignorant about this aspect. Are we supposed to do same or similar job all our life after getting GC?

bsbawa10
09-01-2009, 07:33 PM
Thanks so much psaxena, Mr. Brown, feedfront and all for kind words for our child and us.

simple1
09-01-2009, 07:40 PM
As soon as you get GC you cannot abandon your "original sponsor" or "latest/last AC21 sponsor". You have to work there fulltime in specific role for a reasonable amount of time. I am assuming At least for a year or two. Even If you change jobs, it is important to maintain your fulltime “occupation” that is specified in petition for reasonable amount of time. I am assuming at least 2-3 years.

Being unemployed and drawing unemployment immediately after EBGC may also be bad.
Fulltime studies without reasonable employment with "original sponsor" or "latest/last AC21 sponsor" may also be bad.

I heard that citizenship interviewer may/can look at all your records including the category of your Green card and how well you have kept up. Don't mess-up your profile before citizenship.

I would say it is better and prudent to wait at least 3 years (if possible till you get USC) before the fulltime occupation switch (also check with attorney before you do it). Till that time part-time work/study is the only answer (which can be done even now with EAD).

I was responding to travelind's comment about having to do a similar job after GC (I understand that it needs to be done for a while for citizenship purposes but not for ever). I might be ignorant about this aspect. Are we supposed to do same or similar job all our life after getting GC?

simple1
09-01-2009, 08:17 PM
The reason why I am raising this issue is that by knowing the information helps us what to expect from GC and what not to?

I believe these are the benefits for principals, the dependants get the best deal.

Expect
- no lca, peition, visa extn, stamping, EVL etc.
- Atleast need not fear the longer vacations (>3months) outside usa will result in abandonment of AOS. some say it is not the case. I am not sure about this.
- peace of mind
- non willful unemployment may be ok (original/ac21 sponsor sacks you)
- Change of locations may be ok. You are entitled to do it with EAD as well.
- go and buy that affordable house/newcar you have always wanted, without fear of going back home.
- be better placed (you are not h1b/ead/l1b etc).
- get security clearance easily
- apply federal and state jobs easily.
- work part time in another occupation without the need of EAD.

Don’t expect (atleast immediately, check with attorney before you do it)
- to draw unemployment benefit
- to change "fulltime" occupations.
- to go "fulltime" on studies.
- leave original/ac21 sponsor

Never expect:
- longer vacations outside usa. you have to be in usa for atleast 7 months to maintain GC ( I would say to be safer 9-10 months)

raydon
09-01-2009, 08:54 PM
I want a GC because

1. I want switch careers into something totally different and at some point want to start something of my own. I believe that systems in US, at least at this point, provide much more support to an entrepreneur than systems in India (although the potential pay off in India these days might be higher).
2. I am having a hard time getting student loans at a decent rate and getting a GC in next year will be a huge financial benefit.
3. As much as I understand that uncertainty is part of life, I would like to minimize it to the extent possible. I would like the freedom to travel in and out of the country without any problems. I would like the freedom of not having to be worried about my immigration status and having to stick with same or similar occupation (I don't know about you, but I tend to get bored doing the same thing after 10 years!).
4. Ultimately GC is an option and all options have value. Getting GC is like getting a huge fat bonus but the value varies from person to person. I tried to go through pseudo-intellectual exercise (pseudo because lot of guessing is involved and I don't know the future) of pricing the value of GC and the whole exercise was very interesting to say the least!

I didn't go through 2. above, though I get partial reimbursement from my employer for the same. Points 1. and 3 mirror my feelings about GC. Can't really say much about 4.

yetanotherguyinline
09-01-2009, 09:49 PM
I believe these are the benefits for principals, the dependants get the best deal.

Expect
- no lca, peition, visa extn, stamping, EVL etc.
- Atleast need not fear the longer vacations (>3months) outside usa will result in abandonment of AOS. some say it is not the case. I am not sure about this.
- peace of mind
- non willful unemployment may be ok (original/ac21 sponsor sacks you)
- Change of locations may be ok. You are entitled to do it with EAD as well.
- go and buy that affordable house/newcar you have always wanted, without fear of going back home.
- be better placed (you are not h1b/ead/l1b etc).
- get security clearance easily
- apply federal and state jobs easily.
- work part time in another occupation without the need of EAD.

