PDA

View Full Version : Announcement of the report with skilled immigration fixes expected today at 3pm


Pages : [1] 2

Administrator2
07-15-2015, 10:09 AM
This is regarding the positive announcement that was earlier expected to come out in May:
https://www.facebook.com/ImmigrationVoice/posts/911030932296465

This announcement was delayed due to technology implementation issues as we subsequently shared here:
https://www.facebook.com/ImmigrationVoice/posts/912722582127300

We are pleased to share that the specific positive announcement is expected to come today in the form of the report announcing new fixes. We have been working on these fixes for many years. This is the first time that fixes will be announced officially by the Administration. And we have a lot to be thankful for to the Obama Administration and the staff at White House, DHS, USCIS and State Department.

The report will also have technology piece incorporated. The content of the fixes in the report is expected to be the same. The announcement is expected around 3pm today. So please standby for the official announcement.

After the announcement, we will need all hands on the deck to help push for the early implementation of the fixes in the report.

Thank you,
Immigration Voice

Administrator2
07-15-2015, 10:09 AM
Summary of new actions - Fact Sheet:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/fact_sheet_visa_modernization.pdf

Full report on Visa Modernization:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/final_visa_modernization_report1.pdf

Focusing on Digital Services - Blog Post:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/07/15/bringing-our-immigration-system-digital-age

Administrator2
07-15-2015, 10:09 AM
PART 1. JULY 15, 2015 UPDATE & CLARIFICATIONS. PLEASE LIKE AND SHARE THIS SO THAT ALL CONFUSION CAN BE CLEARED ABOUT THE REPORT ON THE FORUMS.
Please continue to visit immigrationvoice.org and this page for more information and action items in the days to come.
======
Question: IV asked us to have "Papers Ready". If this is just a report I don't understand why you asked us to have papers ready.
IV's Answer: We have said this before, but some folks keep asking the same question again. The original plan was to make VB current for the month of July. That is why we provided heads up to folks to get papers ready. Subsequently, because of the EAD for H4 lawsuit, Administration was concerned about a possible lawsuit for making VB current. dropped the plan for making VB current. So there was change of plan. In retrospect we did the right thing for sharing what was going on then. If you got papers ready, that will not hurt anyone, you will need them at some point. Many folks will soon be able to use the documents in October.
======
Question: The report looks like a joke! No EAD for approved 140, no recapture..?
IVs Answer: Recapture?? Did anyone ever say that there will be recapture in this report?
======
Question: Although most points were already shared by IV, it's good that it's on official paper. Cheers!
It also appears that the employee will be free after 1 year of I-140 approval, which contradicts with what we asked for (no wait time). Please confirm.
IS there a way the community/we can help speed up the rule making?
IVs Answer: Yes, we asked for it. But some idiots kept on "tweeting" that they wanted to wait 1 year "ONLY". We kept on asking not to tweet the wrong message, but some people just don't learn, do they?
======
Question: Why does this report not contain EAD for I-140?
IVs Answer: This report is about new fixes. The goal is to make public the new fixes that the Administration plans to implement. Again, these are "NEW" fixes, in addition to the existing fixes that were announced earlier, including EAD for I-140.
Why this report is important?
Every one is so focused on EAD for I-140. But what good is EAD for I140 if you cannot change employers or jobs. Or if your employer revokes your I140, invalidating your I140, and thus EAD. What is the point of having an EAD, but having to start your green card process all over again if you change your employer or jobs. And what jobs can one change into using EAD for I140.
This report is an announcement for the fixes that will provide all these answers.
1.) Your employer will be unable to revoke your approved I140 after 1 year.
2.) You can change employer using EAD without having to start your green card process all over again.
3.) Using EAD for I140, you will now be able to change jobs as defined by Same or Similar
In essence, the fixes announced in this report are nuanced, but they will allow you to live with freedoms while on EAD, these freedoms you will otherwise get after getting green card.
Without these fixes, you are throw your EAD for I140 in the dustbin. That is the relevance of this report. Most people waiting in green cards is unable to complete understand the relevance of this report yet. But in time they will understand the relevance. That is why these are very very important fixes. EVERYONE in backlogs will be affected by this report.
Because of Visa Modernization, VB dates are expected to move significantly. That will allow a lot more folks to file for AOS. So if you have prepared your documents, then that is good because a lot of folks are expected to be able to to use them starting October.
Hope this clarifies the significance.
====
Question: It seems the purpose of today's report publication was more for rationalization of executive action. It doesn't do anything more than to provide justification for rules changes and relief being proposed by the administration. The target audience are the skeptics who are against any immigration changes.
I am guessing major movements towards actual implementation would be around the elections next year. Same goes for HR 213 which is waiting for the 2016 elections so the parties can influence voters.
But on the positive side, this is good for building momentum and there is nothing negative to suggest administration is going back on anything promised.
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: Lets put things in perspective and weigh things accordingly. This has nothing to do with the election or election outcome. We don't expect anyone to will win or lose elections because pending green card petition applicants will be able to change jobs, or, because H.R.213 will pass. So this has nothing to do with election. Amplifying or over-blowing this is not helpful. But it is also important to see things in the right prespective because this report makes nuanced but significant changes to the system on the group allowing job mobility to people.
=====
Question: Lastly and more worrisome: Right now, a worker's priority date is his/her to keep the minute after I-140 approval. Is the intent of the point in the report that it will now only be available 1 year after I-140 approval?
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: No, it means that after 1 year, you will not have to restart your green card process even if you change employer. You will be able to change employer and still continue with the same green card petition. And yes, you will still retain your priority date.
===
Question: Repeating my question from before . Actually, I'm really bothered that there's nothing in this report that hints about job mobility and improved handling of job changes, nothing that ties back to the proposed rule making by DSH (EAD + AP after I-140).
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: To the contrary, all the fixes in the report are designed to create an environment of job mobility for applicants with approved I-140. All these fixes are necessary in order to allow job mobility using EAD after I140.
The purpose of all these changes is to provide job mobility to applicants with approved I-140. You can even work for the current employer on EAD immediately after the approval of I-140. Infact, you will be able to change jobs using EAD from I-140, but your employer will have the ability to revoke your I-140 until 1 year. This means. if you have an understanding with the petitioning employer that they will not withdraw your I-140, then, after the implementation of these fixes, you will be able to change employer or jobs immediately after I-140 approval on EAD.
===

Administrator2
07-15-2015, 10:09 AM
.PART 2. JULY 16, 2015 UPDATE & CLARIFICATIONS. PLEASE LIKE AND SHARE THIS SO THAT ALL CONFUSION CAN BE CLEARED ABOUT THE REPORT ON THE FORUMS.
Please continue to visit immigrationvoice.org and this page for more information and action items in the days to come.
======
Question: How will these fixes help me. When will I get my Green Card”
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: Most people probably dont understand the meaning of these fixes. That is why it doesnt sound appealing.
EAD for I140 is useless if you cant change job, or get promotion, or if your employer withdraws I140. These fixes make your EAD for I140 meaningful. Without these fixes, you can pretty much throw your EAD in the dustbin. With these fixes, you will be able to live on EAD nearly close to how you live with a green card. Hope this make sense and clarifies the reason for these fixes.
We understand that most immigrants are simple minded folks. Most of us think that if we have EAD, then that is good enough. But what if employer withdraws your 140, invalidating your EAD. What good is EAD if you cannot change employer without having to start your green card all over again. What good is EAD if you cannot use it to change job or employer, or take a promotion.
And this report ensures you have those rights that one otherwise would get with green card. There is no law that says you will get these freedoms with Green cards only. And theae fixes will ensure you are mostly free. Hope this explains why there is a gift of freedom in the box, but you are unable to see it.
======
Question: I do not know whether I should say "Good job IV"...I can't convince myself as to what in the world is called a "technical glitch" (back in May) when it is a simple report release....it is not as if all the things mentioned in the report are already implemented....
Are we saying that there is a technical glitch in White House to upload a simple report and that took 2.5 months to fix?
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: Why dont you call the WH and ask yourself? We are only telling the truth as we are told. And with that, we have no incentive to convice you or anyone else with the cause for the delay. It may seem simple to you, maybe you dont understand the complexity of the process or the change, who knows, but please do let us know the nature of technical glitch when you get that from WH.
Look, at the end of the day, WH or DHS or USCIS owes you nothing, nada, zero. You might as well rot in hell, and no body is responsible for you. The fact that someone listened and did something that will help improve the condition of your life, even if you cant see it now, in time you will. Srini Tata, there is nothing wrong in showing some appreciation once in while, specifically when someone does something for you. Funny how things work, because you are worried about 2.5 months delay (in the past) without caring much about how these fixes will effect your next 10 years.
And if you think you paying taxes entitles you for anything then why are you looking for answers here? Did you pay taxes to us?
===
Question: how long would it take to implement these fixes.. 1 / 2 / 3../ n years ?
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: You dont trust the government, you want timeline, you dont like the fixes, they are not enough!
Is there something else? If you dont want to step up and do your share, other than posting when something comes out, then how do you expect to have any influence over the changes? Try to make your own commitment, and not ask others for things for which you havent worked for.
As for the timeline - some fixes will be done through Memo, and could be implemented in 2-3 months, some will need to go through regulatory process, it could take up to an year’
=====
Question: Any update on "Pre-register" after 1-140 ? Is that completely DEAD?
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: Please STOP calling it preregister and EAD For I140. You and others dont know, but using these terms abd repeatedly asking the same question over and over again has severely affect your chance of filing AOS
These are new fixes, in addition to EAD for I140. EAD for I140 is no good without these fixes.
===
Question: Are we saying that there is a technical glitch in White House to upload a simple report and that took 2.5 months to fix?

IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer:Why dont you call the WH and ask yourself? We are only telling the truth as we are told. And with that, we have no incentive to convince you or anyone else with the cause for the delay. It may seem simple to you, maybe you dont understand the complexity of the process or the change, who knows, but please do let us know the nature of technical glitch when you get that from WH.
Look, at the end of the day, WH or DHS or USCIS owes you nothing, nada, zero. The fact that someone listened and did something that will help improve the condition of your life, even if you cant see it now, in time you will. There is nothing wrong in showing some appreciation once in while, specifically when someone does something for you. Funny how things work, because you are worried about 2.5 months delay (in the past) without caring much about how these fixes will effect your next 10 years.

===

Question: God forbid if documented actions don't happen in near future then? What about criticisms?
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: It does not matter. We do not care. People who criticize only hurt themselves and their own cause. We will continue to put in the best efforts as long as we are there in the organization. There are many volunteers who take time off from work, spend nights and weekends, travel on their own money to attend meetings. We have had many successes in the past due to the tireless and thankless work. Check the Immigrationvoice timeline on our immigration voice.org website and you will know what we have achieved so far due to the efforts of everyone involved. Just because someone has not got his green card in the mail yesterday or missed on H1B lottery does not mean Immigrationvoice is at fault. He/She is actually at fault for not standing up for himself when we organize action items and advocacy days in DC. The point is if we work for the solution we will get the satisfaction of having done something meaningful for our problems instead of spending time on a computer shooting off criticisms to the only organization that is truly working in the interest of high skilled immigrant community. Working hard is in our hands, the fruits are not and it does not have a timeline. But past has shown that fruits do happen with sincere efforts. With more people joining the efforts, many more will happen in the near future. We are very certain.

===
Question: Can we keep focus on our email,fax,twitter message.and keep calling XYZ.
only Aggressive action can achieve our goal.

IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: NO NO NO. This is called heckling and spamming. This is NOT ADVOCACY. You will hurt yourself by spamming. We have explained so many times on the forums why all this is useless and actually will hurt everyone including yourself. Unless something like this is coordinated for a specific message and from an organization it means nothing. The organization MUST have boots on the ground and regularly meeting lawmakers. This so called emailing/tweeting/calling etc is used sparingly by advocacy organizations when the timing is right, within a short window of time to relay a specific message FROM AN ORGANIZATION that the organization is advocating by investing a lot in lobbying and have lot of credibility in the eyes of lawmakers. Such campaigns are used only to augment a specific action item or to show suport for a particular cause among constituents. They are not meant to irritate recipients. What you are suggesting is a barrage of tweets/emails and faxes that will IRRITATE recipients. Do you really think someone will look into your problem after you irritate them? Grow up and think hard before trying such rogue actions without consulting people who are doing advocacy for almost a decade now.

It would be very naive to think that any rule or law happened by simply sending emails or tweets or even creating a facebook page for any rule or a website like Immigrationvoice.org. It means nothing. The real work is shoe and leather advocacy in DC where we go and meet lawmakers and officials in person again and again, month after months and years after years. It takes many meetings, many action items, a lot of advocacy to move the needle by an inch. It will be false to assume some rule making happened because someone created a facebook page and had a few newspaper articles. We have done so many newspaper articles and TV interviews in the early days of IV, Been there and done that. What matters is actual shoe and leather advocacy and everything else is just noise around the real thing.

Get active on Immigrationvoice.org, attend advocacy days in DC, be a volunteer, meet local lawmakers in person, contribute your time and money to the organization, bring awareness etc etc. You can do a lot by not wasting your time on tweeting/faxing/emailing etc or spending lot of time on forums, trackers and predictions... and doing something that will truly help yourself and others like you.

==

Question: what is tweak in calculation which will make the visa bulletin movement significant?

IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer :) There is so much 'bad' influence of the data by all these prediction websites. As we have said in the past stop wasting time on them because they will never be accurate predictions because of the nature of this animal. It is just a way for some websites to get more traffic and business. Focus on policy changes instead.

===

hil3182
07-15-2015, 10:23 AM
This is regarding the positive announcement that was earlier expected to come out in May:
https://www.facebook.com/ImmigrationVoice/posts/911030932296465

This announcement was delayed due to technology implementation issues as we subsequently shared here:
https://www.facebook.com/ImmigrationVoice/posts/912722582127300

We are pleased to share that the specific positive announcement is expected to come today in the form of the report announcing new fixes. We have been working on these fixes for many years. This is the first time that fixes will be announced officially by the Administration. And we have a lot to be thankful for to the Obama Administration and the staff at White House, DHS, USCIS and State Department.

The report will also have technology piece incorporated. The content of the fixes in the report is expected to be the same. The announcement is expected around 3pm today. So please standby for the official announcement.

After the announcement, we will need all hands on the deck to help push for the early implementation of the fixes in the report.

Thank you,
Immigration Voice


You the man!

idrismca
07-15-2015, 10:33 AM
finally ... thanks for the update

hil3182
07-15-2015, 11:02 AM
I would like to add one thing to what Administrator2 has said.

We are only passing along information that we receive (and are authorized to share) from the WH - so, if it doesn't materialize (or materializes at a different time), please try to be understanding.


Everyone here is a volunteer. No one here is making any money off this. I have personally spent $1500.00 and a month's worth of man hours in 2015 alone pushing for various initiatives (mostly HR.213 and the EO).

So, please keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best.

skrovvidi
07-15-2015, 11:25 AM
Looking forward to "Hope and Change" for Legal Immigrants from Obama administration

DMX17
07-15-2015, 11:38 AM
Excellent! Thanks for heads up and big thanks to all the volunteers who are helping me and others like me!

Hope this report will have the missing and the most speculated piece of the puzzle i.e. "significant date movement". Fingers crossed.

srinivas_o
07-15-2015, 11:42 AM
Looking forward to the announcement...

Great job everybody.

GC2022
07-15-2015, 11:43 AM
Gentlemen,

take a moment to be proud of yourselves for what you have done for all of us.

Good wishes.

moon_walker333
07-15-2015, 11:50 AM
IV Leaders, I and I think all the other fellow members appreciate all that you have done and put into reaching this milestone.

THANKS A TON!!! YOU ROCK!! KEEP ROCKING AND INSPIRING OTHERS LIKE US!

pari1234
07-15-2015, 12:02 PM
I would like to add one thing to what Administrator2 has said.

We are only passing along information that we receive (and are authorized to share) from the WH - so, if it doesn't materialize (or materializes at a different time), please try to be understanding.


Everyone here is a volunteer. No one here is making any money off this. I have personally spent $1500.00 and a month's worth of man hours in 2015 alone pushing for various initiatives (mostly HR.213 and the EO).

So, please keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best.


Appreciate it!! In fact, Saying "Appreciate it"- is not enough!!!

Suva
07-15-2015, 12:03 PM
Thanks IV

SatnamSingh
07-15-2015, 12:14 PM
1) Does that mean we need to keep our documents ready ?
2) Announcement is abt the rule making process or legal immigrants get intermediate relief i.e. approved I-140 getting EAD

hil3182
07-15-2015, 12:20 PM
1) Does that mean we need to keep our documents ready ?
2) Announcement is abt the rule making process or legal immigrants get intermediate relief i.e. approved I-140 getting EAD

You can wait a few hours.

gc4evet
07-15-2015, 12:43 PM
Thanks IV for the great work waiting for positive announcement

whiteStallion
07-15-2015, 01:59 PM
This is great news, thanks again to IV and all the volunteers for making this happen .

whiteStallion
07-15-2015, 03:10 PM
Report published here : https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/final_visa_modernization_report1.pdf

thokkalohdi
07-15-2015, 03:22 PM
no mention of EAD cards or i140.... just AC21 :(:(:(:(:(:(

rahdirs
07-15-2015, 03:26 PM
Read Page 30. No timelines yet.. but like OP said, time for us to start pushing to get this moving.

rahdirs
07-15-2015, 03:29 PM
Ties back to RIN: 1615-AC05 I guess. A very positive step!!

nvik16
07-15-2015, 03:31 PM
Admins,
Could you please comment on the report. The report doesn't have specific timelines. Is that expected ?

skrovvidi
07-15-2015, 03:32 PM
"Further increase job flexibility by enabling individuals whose employment-sponsored immigrant visa petitions have been approved for more than one year to retain eligibility for LPR status despite the petitioning employer closing its business or seeking to withdraw the approved petition;"

Good agenda...

thokkalohdi
07-15-2015, 03:34 PM
am i the only one who didnt find the key word "authorization" anywhere in the document related to Employment based immigration??