Don’t expect (atleast immediately, check with attorney before you do it)
- to draw unemployment benefit
- to change "fulltime" occupations.
- to go "fulltime" on studies.
- leave original/ac21 sponsor

Never expect:
- longer vacations outside usa. you have to be in usa for atleast 7 months to maintain GC ( I would say to be safer 9-10 months)

I see. I am doing MBA in a top 10 school part time right now and hope to have a GC in next two years. I got to discuss the issues you mentioned with my attorney and find a way out. I dont see how I can justify the MBA tution if I cannot switch careers or take a huge promotion.

hiralal
09-01-2009, 10:02 PM
This is a sensitive subject. here is my take: reservation is a hurdle but it is not a show stopper. At the same time, reservation must timeout.

caste based reservations violate the constitution.
(State of Madras Vs. Smt. Champakam Dorairanjan AIR 1951 SC 226) clearly shows that caste based reservations as per Communal Award violates Article 15(1). For starters Constiitution was primarly authored by Ambetkar a dalit.

Already creamy layer is excluded.
. I agree and timeout is a must ..but that is a dream. Indian political system is flawed and inferior (including the constitution) ..with the parliamentary system -- idiots become chief ministers and ministers. India came close to electing a foreigner as PM.
why reservations in higher colleges, pvt colleges, doctors etc ...that's why MF like vp singh would go abroad at tax payers expense.
why the need for reservations / preference in promotions .... in my engg college we had reservations ..and guess who qualified ..people from reserved caste whose parents had petrol pumps, chairmans etc etc ..while normal category kids were from poor families ..well I can go on and on ..no wonder people just want their kids to flee India !!!

simple1
09-02-2009, 03:37 AM
GC is an immigrant visa based on Form I-140 (“immigrant petition”) for Future JOB. It is at your best interest to honor and document the original intent working with original/ac21 sponsor in fulltime same/similar occupation ( in perm/i140 ) for a reasonable amount of time.

If new circumstances prevents you from working for original/ac21 sponsor (like sponsor sacks you) document that too showing it as sponsors decision.

I think promotions (with original/ac21 sponsor) may be ok (do check with attorney) as long as you can document that the promoted job is a progression of the original occupation.

While there is no legal document setting the number of years in stone. I heard many attorneys advice to stay put for aleast 2 years.

Do publish your attorney's reply in this thread.

I see. I am doing MBA in a top 10 school part time right now and hope to have a GC in next two years. I got to discuss the issues you mentioned with my attorney and find a way out. I dont see how I can justify the MBA tution if I cannot switch careers or take a huge promotion.

chi_shark
09-02-2009, 01:34 PM
i have heard that it is enough to do 6 months time from my lawyer

GC is an immigrant visa based on Form I-140 (“immigrant petition”) for Future JOB. It is at your best interest to honor and document the original intent working with original/ac21 sponsor in fulltime same/similar occupation ( in perm/i140 ) for a reasonable amount of time.

If new circumstances prevents you from working for original/ac21 sponsor (like sponsor sacks you) document that too showing it as sponsors decision.

I think promotions (with original/ac21 sponsor) may be ok (do check with attorney) as long as you can document that the promoted job is a progression of the original occupation.

While there is no legal document setting the number of years in stone. I heard many attorneys advice to stay put for aleast 2 years.

Do publish your attorney's reply in this thread.

simple1
09-02-2009, 02:23 PM
Your attorney is misleading you.
1. 6 months is not a permanent job.
2. it is not safe to change the occupation immediately. Your Petition was not approved for the 2nd occupation. It may be illegal to work "fulltime" in occupation that was not approved in perm/I140.

With abrupt changes you are inviting trouble. Why are you willing to risk it after such a long wait ?

The safer route will be parttime on new occupation for few years and then make a fulltime switch.

here is Ron's reply.
What's the safe time period to leave GC sponsor in my case? - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8727-whats-the-safe-time-period-to-leave-gc-sponsor-in-my-case.html)

here is a def of perm and temp from uscis for EB-1(b) that may be applicable here. which is atleast 1 year for eb1b.
http://www.hooyou.com/eb-1/permanentemp.html

a FB gc is expected to stay with spouse for aleast 2+ years and show financial and family ties (like children etc). the same I think will apply here to show the honor of intent. I am assuming atleast 2+years with sponsor and atleast 3+ year in "fulltime" occupation that is in perm/i140. ( do check with a good attorney, who can explain their own answers in detailed how&why )

i have heard that it is enough to do 6 months time from my lawyer

chi_shark
09-02-2009, 03:09 PM
your language is way too categorical for me to seriously weigh. i know for a fact that there are no directly stated guidelines on this issue. which, to me, means your statements numbered 1. and 2. are flat speculation.