All they talk about is "DHS" fixes to AC21... nothing about USCIS allowing a rule to provide work authorizations??

did everyone read it correctly??

timeline is last of the worries, content is more important...

AceMan
07-15-2015, 03:44 PM
Streamlining the Legal Immigration System
Employment-based visa issuance
DHS, State
• Update monthly visa bulletin
• Refine monthly allocation of visas
• Improve numerically controlled immigrant visa appointments
• Clarify and expand protections for employment-based immigrants and nonimmigrants

Enhance opportunities for certain employment-based immigrants and nonimmigrants DHS
Provide greater clarity and certainty to H-1B beneficiaries and employers DHS
Enhance information to encourage reasonable deference to prior adjudications of H-1B and L-1 petitions DHS
Strengthen employer support for U.S.-born workers in STEM fields DHS
Clarify which nonimmigrant classifications permit for dual intent DHS, State
Provide greater clarity and certainty to streamline nonimmigrant visa employment petition returns to USCIS

thokkalohdi
07-15-2015, 03:47 PM
this report is utter BS... where is the pre-registration?? where is providing authorization to change employers... all it says its "guidance on how to change jobs", whats new in the report.. or am i looking at wrong report???

i am no legal expert.. but language has changed a lot and there is nothing of sorts regarding authorization... am i missing something?

4WatItsWorth
07-15-2015, 03:49 PM
Report published here : https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/final_visa_modernization_report1.pdfThe report looks like a joke! No EAD for approved 140, no recapture..?

moon_walker333
07-15-2015, 03:53 PM
Refer to following links shared by IV on their Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/ImmigrationVoice

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/fact_sheet_visa_modernization.pdf

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/final_visa_modernization_report1.pdf

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/07/15/bringing-our-immigration-system-digital-age

anshu
07-15-2015, 03:58 PM
The report looks like a joke! No EAD for approved 140, no recapture..?

Hi hope????, and of the "Babaji ka Thullu"

hil3182
07-15-2015, 04:00 PM
It isn't as bad as it looks.

The report needs to be read in conjunction with the information the WH shared with us earlier (and we shared with you on 05/06 on FB).

anshu
07-15-2015, 04:03 PM
Hi hope????, and of the "Babaji ka Thullu"

I like Mr. Bush, one shot in 2007 clear everything, not like Obama. What the hack modernization of visa bulletin and stuff. Bullshit ideas.

skrovvidi
07-15-2015, 04:06 PM
Could someone provide a clear picture?
What are the next steps?
Does Obama plan to get this through Congress vs EO?

hil3182
07-15-2015, 04:08 PM
I like Mr. Bush, one shot in 2007 clear everything, not like Obama. What the hack modernization of visa bulletin and stuff. Bullshit ideas.

He has to go through the process it or he will be sued. Bush didn't have that constraint when he made everyone current.

This is a much tougher environment.

anshu
07-15-2015, 04:12 PM
Could someone provide a clear picture?
What are the next steps?
Does Obama plan to get this through Congress vs EO?

Even WH don't know next plan so other people how can explain you?

whiteStallion
07-15-2015, 04:13 PM
It isn't as bad as it looks.

The report needs to be read in conjunction with the information the WH shared with us earlier (and we shared with you on 05/06 on FB).

Can you please interpret the Report into previously widely publicized items on this board like allowing I140-EAD, Visa Bulletin being adjusted for filing AOS for vast majority of folks etc ? The report verbiage is vague and leaves a lot to interpretation of what are the actionable results of the initiatives mentioned.

neodyn55
07-15-2015, 04:15 PM
Actually, I'm really bothered that there's nothing in this report that hints about job mobility and improved handling of job changes, nothing that ties back to the proposed rule making by DSH (EAD + AP after I-140).

I would think that's a serious omission. Can someone from IV explain? If this is the be-all and end-all of reports, why is this not put down plainly? They've specifically called out H4 work authorization.

Does the omission tie into potential inaction on the proposed rule making for I-140 EAD/AP?

ynrao24
07-15-2015, 04:16 PM
Nothing new..

Still didn't understand why IV asked to have documents ready

dipdowndust
07-15-2015, 04:20 PM
This update is like your manager writing a nice review for you and what future plans he has for you .... BUT BUT.. at the end he says SORRY this time no raise for you... but Hey keep up the good work... we really appreciate it !!!

People who are stuck in backlog their prime time is already ruined and no government or anybody is going to do anything for them...!! Like it or not but thats the truth... All changes which happens may help future generation.

Its impressive that EAD for H4 is done and I think that enough change for this decade :)

Sorry guys for being negative .... but its been over 10 yrs and counting.

gcboy12h
07-15-2015, 04:25 PM
Lol we waited for this garbage for this long?

anshu
07-15-2015, 04:26 PM
He has to go through the process it or he will be sued. Bush didn't have that constraint when he made everyone current.

This is a much tougher environment.

Even Obama administration go though process maximum they provide EAD+AP like Buch, not more that because Obama, Manmohan bhai bhai no power:eek:

DMX17
07-15-2015, 04:27 PM
Although most points were already shared by IV, it's good that it's on official paper. Cheers!

Can Hil/Rupen/Adminstrator2/Sengs provide some further insight?

1) Is below excerpt the reason we still expect visa bulletin dates to move forward? If so, looks like there will be forward movement but how much? 1 year?

"Recommendation 1: Update the monthly Visa Bulletin. Later this year, State, in consultation with DHS, will revise the monthly Visa Bulletin to better estimate immigrant visa availability for prospective applicants, providing needed predictability to nonimmigrant workers seeking permanent residency. The revisions will help ensure that the maximum number of available visas is issued every year, while also minimizing the potential for visa retrogression.26 These changes will further allow more individuals seeking LPR status to work, change jobs, and accept promotions. By increasing efficiency in visa issuance, individuals and their families who are already on the path to becoming LPRs will have increased security that they can stay in the United States, set down roots, and more confidently seek out opportunities to build lives in our country.
Recommendation 2: Refine monthly allocation of visas. State will increase monthly visa allocation totals during the first three quarters of the fiscal year to the degree permitted by law in order to ensure that fewer numbers are left for the final quarter, thereby ensuring that visa numbers issued are as closely aligned with statutory mandates as possible."

2) It also appears that the employee will be free after 1 year of I-140 approval, which contradicts with what we asked for (no wait time). Please confirm.

IS there a way the community/we can help speed up the rule making?

ankur_shah2982
07-15-2015, 04:32 PM
I think there will be early AOS but no recapture.

Now the question is by how much?I think looks like max 6 months to 1 year.

hil3182
07-15-2015, 04:32 PM
1) Is below excerpt the reason we still expect visa bulletin dates to move forward? If so, looks like there will be forward movement but how much? 1 year?
Substantially more than a year and if you look at the language - it won't retrogress.

2) It also appears that the employee will be free after 1 year of I-140 approval, which contradicts with what we asked for (no wait time). Please confirm.
Another good observation. For this and the lack of early AoS please feel free to go after the Idiots on other fora who:

Tweeted for I140EAD when we explicitly empathized AoS.
Sent in letters suggesting that a 1 year wait was appropriate.


IS there a way the community/we can help speed up the rule making?If there is we will come up with an action item. In the absence of an action item, please sit tight. Anything that you might do will most like hurt more than help us.

hil3182
07-15-2015, 04:35 PM
Substantially more than a year and if you look at the language - it won't retrogress.


Another good observation. For this and the lack of early AoS please feel free to go after the Idiots on other fora who:

Tweeted for I140EAD when we explicitly empathized AoS.
Sent in letters suggesting that a 1 year wait was appropriate.


If there is we will come up with an action item. In the absence of an action item, please sit tight. Anything that you might do will most like hurt more than help us.

To clarify, we haven't given up on early AoS. The WH continues to talk to us and this matter will continue to be pursued.

Just because it isn't explicitly mentioned in the report, doesn't mean it isn't happening - this could just be a lawsuit reduction strategy.

hil3182
07-15-2015, 04:43 PM
There is understandably a lot of confusion (and disappointment) about the Report from the WH.

Please post your questions below and we will try to answer them over the next few days. Try to keep your questions brief, to the point and please check to see if someone has asked the question before you.

Thank you.

ynrao24
07-15-2015, 04:44 PM
There is understandably a lot of confusion (and disappointment) about the Report from the WH.

Please post your questions below and we will try to answer them over the next few days. Try to keep your questions brief, to the point and please check to see if someone has asked the question before you.

Thank you.


Still didn't understand why IV asked to have documents ready

Suva
07-15-2015, 04:46 PM
There is understandably a lot of confusion (and disappointment) about the Report from the WH.

Please post your questions below and we will try to answer them over the next few days. Try to keep your questions brief, to the point and please check to see if someone has asked the question before you.

Thank you.

What does this mean "Substantially more than a year movement in visa bulletin"?

gten
07-15-2015, 04:47 PM
This update is like your manager writing a nice review for you and what future plans he has for you .... BUT BUT.. at the end he says SORRY this time no raise for you... but Hey keep up the good work... we really appreciate it !!!

People who are stuck in backlog their prime time is already ruined and no government or anybody is going to do anything for them...!! Like it or not but thats the truth... All changes which happens may help future generation.

Its impressive that EAD for H4 is done and I think that enough change for this decade :)

Sorry guys for being negative .... but its been over 10 yrs and counting.

10 years.. It's not fair..Hang in there! almost there.

hopein2015
07-15-2015, 04:49 PM
IV asked us to have "Papers Ready". If this is just a report I don't understand why you asked us to have papers ready.

gten
07-15-2015, 04:49 PM
even obama administration go though process maximum they provide ead+ap like buch, not more that because obama, manmohan bhai bhai no power:eek:

y u no grammar?

amulchandra
07-15-2015, 04:49 PM
Still didn't understand why IV asked to have documents ready

I am wondering the same thing.

bnaik
07-15-2015, 04:51 PM
• Further increase job flexibility by enabling individuals whose employment-sponsored
immigrant visa petitions have been approved for more than one year

Would this mean an approved I-140 with your current employer OR any prior approved I-140 with previous employers?

sengs
07-15-2015, 04:55 PM
We are analyzing the report now to get clear picture. We have similar questions as all of you have. WH is still talking to us regarding the final implementation of this report. So I guess this is a framework based on which they will implement. As hil3182 said, please let us know your questions - and we will try to answer them as much as we can.

1) Please try to be as precise as possible.
2) Please check if anyone else has asked the same question before.
3) Please restrain yourself from taking any action items as some of these tweets and emails have hurt a lot of our (that includes all of you) efforts. This is my personal request.

Thanks.

dkshitij
07-15-2015, 04:57 PM
Crap just spins spins ...I hope that report was not crap

Chief34
07-15-2015, 04:59 PM
The Get your papers ready message,it's just a heads up from IV. It was delivered with the expectation that if all the fixes that IV is asking for get through, then everyone is in a position to take advantage of the situation and file for AOS. There are no guarantees in life and definitely none in politics. This report is just a first step, and hopefully more positive changes will follow. The EO is one avenue to address our issues. There are other avenues as well, that are being worked on in parallel.
people are getting hung up on the wrong thing. "Why IV told us to get the papers ready..?". What does it hurt to have your documents ready..? I would think, it is better to have them ready beforehand rather than scrambling at the last minute.

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:00 PM
IV asked us to have "Papers Ready". If this is just a report I don't understand why you asked us to have papers ready.

I am wondering the same thing.

Depending on your PD you may be presently surprised. :)

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:04 PM
• Further increase job flexibility by enabling individuals whose employment-sponsored
immigrant visa petitions have been approved for more than one year

Would this mean an approved I-140 with your current employer OR any prior approved I-140 with previous employers?

My interpretation on this is - after 365 days of I-140 approval you are the owner of your I-140. Employer cannot revoke it anymore. If your previous employer has already revoked it, I don't think you'll be able to retrieve it. It will all be active after the rule is implemented.

dkshitij
07-15-2015, 05:06 PM
Depending on your PD you may be presently surprised. :)

Instead of talking in more cryptic tones why not say if YOU will be current by October bulletin?

On one hand the request is for precise questions. Where are the precise answers?

DMX17
07-15-2015, 05:06 PM
Couple more question:
1) What is the best estimate for completing the rule making process to provide portable work authorization (EAD + AP) to approved I-140 beneficiaries per RIN: 1615-AC05? The NPRM is targeted in October 2015.
2) What does this mean?:
“Recommendation 4: Clarify and expand protections for employment-based immigrants and nonimmigrants.

Provide increased guidance on job flexibility provisions for H-1B workers seeking other H-1B employment, including changing jobs or employers; “

nohohon
07-15-2015, 05:10 PM
My interpretation on this is - after 365 days of I-140 approval you are the owner of your I-140. Employer cannot revoke it anymore. If your previous employer has already revoked it, I don't think you'll be able to retrieve it. It will all be active after the rule is implemented.

I think what most people would love to understand is whether this provision is retroactive. That is, when this rule goes into effect, can one make use of an ex-employers I-140 if it's not already been withdrawn (assuming it's been more than a year since that I-140 was approved)?

Shrekpal
07-15-2015, 05:11 PM
From the document, The only possible fix seems to be employee owning I140 after 1 year. Apart from this most of the other seems to be guidance to different problems. Is my understanding correct?

Specifically,
1. Early AOS seems to be a distant dream
2. I140 EAD/AP seems to be not touched at all. So looks like no plans for that as well.

Is this the reason for IV pushing for HR 213?

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:11 PM
Couple more question:
1) What is the best estimate for completing the rule making process to provide portable work authorization (EAD + AP) to approved I-140 beneficiaries per RIN: 1615-AC05? The NPRM is targeted in October 2015.
2) What does this mean?:
“Recommendation 4: Clarify and expand protections for employment-based immigrants and nonimmigrants.

Provide increased guidance on job flexibility provisions for H-1B workers seeking other H-1B employment, including changing jobs or employers; “

1) It will go through regular rule-making process. You don't want a valuable rule to be sued and stopped, right?
2) I believe this is same or similar jobs guidelines.

thokkalohdi
07-15-2015, 05:12 PM
So, is IV said that "Report is locked, will not be watered down" and mentioned about i140 and ead etc etc.. but in this report there is no mention of i140 and EAD...

so was the report "watered down"? did they cite "technical glitch" and changed the original report?

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:13 PM
I think what most people would love to understand is whether this provision is retroactive. That is, when this rule goes into effect, can one make use of an ex-employers I-140 if it's not already been withdrawn (assuming it's been more than a year since that I-140 was approved)?

No rule is retroactive until explicitly mentioned. I don't see that happening here.

DMX17
07-15-2015, 05:14 PM
So, is IV said that "Report is locked, will not be watered down" and mentioned about i140 and ead etc etc.. but in this report there is no mention of i140 and EAD...

so was the report "watered down"? did they cite "technical glitch" and changed the original report?

Yes but it is "kinda" there.

It is definitely here:
http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201504&RIN=1615-AC05

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:15 PM
So, is IV said that "Report is locked, will not be watered down" and mentioned about i140 and ead etc etc.. but in this report there is no mention of i140 and EAD...

so was the report "watered down"? did they cite "technical glitch" and changed the original report?

Technical part is the other part of the report that has been published separately….
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/07/15/bringing-our-immigration-system-digital-age

This and the report implementation are inter-dependent.

bracelet80
07-15-2015, 05:16 PM
I think what most people would love to understand is whether this provision is retroactive. That is, when this rule goes into effect, can one make use of an ex-employers I-140 if it's not already been withdrawn (assuming it's been more than a year since that I-140 was approved)?

From the report, it says we can use I 140 for EAD, even if employer withdraw or he goes out of business. If this case is included, then I am pretty sure we can use previous employer's I 140. This report is not fully detailed, we will have to wait for full language.

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:17 PM
This website is not allowing me to post answers in quick successions. So I will take a break while you guys keep sending us your questions. Someone will definitely get back to you.

DMX17
07-15-2015, 05:18 PM
1) It will go through regular rule-making process. You don't want a valuable rule to be sued and stopped, right?
2) I believe this is same or similar jobs guidelines.

Thanks Sengs.

So 6-7 months after Oct 2015? Just making sure coz the negativity everywhere points to end of 2016 before we will see this rule in effect.

Unless the visa bulletin moves to 2011, I need this rule. ;)

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:19 PM
Thanks Sengs.

So 6-7 months after Oct 2015? Just making sure coz the negativity everywhere points to end of 2016 before we will see this rule in effect.

Unless the visa bulletin moves to 2011, I need this rule. ;)

You and I are in the same boat buddy. :):)

neodyn55
07-15-2015, 05:20 PM
Repeating my question from before (#35)

Actually, I'm really bothered that there's nothing in this report that hints about job mobility and improved handling of job changes, nothing that ties back to the proposed rule making by DSH (EAD + AP after I-140).

I would think that's a serious omission. Can someone from IV explain? If this is the be-all and end-all of reports, why is this not put down plainly? They've specifically called out H4 work authorization.

Does the omission tie into potential inaction on the proposed rule making for I-140 EAD/AP?

haranrk
07-15-2015, 05:21 PM
What does owning your I-140 mean?

Say if I change jobs after getting I-140 approved from old employer, I still need to restart the process from PERM, I-140 with the new employer before I can file I-485 (if my PD is current) ?

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:22 PM
Repeating my question from before (#35)

Actually, I'm really bothered that there's nothing in this report that hints about job mobility and improved handling of job changes, nothing that ties back to the proposed rule making by DSH (EAD + AP after I-140).

I would think that's a serious omission. Can someone from IV explain? If this is the be-all and end-all of reports, why is this not put down plainly? They've specifically called out H4 work authorization.

Does the omission tie into potential inaction on the proposed rule making for I-140 EAD/AP?

EAD/AP for I-140 is already in the rule making process. Don't worry. It will be there when it is ready. It will take the full rule making process as I have mentioned earlier.

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:24 PM
What does owning your I-140 mean?

Say if I change jobs after getting I-140 approved from old employer, I still need to restart the process from PERM, I-140 with the new employer before I can file I-485 (if my PD is current) ?