i think six months is ok as long as you can demonstrate existence of intent when you actually filed for 485/140. after that you can show how you gravitated towards a different type of job. i read your link about from gotcher's site and it looks like even he has in fact written the same thing without stating any actual time frame.

in marriage based cases, there have been many known cases of fraud because of which they have more scrutiny on that side.

besides, i have not heard of ANY case where citizenship was actually denied for this reason. this last bit does not mean a whole lot - it just means that i need to dig deeper to see if the issue of changing jobs is really an issue.

Your attorney is misleading you.
1. 6 months is not a permanent job.
2. it is not safe to change the occupation immediately. Your Petition was not approved for the 2nd occupation. It may be illegal to work "fulltime" in occupation that was not approved in perm/I140.

With abrupt changes you are inviting trouble. Why are you willing to risk it after such a long wait ?

The safer route will be parttime on new occupation for few years and then make a fulltime switch.

here is Ron's reply.
What's the safe time period to leave GC sponsor in my case? - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8727-whats-the-safe-time-period-to-leave-gc-sponsor-in-my-case.html)

here is a def of perm and temp from uscis for EB-1(b) that may be applicable here. which is atleast 1 year for eb1b.
http://www.hooyou.com/eb-1/permanentemp.html

a FB gc is expected to stay with spouse for aleast 2+ years and show financial and family ties (like children etc). the same I think will apply here to show the honor of intent. I am assuming atleast 2+years with sponsor and atleast 3+ year in "fulltime" occupation that is in perm/i140. ( do check with a good attorney, who can explain their own answers in detailed how&why )

simple1
09-02-2009, 03:25 PM
Ok, immediately changing occupations and sponsor sounds a clear "bait and switch" fraud to me. I am no longer available to perform the original occupation, I want to switch to a new one.
Fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud)
Bait and switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch)
It is no way diffrent from sham marriage.

All I am saying is take The safer route (parttime on occupation for few years and then make a fulltime switch). Why invite trouble. We have already waited so long. We can't afford to loose it or have problems at the time of naturalization.

Every one must weigh their decisions and the path they want to take.

your language is way too categorical for me to seriously weigh. i know for a fact that there are no directly stated guidelines on this issue. which, to me, means your statements numbered 1. and 2. are flat speculation.

i think six months is ok as long as you can demonstrate existence of intent when you actually filed for 485/140. after that you can show how you gravitated towards a different type of job. i read your link about from gotcher's site and it looks like even he has in fact written the same thing without stating any actual time frame.

in marriage based cases, there have been many known cases of fraud because of which they have more scrutiny on that side.

besides, i have not heard of ANY case where citizenship was actually denied for this reason. this last bit does not mean a whole lot - it just means that i need to dig deeper to see if the issue of changing jobs is really an issue.

yetanotherguyinline
09-02-2009, 04:57 PM
Ok, immediately changing occupations and sponsor sounds a clear "bait and switch" fraud to me. I am no longer available to perform the original occupation, I want to switch to a new one.
Fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud)
Bait and switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch)
It is no way diffrent from sham marriage.

All I am saying is take The safer route (parttime on occupation for few years and then make a fulltime switch). Why invite trouble. We have already waited so long. We can't afford to loose it or have problems at the time of naturalization.

Every one must weigh their decisions and the path they want to take.

Agree that switching the very next day is fraud. But hiring your replacement, training him or her and then finding a more professionally fulfilling job in your own company is not fraud. Also getting promoted in your own firm is not fraud either. For me personally, hiring someone and training him or her will easily take at least a year! Plus we have all waited at least a decade for GC, so its high time most of us accepted the promotions that were offered to us long time ago (which we rejected in the name of GC).

gcpool
09-02-2009, 05:25 PM
Trust me in this economy it has been a great peace of mind.
No worries about renewals of EAD or AD or drivers license.
Travel is also less stressful.

Also if you are planning to be here for a longer time you can start thinking of purchasing a house, moving to another city, employer, buying costlier stuff without the nagging feeling of uncertainty

simple1
09-02-2009, 05:48 PM
In the context of replacement (to leave sponsor, not promotions) how will the sponsor will accept the following ?
- 1 year lead time
- pay two people to perform a single job in US location.

Leaving sponsor:
Other than downsizing, outofbusiness, etc. I could not find valid "non willfull" reason to leave sponsor with in reasonable time.

leaving "fulltime" occupation:
I am not sure how people assume "fulltime" occupation changes are ok, that too with in a year. There has to be huge changes in jobmarket to account for "non willful" occupation change. Like shrinking of manufacturing(due to outsourcing) and retail(due to etailing) sector. "Will full" occupation changes without jobmarket tests (perm/i140) with in reasonable time is a fraud (if its not fraud then what else is it) ?

Most of us are actually in growth areas with skills shortage( that is precisely the reason you got perm/I140 approved). I am not sure how can one justify willful fulltime occupation change.

Agree that switching the very next day is fraud. But hiring your replacement, training him or her and then finding a more professionally fulfilling job in your own company is not fraud. Also getting promoted in your own firm is not fraud either. For me personally, hiring someone and training him or her will easily take at least a year! Plus we have all waited at least a decade for GC, so its high time most of us accepted the promotions that were offered to us long time ago (which we rejected in the name of GC).

chi_shark
09-02-2009, 06:06 PM
i think this is way too much thinking for a small matter on the part of simple1. i totally dont understand what law is he/she basing these comments on...

In the context of replacement (to leave sponsor, not promotions) how the sponsor will accept the following ?
- 1 year lead time
- pay two people to perform a single job in US location.

Leaving sponsor:
Other than downsizing, outofbusiness, etc. I could not find valid "non willfull" reason to leave sponsor with in reasonable time.

leaving "fulltime" occupation:
I am not sure how people assume "fulltime" occupation changes are ok, that too with in a year. There has to be huge changes in jobmarket to account for "non willful" occupation change. Like shrinking of manufacturing(due to outsourcing) and retail(due to etailing) sector. "Will full" occupation changes without jobmarket tests (perm/i140) with in reasonable time is a fraud (if its not fraud then what else is it) ?

Most of us are actually in growth areas with skills shortage( that is precisely the reason you got perm/I140 approved). I am not sure how can one justify willful fulltime occupation change.

vxg
09-02-2009, 07:51 PM
Inviting all who are trying to get GC to write why they need GC!

Here is why:
1. You can join any job and grow your career.
2. Within your own company you do not have to pass on great opportunities because your GC will be at risk if job responsibilities change. I have to pass Great offers and my Executive VP got frustrated and told me that i must work in different divisions of company and gain a broader experience before the company can promote me to senior management.
3. Avoid frustration when you see someone who is less capable than you gets a better job and you cannot because you do not have GC.
4. Do not have to stand in line at US consulate in INDIA and waste precious days at home speaking to obnoxious consulate staff for H-1 visa stamp.
5. If laid off can work at any place while looking for a job.
6. GC leads to citizenship and that gives you a voice in country's election.
7. The citizenship enables you to go for various educational assistance for kids when they are ready for college.

and the list can go on but i need to leave..

yetanotherguyinline
09-02-2009, 08:17 PM
i think this is way too much thinking for a small matter on the part of simple1. i totally dont understand what law is he/she basing these comments on...

Pipe dreams for now, let me think about this if and when I get my gc :D:D:D

simple1
09-02-2009, 08:51 PM
h1b, h1c, h2a, h2b, d1 are temporary with a start and end date in area/wage specified by icert/LCA.
eb2/3 are permenant without definte end date in area/wage specified by icert/Perm.

You cannot work on non certified area in h1b. How are you assuming you can in eb2/3 ?

I think occupation change is not a small matter. Your Entire application (and all aspects in it) is based "certifies employment" that is approved after Perm that includes
- occupation
- fulltime ( around 40 hours) and permanent job (without end date)
- specific employer.
- prevailing wage
- location
that leads to PR. The PR is granted so that you can be "admitted to take up the certified employment", that is your primary purpose.