Once this rule is implemented, you don't have to do any of the above if it is more than 1 year since your I-140 was approved.

sengs
07-15-2015, 05:26 PM
Dang. No. This website is seriously stopping me from posting answers. :eek: :eek:

rohit.rohitnar
07-15-2015, 05:32 PM
We are analyzing the report now to get clear picture. We have similar questions as all of you have. WH is still talking to us regarding the final implementation of this report. So I guess this is a framework based on which they will implement. As hil3182 said, please let us know your questions - and we will try to answer them as much as we can.

1) Please try to be as precise as possible.
2) Please check if anyone else has asked the same question before.
3) Please restrain yourself from taking any action items as some of these tweets and emails have hurt a lot of our (that includes all of you) efforts. This is my personal request.

Thanks.

IV seems to be the only organization that has any clue to what's going on and they certainly are the only ones who want to help us legal immigrants. I appreciate and thank IV's efforts.

I have read this report and I think it is fair to summarize as not being very specific. Some of the proposals do not have any dates or details attached to them.

What changes can we expect for those with an approved I140, who have been with their employer for more than a year and whose PD is 2013 - which only means it is going to be years before the their PD becomes current? What's in this report that can help such legal immigrants who are waiting in line and are caught in the backlogs? How soon can we expect the changes or proposed relief?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

haranrk
07-15-2015, 06:18 PM
Once this rule is implemented, you don't have to do any of the above if it is more than 1 year since your I-140 was approved.

Thanks for the clarification sengs.

So since you mentioned that this won't be retroactive (unless otherwise stated), and this rule making will take few months, I guess this won't provide any relief for folks who currently have I-140 approved from previous employers?

This is a great change but just want to understand what will be implications for folks who have I-140 approved from previous employers and whether we should start the process with current employer asap instead of waiting for this rule change.

DMX17
07-15-2015, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the clarification sengs.

So since you mentioned that this won't be retroactive (unless otherwise stated), and this rule making will take few months, I guess this won't provide any relief for folks who currently have I-140 approved from previous employers?

This is a great change but just want to understand what will be implications for folks who have I-140 approved from previous employers and whether we should start the process with current employer asap instead of waiting for this rule change.

I would start the GC process if the employer is willing, as at this point we do not much detail on your (and mine) specific case. Just for fun, it's always better to have more than one I-140 handy!;) I have two now.

Ramalingam
07-15-2015, 07:45 PM
Thanks for the clarification sengs.

So since you mentioned that this won't be retroactive (unless otherwise stated), and this rule making will take few months, I guess this won't provide any relief for folks who currently have I-140 approved from previous employers?

This is a great change but just want to understand what will be implications for folks who have I-140 approved from previous employers and whether we should start the process with current employer asap instead of waiting for this rule change.

What happened to VB movement. Is that still in cards. At least the report does not have any details about that

penguin80
07-15-2015, 09:47 PM
It seems the purpose of today's report publication was more for rationalization of executive action. It doesn't do anything more than to provide justification for rules changes and relief being proposed by the administration. The target audience are the skeptics who are against any immigration changes.
I am guessing major movements towards actual implementation would be around the elections next year. Same goes for HR 213 which is waiting for the 2016 elections so the parties can influence voters.
But on the positive side, this is good for building momentum and there is nothing negative to suggest administration is going back on anything promised.

shyamps
07-15-2015, 10:17 PM
It seems the purpose of today's report publication was more for rationalization of executive action. It doesn't do anything more than to provide justification for rules changes and relief being proposed by the administration. The target audience are the skeptics who are against any immigration changes.
I am guessing major movements towards actual implementation would be around the elections next year. Same goes for HR 213 which is waiting for the 2016 elections so the parties can influence voters.
But on the positive side, this is good for building momentum and there is nothing negative to suggest administration is going back on anything promised.

Policy process in Federal government is complex. I don't think high skilled immigrant community clearly understands how this works. This report is a step in the process for White House to send further instructions to the DHS and USCIS agencies to start implementing the recommendations that they have received. Unless these steps are followed, contentious parties can file law suits to prevent progress on the policy that we so dearly want for ourselves. I hope people who are seeing this in the negative realize the importance of this report and the complex nature of the process.

neodyn55
07-16-2015, 12:45 AM
Another point to clarify is what it really means about I-140 retainability after 1 year after approval. The report mentions employer revocation or employer going out of business as items that will not interrupt LPR process. What does this mean? Currently, priority date porting ensures that someone doesn't lose their place on the queue anyway, even if these things happen. Secondly, there is no mention of job mobility in that statement, so does that apply?

Lastly and more worrisome: Right now, a worker's priority date is his/her to keep the minute after I-140 approval. Is the intent of the point in the report that it will now only be available 1 year after I-140 approval? if so this is a giant step backward.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 02:23 AM
The report looks like a joke! No EAD for approved 140, no recapture..?

Recapture?? Did anyone ever said that there will be recapture in this report?

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 02:28 AM
Although most points were already shared by IV, it's good that it's on official paper. Cheers!
.................

2) It also appears that the employee will be free after 1 year of I-140 approval, which contradicts with what we asked for (no wait time). Please confirm.

IS there a way the community/we can help speed up the rule making?

Yes, we asked for it. But some idiots kept on "tweeting" that they wanted to wait 1 year "ONLY". We kept on asking not to tweet the wrong message, but some people just don't learn, don't they?

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 02:34 AM
IV asked us to have "Papers Ready". If this is just a report I don't understand why you asked us to have papers ready.

We have said this before, but some folks keep asking the same question again.

The original plan was to make VB current for the month of July. That is why we provides heads up to folks to get papers ready.

Subsequently, because of the EAD for H4 lawsuit, Administration was concerned about a possible lawsuit for making Vb current. dropped the plan for making VB current. So there was change of plan.

In retrospect we did the right thing for sharing what was going on then. If you got papers ready, that will not hurt anyone, you will need them at some point. Many folks will soon be able to use the documents in October.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 02:46 AM
Why this report doesn't contain EAD for I-140?
This report is about new fixes. The goal is to make public the new fixes that the Administration plans to implement. Again, these are "NEW" fixes, in addition to the existing fixes were announced earlier, including EAD for I-140.

Why this report is important?

Every one is so focused on EAD for I-140. But what good is EAD for I140 if you cannot change employers or jobs. Or if your employer revokes your I140, invalidating your I140, and thus EAD. What is the point of having an EAD, but having to start your green card process all over again if you change your employer or jobs. And what jobs can one change into using EAD for I140.

This report is an announcement for the fixes that will provide all these answers.

1.) Your employer will be unable to revoke your approved I140 after 1 year.
2.) You can change employer using EAD without having to start your green card process all over again.
3.) Using EAD for I140, you will now be able to change jobs as defined by Same or Similar

In essence, the fixes announced in this report are nuanced, but they will allow you to live with freedoms while on EAD, these freedoms you will otherwise get after getting green card.

Without these fixes, you are throw your EAD for I140 in the dustbin. That is the relevance of this report. Most people waiting in green cards is unable to complete understand the relevance of this report yet. But in time they will understand the relevance. That is why these are very very important fixes. EVERYONE in backlogs will be affected by this report.

Because of Visa Modernization, VB dates are expected to move significantly. That will allow a lot more folks to file for AOS. So if you have prepared your documents, then that is good because a lot of folks are expected to be able to to use them starting October.

Hope this clarifies the significance.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 02:50 AM
It seems the purpose of today's report publication was more for rationalization of executive action. It doesn't do anything more than to provide justification for rules changes and relief being proposed by the administration. The target audience are the skeptics who are against any immigration changes.
I am guessing major movements towards actual implementation would be around the elections next year. Same goes for HR 213 which is waiting for the 2016 elections so the parties can influence voters.
But on the positive side, this is good for building momentum and there is nothing negative to suggest administration is going back on anything promised.

Lets put things in perspective and weigh things accordingly. This has nothing to do with the election or election outcome. We don't expect anyone to will win or lose elections because pending green card petition applicants will be able to change jobs, or, because H.R.213 will pass. So this has nothing to do with election. Amplifying or over-blowing this is not helpful. But it is also important to see things in the right prespective because this report makes nuanced but significant changes to the system on the group allowing job mobility to people.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 02:52 AM
Lastly and more worrisome: Right now, a worker's priority date is his/her to keep the minute after I-140 approval. Is the intent of the point in the report that it will now only be available 1 year after I-140 approval?

No, it means that after 1 year, you will not have to restart your green card process even if you change employer. You will be able to change employer and still continue with the same green card petition. And yes, you will still retain your priority date.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 02:59 AM
Repeating my question from before (#35)

Actually, I'm really bothered that there's nothing in this report that hints about job mobility and improved handling of job changes, nothing that ties back to the proposed rule making by DSH (EAD + AP after I-140).
...............................


To the contrary, all the fixes in the report are designed to create an environment of job mobility for applicants with approved I-140. All these fixes are necessary in order to allow job mobility using EAD after I140.

The purpose of all these changes is to provide job mobility to applicants with approved I-140. You can even work for the current employer on EAD immediately after the approval of I-140. Infact, you will be able to change jobs using EAD from I-140, but your employer will have the ability to revoke your I-140 until 1 year. This means. if you have an understanding with the petitioning employer that they will not withdraw your I-140, then, after the implementation of these fixes, you will be able to change employer or jobs immediately after I-140 approval on EAD.

neodyn55
07-16-2015, 03:25 AM
That answered all my questions/concerns.
Thank you admin :)

I think a lot of people are negative on this report (and initially I was too) but I think the negativity stems from the "I want it now!!!" section of the brain. Looking at it from a larger perspective, in the next 2 years we pretty much have a LOT of things solved that will make waiting in line a lot easier. Except for the actual green card of course .

I suppose the focus now is making sure these recommendations are implemented.

pappu
07-16-2015, 08:39 AM
Check the first page of this thread to get more clarifications . Also, visit Immigration voice facebook page for regular updates

nid15
07-16-2015, 09:01 AM
All the people who are crying and cribbing about IV/Report are what we call "paapad tod pehelvaan" in hindi. Literally translated "Wrestler who can only break papadum" These folks only have guts to pick up a fight online where they know there are no real consequences. That too with someone like IV who is trying to help. If you are so gutsy, why don't you walk up to the whitehouse and setup a tent like the anti-war lady who has been there for decades or at-least walk up to your senators office and "demand" your so called rights!!! Besides IV, do you have any other option . These are the kind of people who sit with a begging bowl and a large dose of self pity waiting for someone to throw a crumb on their plate.

If you are lucky to have your birth certificate in order, good for you. Ask people who had to go through RFE's because of the birth certificate. It can easily take 6 months or more and possibly a trip to India to get these in order. So yes, I am glad IV gave a heads up for the documents.

bnaik
07-16-2015, 09:41 AM
Question to Admin about the proposed job portability rule:

On the day the rule is passed, say the current employer is in the middle of processing your green card or has not started the process yet....but luckily you have an approved I-140 from your previous employer (approved for more than 1 year & has not been revoked & is still perfectly valid). Would you be able to use the previous I-140 for job mobility?

hil3182
07-16-2015, 09:49 AM
Most people don't realize why this report is a big deal, but when you think about it, it is obvious.

The President of the the United States has acknowledged our problems and has publicly ordered DHS, DoS and DoL - three huge federal bureaucracies to deal with our concerns.

This is also a big deal to us as an organization. We have been pushing for these fixes for years. To people stuck in backlog, the problems are obvious and the fixes easy - but let me assure you that there is no shortage of obvious problems in this country with easy fixes - that will never ever get fixed. Getting anything done in Government is hard. Very very hard. And we had exactly zero "allies" in this battle.

That is why to see a document from no less than the President of the United States ordering several large agencies to get their act together and fix our problems to the maximal extent allowed within the law - is a big deal to us. If you are suffering under the backlog - it should be a big deal to you too.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 09:53 AM
Question to Admin about the proposed job portability rule:

On the day the rule is passed, say the current employer is in the middle of processing your green card or has not started the process yet....but luckily you have an approved I-140 from your previous employer (approved for more than 1 year & has not been revoked & is still perfectly valid). Would you be able to use the previous I-140 for job mobility?

We did raise this issue, but last I heard they told us that it "was so far out in the weeds" that we would have to wait for the final rule.

shining
07-16-2015, 09:55 AM
In this new report, can someone clarify on the travel part, does this simplify travel in any way--Like currently you have to wait for secondary inspection on advance parole and cannot get tsa cleared if you do not have a gc. Does it all get easier?
Cheers
Shining

unbeatensujoy
07-16-2015, 10:14 AM
Do these fixes needs to go through Rule making Process or publishing a Memo will work?

what is the timeline for these fixes? (assuming these are different from the I140EAD-AP Fix)

xs2sharad
07-16-2015, 10:14 AM
It was a bit confusing and I believe I had some confusion but at the same time trust in this forum. Here is to the great work with IV.. Contributing and putting our effort together can solve the issues. Hope for HR 213!!!!!!!!

:):)
You just completed your payment.

Your transaction ID for this payment is: 8397316622777503T.

unbeatensujoy
07-16-2015, 10:16 AM
Also what is tweak in calculation which will make the visa bulletin movement significant?

bnaik
07-16-2015, 10:38 AM
Question to admin:

The report talks about 2 things towards visa modernization efforts i.e "Updating the monthly visa bulletin" & "Refining monthly allocation of visas" in addition to the technology improvements that is supposed to improve efficiency.

But this does not change the current cap numbers, they need to still work within those numbers. What kind of improvements within the agencies would suddenly make it possible to significantly start moving visa dates from October and avoid retrogression?

Would this just be a supply/demand strategy change of moving the dates early during the first three quarters of year and keeping them steady later or is there going to be an influx of new visas numbers from somewhere?

Unless there is a wastage of significant visas today, what kind of improvements would suddenly allow more number of people file for green cards?

IV your insights into this would be highly appreciated.

pappu
07-16-2015, 10:45 AM
Also what is tweak in calculation which will make the visa bulletin movement significant?

:) There is so much 'bad' influence of the data by all these prediction websites. As we have said in the past stop wasting time on them because they will never be accurate predictions because of the nature of this animal. It is just a way for some websites to get more traffic and business. Focus on policy changes instead.

DMX17
07-16-2015, 10:56 AM
I think this is one of the most important scenarios related to the I-140 EAD/AP rule.

Scenario:
- Employer A I-140 is approved let’s say in May 2015
- I resign now and join Employer B but the Employer A agrees to not revoke/cancel the I-140
- I-140 EAD/AP Rule is implemented let’s say in June 2016

Can I tell employer B that all they need to do now is an H1 transfer “just this one-time” and they do not have to start the GC process again since in June 2016 I own an approved I-140 albeit from my previous employer A?

If we can get some inside info on this scenario, this could potentially free up a lot of people now. I know it’s almost impossible to get this “assurance” however.

tginnj
07-16-2015, 11:02 AM
there was some language in the report on a certain grace period after job loss on H1 ...any pointers on what and how long that period could be?

skrovvidi
07-16-2015, 11:10 AM
My I-140 is in process with current employer and my PD is November 2014. The clause "more than an year with I-140" wouldn't work for me if I want to change employer
Is there a way to remove this condition in the Final rule?

DMX17
07-16-2015, 11:15 AM
My I-140 is in process with current employer and my PD is November 2014. The clause "more than an year with I-140" wouldn't work for me if I want to change employer
Is there a way to remove this condition in the Final rule?

Thanks to all the tweets, we got screwd!

I think it is in your interest to premium process the I-140. Keep in mind the rule is expected in March-April 2016 at best and at that time you will almost be ready!

skrovvidi
07-16-2015, 11:21 AM
Hello DMX17,
The 1 year clause is disappointing. I have filed I-140 in Premium to coincide with my H1 extension. My intension is to get 3 year extension with an approved I-140.

sundarpn
07-16-2015, 11:34 AM
.
Question: Any update on "Pre-register" after 1-140 ? Is that completely DEAD?
IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: Please STOP calling it preregister and EAD For I140. You and others dont know, but using these terms abd repeatedly asking the same question over and over again has severely affect your chance of filing AOS
These are new fixes, in addition to EAD for I140. EAD for I140 is no good without these fixes.
===

Admin,
Can we expect anything around filing for I-485 when priority dates are not current? Or was that a gross misunderstanding? In the recent past, this was being referred to with terms like a "per-register" and "early AOS" etc.

(This would help folks who filed their I-485 back in Sept 2007 and then got married. Consequently haven't been able to file dependent I-485 since dates never got current for EB3-I)

ynrao24
07-16-2015, 11:42 AM
This report is crap, no timelines no clear details. Just they want play with people emotions and they succeeded...

moon_walker333
07-16-2015, 11:43 AM
Admins,

When we were advocating for EAD for I140, I remember that we were also pushing for Advance Parole (AP) along with that. So that we can travel to India/Home country without having to go for Visa stamping and then run into delays or rejection. Is Advance Parole for people with approved I140 (even if minimum 1 year) still in cards? Is there going to be any relief on travelling?

Thanks.

ankur_shah2982
07-16-2015, 11:44 AM
IV, we understand due to concerns of lawsuit Administration did not pursue early EOS as they did on July 2007.But let us know if we can do anything to make that possible.

ynrao24
07-16-2015, 11:44 AM
We have said this before, but some folks keep asking the same question again.

The original plan was to make VB current for the month of July. That is why we provides heads up to folks to get papers ready.

Subsequently, because of the EAD for H4 lawsuit, Administration was concerned about a possible lawsuit for making Vb current. dropped the plan for making VB current. So there was change of plan.

In retrospect we did the right thing for sharing what was going on then. If you got papers ready, that will not hurt anyone, you will need them at some point. Many folks will soon be able to use the documents in October.


lol...

#EpicFailureonMay05
#RelievetheEpicFailureonJuly15

hil3182
07-16-2015, 11:53 AM
I think this is one of the most important scenarios related to the I-140 EAD/AP rule.