The “Priority date” you covert is based on perm.

certified employment:
http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pdf/PERM_Final_Rule_12-27-04_FR.pdf
page 41.
With respect to this last comment, we note the employer must certify on the ETA Form 9089 (see item N.1 under Employer Declaration) as follows: ‘‘The offered wage equals or exceeds the prevailing wage and the employer will pay the prevailing wage from the time permanent residency is granted or from the time the alien is admitted to take up the certified employment’’. This is essentially the same policy expressed on page 34 of Technical Assistance Guide No. 656 Labor Certifications.

i think this is way too much thinking for a small matter on the part of simple1. i totally dont understand what law is he/she basing these comments on...

vbkris77
09-02-2009, 09:01 PM
h1b, h1c, h2a, h2b, d1 are temporary with a start and end date in area/wage specified by icert/LCA.
eb2/3 are permenant without definte end date in area/wage specified by icert/Perm.

You cannot work on non certified area in h1b. How are you assuming you can in eb2/3 ?

I think occupation change is not a small matter. Your Entire application (and all aspects in it) is based on Perm that "certifies employment" based on
- occupation
- fulltime ( around 40 hours) and permanent job (without end date)
- specific employer.
- prevailing wage
- location
that leads to PR. The PR is granted so that you can be "admitted to take up the certified employment", that is your primary purpose.

The “Priority date” you covert is based on perm.

certified employment:
http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pdf/PERM_Final_Rule_12-27-04_FR.pdf
page 41.
With respect to this last comment, we note the employer must certify on the ETA Form 9089 (see item N.1 under Employer Declaration) as follows: ‘‘The offered wage equals or exceeds the prevailing wage and the employer will pay the prevailing wage from the time permanent residency is granted or from the time the alien is admitted to take up the certified employment’’. This is essentially the same policy expressed on page 34 of Technical Assistance Guide No. 656 Labor Certifications.

All this is true, if PERM certification will lead to GC in a meaningfull time. If one is already working in the same capacity and PERM and EB were for mere documentary purposes and are significantly delayed due to administrative delays on their part, One need not screwup career any more than required. AC21 intent was that. In AC21, you could even self sponsor and CIS can't even ask for A2P after initial I140 is approved.

It is enough if you can prove that you had a good faith intention to take up the job and the terms of the job or situation changed significantly that you had to move on after EB Visa is approved, it is acceptable.

All those rules are in place to protect the individual in the new country. But it is hardly any new experience, if all of us spent atleast 10 years in a row before they gave GC. It is however very important that you should not be a public charge while venturing out. That will make you deportable.

simple1
09-02-2009, 11:16 PM
True, I fully agree with you on the humanitarian/fairness part of the equation.

I also agree with you on self employment.
If you invoke ac21 with self employment, then your path will be self employment after GC ( EVL and A2p may not be required, though I have not seen any one taking that step yet.).

--- Now the question under debate ----
Regardless of self/sponsor Yates memo still insists on "same or similar".

The question is how safe it is to change “fulltime” occupation that is not perm/I140 certified. This is of particular concern as N400 application has "Part 6: Information about Your Residence and Employment" with Occupation column. CIS has access to PERM/I140, will they review it at the time of N400 ? If so wont they find out diff ? In most cases, the A# in N400 was originally issued at the time of I140.

How to meet any future "fulltime" occupation related challenge queries at the time of naturalization interview? I am not referring to promotion in same occupation like developer to development manager that shows some progression of career with in the same industry. I am referring to moving from software development to totally non related "business management" area.

All this is true, if PERM certification will lead to GC in a meaningfull time. If one is already working in the same capacity and PERM and EB were for mere documentary purposes and are significantly delayed due to administrative delays on their part, One need not screwup career any more than required. AC21 intent was that. In AC21, you could even self sponsor and CIS can't even ask for A2P after initial I140 is approved.

It is enough if you can prove that you had a good faith intention to take up the job and the terms of the job or situation changed significantly that you had to move on after EB Visa is approved, it is acceptable.

All those rules are in place to protect the individual in the new country. But it is hardly any new experience, if all of us spent atleast 10 years in a row before they gave GC. It is however very important that you should not be a public charge while venturing out. That will make you deportable.

vbkris77
09-03-2009, 12:07 AM
True, I fully agree with you on the humanitarian/fairness part of the equation.

How to meet any future "fulltime" occupation related challenge queries at the time of naturalization interview? I am not referring to promotion in same occupation like developer to development manager that shows some progression of career with in the same industry. I am referring to moving from software development to totally non related "business management" area.

The fact that you are allowed a perm. residence gives you a right to do what ever it takes for you to live as a resident in USA. If it requires a profession shift so be it. In my view.