Scenario:
- Employer A I-140 is approved let’s say in May 2015
- I resign now and join Employer B but the Employer A agrees to not revoke/cancel the I-140
- I-140 EAD/AP Rule is implemented let’s say in June 2016

Can I tell employer B that all they need to do now is an H1 transfer “just this one-time” and they do not have to start the GC process again since in June 2016 I own an approved I-140 albeit from my previous employer A?

If we can get some inside info on this scenario, this could potentially free up a lot of people now. I know it’s almost impossible to get this “assurance” however.

Making any kind of assumptions about anything about anything other than "vanilla" I-140EAD+AP is dangerous.

When we have more info about the edge cases, we will release it (there is no real reason to keep it confidential), but make assumptions about it at your own peril.

waitingnwaiting
07-16-2015, 12:00 PM
This report is crap,

Please tell that to your employer and ask them to stand up for your (employee) interests and genuinely advocate for it with your local lawmakers.

Likewise ask your lawyer to help your interests.

no timelines no clear details.
Tell the white house to employ you. You are the best project manager they can have


Just they want play with people emotions and they succeeded...

Oh poor baby. You are so emotional and weak.

This report is crap, no timelines no clear details. Just they want play with people emotions and they succeeded...

So I guess you are planning on quitting and leaving the country? You seem so disgusted with the whole immigration system? I really hope they implement the top class quality government system of your country here.

Dude/ Dudette this is a joke post so do not take it personally. Enjoy your day and do not feel down.

pari1234
07-16-2015, 12:02 PM
Admins,

When we were advocating for EAD for I140, I remember that we were also pushing for Advance Parole (AP) along with that. So that we can travel to India/Home country without having to go for Visa stamping and then run into delays or rejection. Is Advance Parole for people with approved I140 (even if minimum 1 year) still in cards? Is there going to be any relief on travelling?

Thanks.

I have the same question to administrators... It is very important to have AP along with EAD for approved I-140..

dhakaldoo
07-16-2015, 12:04 PM
lol...

#EpicFailureonMay05
#RelievetheEpicFailureonJuly15



So are you a lawyer who is being happy that IV "failed" ? Or a company owner who is happy that people aren't being able to change jobs..

Because if you were a common man stuck in backlog, you would help IV and not "LOL" on their "failure"

But I suspect you would rather want to get stuck and rot in this backlog than coming forward and helping.


Get real!

waitingnwaiting
07-16-2015, 12:06 PM
IV, we understand due to concerns of lawsuit Administration did not pursue early EOS as they did on July 2007.But let us know if we can do anything to make that possible.

I think there are some hidden signals that IV is not telling everyone. The plan is to advance dates a lot by October. To Help EB3 India, they are making EB3 ROW current due to low demand, and give all spillover visas to India EB3. This is a gamechanger for EB3 India because this is as per law and does not invite any lawsuit. It is better than a spillover rule change. I think this is why we should not do prediction anymore because the laws of physics are thrown out of the door now.

waitingnwaiting
07-16-2015, 12:08 PM
So are you a lawyer who is being happy that IV "failed" ? Or a company owner who is happy that people aren't being able to change jobs..

Because if you were a common man stuck in backlog, you would help IV and not "LOL" on their "failure"

But I suspect you would rather want to get stuck and rot in this backlog than coming forward and helping.


Get real!

Or he already has a greencard and does not want anyone after him get a greencard. He fears competition for himself and his children if more immigrants come.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 12:14 PM
I have the same question to administrators... It is very important to have AP along with EAD for approved I-140..

AP is there for sure.

The thing that's missing is Early AoS - which is the mother of all fixes- but thanks to some retards on twitter got screwed up.

pari1234
07-16-2015, 12:22 PM
Yes, we asked for it. But some idiots kept on "tweeting" that they wanted to wait 1 year "ONLY". We kept on asking not to tweet the wrong message, but some people just don't learn, don't they?

Folks... before you take any action or demand for something, Please check twice what you are asking for.... Please help IV correctly to help us.

pari1234
07-16-2015, 12:25 PM
We have said this before, but some folks keep asking the same question again.

The original plan was to make VB current for the month of July. That is why we provides heads up to folks to get papers ready.

Subsequently, because of the EAD for H4 lawsuit, Administration was concerned about a possible lawsuit for making Vb current. dropped the plan for making VB current. So there was change of plan.

In retrospect we did the right thing for sharing what was going on then. If you got papers ready, that will not hurt anyone, you will need them at some point. Many folks will soon be able to use the documents in October.

Understandable!!

hil3182
07-16-2015, 12:27 PM
AP is there for sure.

The thing that's missing is Early AoS - which is the mother of all fixes- but thanks to some retards on twitter got screwed up.

It got screwed up really badly. We have friends in agency X saying - it doesn't sound like you guys want early AoS because the message my counterpart in agency Y is getting is you will be happy with EAD's.

And we repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly told people, don't tweet, don't sign petitions - they are less than useless - they harm us more than hurt and because of this stupidity some kids are going to age out.

These kids will have to get on F-1's to stay in the country (paying out of state tuition) and then get back on H1-B's when they are done - continuing the cycle of H1-B slavery.

But we will continue to fight for them. As one of our leaders said, the fight isn't over until we either give up or we get what we want. We have friends in high places, we speak the truth and fight the good fight - we will eventually win.

InLineForGC
07-16-2015, 12:34 PM
Can someone please clarify if below statements are true or false in current scenario (without EAD/AP rule for approved I140):

a) Employer "A" can file GC for a prospective future employee "E", who currently works for another employer "B" -- TRUE/FALSE
b) Assuming above is true, "A" can get I140 approved even when "E" is still working for "B" (since the GC application is for future employment) -- TRUE/FALSE
c) Assuming both the above are true, "A" has approved I140 for "E", then "E" can get H1 extension beyond 6 years from any employer (since extension beyond 6 years is granted based on the fact that "E" is on path to permanent residency with approved I140, with a valid status in US) -- TRUE/FALSE

hil3182
07-16-2015, 12:45 PM
Can someone please clarify if below statements are true or false in current scenario (without EAD/AP rule for approved I140):

a) Employer "A" can file GC for a prospective future employee "E", who currently works for another employer "B" -- TRUE/FALSE
b) Assuming above is true, "A" can get I140 approved even when "E" is still working for "B" (since the GC application is for future employment) -- TRUE/FALSE
c) Assuming both the above are true, "A" has approved I140 for "E", then "E" can get H1 extension beyond 6 years from any employer (since extension beyond 6 years is granted based on the fact that "E" is on path to permanent residency with approved I140, with a valid status in US) -- TRUE/FALSE

technically true on all counts. but this has nothing to do with the EO.

Bhishma
07-16-2015, 01:08 PM
lol...

#EpicFailureonMay05
#RelievetheEpicFailureonJuly15

Hey, look, a 'Paper Tiger' is roaring

dhruva12
07-16-2015, 01:12 PM
Admin..

Are you still maintaining that there would be a significant/good movement of dates in October arising out of the bookkeeping from the state dept?

InLineForGC
07-16-2015, 01:15 PM
technically true on all counts. but this has nothing to do with the EO.

Thanks hil3182. Does it mean that if I am sure that my approved 140 with employer "A" will NOT be revoked, I can change employers anytime and keep on getting H1 extensions based on approved 140 until date is current? When the date gets current, I can apply for AOS ? Do I need any document from "A" at that time?

Looks like I am missing something, can you please explain if there is any gap in my understanding?

hil3182
07-16-2015, 01:17 PM
Do I need any document from "A" at that time?

employment offer letter.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 02:08 PM
One of the things worth pointing out is the Technology section of the report - if you haven't read it - I strongly suggest you do.

The admin is going to make it such that we will only need lawyers for the most complicated of cases. Filing for an H1, H1 extension, EAD or EAD extension is going to be much simpler than doing your taxes. My guess is most HR departments will start doing their own H1's.

This gives me no small measure of satisfaction after having a ringside view about how those parasitical lawyers have been screwing us everytime we try to do something positive while making a living out of our misery.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 02:10 PM
One of the things worth pointing out is the Technology section of the report - if you haven't read it - I strongly suggest you do.

The admin is going to make it such that we will only need lawyers for the most complicated of cases. Filing for an H1, H1 extension, EAD or EAD extension is going to be much simpler than doing your taxes. My guess is most HR departments will start doing their own H1's.

This gives me no small measure of satisfaction after having a ringside view about how those parasitical lawyers have been screwing us everytime we try to do something positive while making a living out of our misery.

Forgot to mention, that filing for GC's is also going to be radically streamlined.

ynrao24
07-16-2015, 02:12 PM
So I guess you are planning on quitting and leaving the country? You seem so disgusted with the whole immigration system? I really hope they implement the top class quality government system of your country here.

Dude/ Dudette this is a joke post so do not take it personally. Enjoy your day and do not feel down.


its a joke... okk.. GWS

ynrao24
07-16-2015, 02:22 PM
Yes, we asked for it. But some idiots kept on "tweeting" that they wanted to wait 1 year "ONLY". We kept on asking not to tweet the wrong message, but some people just don't learn, don't they?



The irony is that a lot of fun was being poked at people who were tweeting, they were labeled as "keyboard warriors" and were told that tweeting, emailing/faxing/signing petitions were all a waste of time. I agree to the fact that they are mostly useless but then when I-140 approved people get hosed and have to wait out a year, somehow the keyboard warriors get blamed for "changing policies". So, does the administration listen to tweeters and take their tweets seriously that they can affect policies?

ynrao24
07-16-2015, 02:31 PM
So are you a lawyer who is being happy that IV "failed" ? Or a company owner who is happy that people aren't being able to change jobs..

Because if you were a common man stuck in backlog, you would help IV and not "LOL" on their "failure"

But I suspect you would rather want to get stuck and rot in this backlog than coming forward and helping.


Get real!

The funny part is the people who had claimed "technical glitches" being the reason for the delay in release of the report are insisting VB movement as recently as few hours back. On what grounds, only they know and are not willing to share.

"The revisions will help ensure that the maximum number of available visas is issued every year, while also minimizing the potential for visa retrogression."
This only seems to imply that "moving forward" they will "try" to not waste visas. Since there is no mention of going back and recapturing those that are already wasted (possibly no legal standing to do so), there are no grounds to move the VB forward. Anyway Charlie had already mentioned that so they can always fall back saying he is the one who knows everything about that.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 02:31 PM
The irony is that a lot of fun was being poked at people who were tweeting, they were labeled as "keyboard warriors" and were told that tweeting, emailing/faxing/signing petitions were all a waste of time. I agree to the fact that they are mostly useless but then when I-140 approved people get hosed and have to wait out a year, somehow the keyboard warriors get blamed for "changing policies". So, does the administration listen to tweeters and take their tweets seriously that they can affect policies?

That's not how it works.

The hard part is getting the things moving - overcoming the institutional inertia. Once they get moving - they want to get away with doing the least they can - which those twitter idiots conveniently supplied them.

If you think they did started moving on anything high-skilled because of those idiots on twitter or those people sending petitions, you are deluded.

waitingnwaiting
07-16-2015, 02:32 PM
The irony is that a lot of fun was being poked at people who were tweeting, they were labeled as "keyboard warriors" and were told that tweeting, emailing/faxing/signing petitions were all a waste of time. I agree to the fact that they are mostly useless but then when I-140 approved people get hosed and have to wait out a year, somehow the keyboard warriors get blamed for "changing policies". So, does the administration listen to tweeters and take their tweets seriously that they can affect policies?

Did you even care to read the reply from admin?

.
Question: Can we keep focus on our email,fax,twitter message.and keep calling XYZ.
only Aggressive action can achieve our goal.

IMMIGRATION VOICE Answer: NO NO NO. This is called heckling and spamming. This is NOT ADVOCACY. You will hurt yourself by spamming. We have explained so many times on the forums why all this is useless and actually will hurt everyone including yourself. Unless something like this is coordinated for a specific message and from an organization it means nothing. The organization MUST have boots on the ground and regularly meeting lawmakers. This so called emailing/tweeting/calling etc is used sparingly by advocacy organizations when the timing is right, within a short window of time to relay a specific message FROM AN ORGANIZATION that the organization is advocating by investing a lot in lobbying and have lot of credibility in the eyes of lawmakers. Such campaigns are used only to augment a specific action item or to show suport for a particular cause among constituents. They are not meant to irritate recipients. What you are suggesting is a barrage of tweets/emails and faxes that will IRRITATE recipients. Do you really think someone will look into your problem after you irritate them? Grow up and think hard before trying such rogue actions without consulting people who are doing advocacy for almost a decade now.

It would be very naive to think that any rule or law happened by simply sending emails or tweets or even creating a facebook page for any rule or a website like Immigrationvoice.org. It means nothing. The real work is shoe and leather advocacy in DC where we go and meet lawmakers and officials in person again and again, month after months and years after years. It takes many meetings, many action items, a lot of advocacy to move the needle by an inch. It will be false to assume some rule making happened because someone created a facebook page and had a few newspaper articles. We have done so many newspaper articles and TV interviews in the early days of IV, Been there and done that. What matters is actual shoe and leather advocacy and everything else is just noise around the real thing.

Get active on Immigrationvoice.org, attend advocacy days in DC, be a volunteer, meet local lawmakers in person, contribute your time and money to the organization, bring awareness etc etc. You can do a lot by not wasting your time on tweeting/faxing/emailing etc or spending lot of time on forums, trackers and predictions... and doing something that will truly help yourself and others like you.

===

VShallOverCome
07-16-2015, 02:51 PM
It got screwed up really badly. We have friends in agency X saying - it doesn't sound like you guys want early AoS because the message my counterpart in agency Y is getting is you will be happy with EAD's.

And we repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly told people, don't tweet, don't sign petitions - they are less than useless - they harm us more than hurt and because of this stupidity some kids are going to age out.

These kids will have to get on F-1's to stay in the country (paying out of state tuition) and then get back on H1-B's when they are done - continuing the cycle of H1-B slavery.

But we will continue to fight for them. As one of our leaders said, the fight isn't over until we either give up or we get what we want. We have friends in high places, we speak the truth and fight the good fight - we will eventually win.
Hil,
Is there something we can do to have AoS included into the agenda. This is a extremely extremely important step for a person like me who has a child born outisde US.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 02:58 PM
Hil,
Is there something we can do to have AoS included into the agenda. This is a extremely extremely important step for a person like me who has a child born outisde US.

We are doing everything we can - internally we also have many members in your situation. We aren't giving up on this.

If you are looking for something to do, follow the action items in this HR.213 (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096306-do-your-share-important-advocacy-day-action-item.html) thread. You should also join us for our next advocacy day event - should we ever have one.

You might be tempted to tweet or sign petitions, but that will accomplish nothing. In our experience tweets and petitions are only good for giving people (all people) excuses for not doing things. Lazy Govt officials point to tweets & petitions that do not contain what we are asking for to justify their laziness and lazy people tweet and sign petitions to rationalize not doing anything concrete to help themselves.

s416504
07-16-2015, 02:59 PM
Updated Inventory incuding country numbers as on 01/04/2015

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Green%20Card/Green%20Card%20Through%20a%20Job/I-485%20Employment-Based%20Inventory%20Statistics/EB_I-485_Pending_Inventory_as_of_04-01-2015.pdf

VShallOverCome
07-16-2015, 03:04 PM
We are doing everything we can - internally we also have many members in your situation. We aren't giving up on this.

If you are looking for something to do, follow the action items in this HR.213 (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096306-do-your-share-important-advocacy-day-action-item.html) thread. You should also join us for our next advocacy day event - should we ever have one.

You might be tempted to tweet or sign petitions, but that will accomplish nothing. In our experience tweets and petitions are only good for giving people (all people) excuses for not doing things. Lazy Govt officials point to tweets & petitions that do not contain what we are asking for to justify their laziness and lazy people tweet and sign petitions to rationalize not doing anything concrete to help themselves.
Thanks. I am doing my share for H.R. 213 and am encouraging other friends to do that as well. I am not into tweeting at all. I was in DC during thisadvocay but had deliverables so had to come back on Sunday itself. If and whenever it happens next, I will make sure I do not miss it.
Thanks again for all the efforts you all are putting. Cannot thank IV enough for it.

aswami
07-16-2015, 03:07 PM
The irony is that a lot of fun was being poked at people who were tweeting, they were labeled as "keyboard warriors" and were told that tweeting, emailing/faxing/signing petitions were all a waste of time. I agree to the fact that they are mostly useless but then when I-140 approved people get hosed and have to wait out a year, somehow the keyboard warriors get blamed for "changing policies". So, does the administration listen to tweeters and take their tweets seriously that they can affect policies?

Precisely what I was thinking. For years, we have been virulently opposing all forms of social media mobilization because it is "useless". But all of a sudden we hear that social media is so powerful that a short social media campaign has the capacity to influence the results of years of face-to-face advocacy! IMO, instead of being anti-social media, we should use it to complement our face-to-face efforts. Even the newest and smallest non-profits have learnt to do this these days.

Social media and face-to-face are not either-or choices. It's not one or the other. They can both be used to complement each other, and should be used that way! Plus, they can be used to counter other social media campaigns which may harm our efforts. For example, when all those tweeters were playing spoilsport, IV's own social media campaign could have countered them. Instead of learning from this experience, we continue to double down on our anti-social media stance!

sunny0101
07-16-2015, 03:08 PM
I am working as a FTE for one of the largest Healthcare companies. I have 8 years on my H1 with my PD being EB3 2008. I now have an offer from a Fortune 50 company who would do my Greencard in EB2. Is this a right time to change? I almost made up my mind thinking i am going to change then came the announcement yesterday and todays clarification from Admin saying how most of us could be in a position to file for AOS. I really need this advice from you guys. Please help me out. This will help me and my family make a wise decision. Once again i appreciate all your inputs.

dhruva12
07-16-2015, 03:16 PM
Admin..

Are you still maintaining that there would be a significant/good movement of dates in October arising out of the bookkeeping from the state dept?
bump...

aswami
07-16-2015, 03:17 PM
You might be tempted to tweet or sign petitions, but that will accomplish nothing. In our experience tweets and petitions are only good for giving people (all people) excuses for not doing things. Lazy Govt officials point to tweets & petitions that do not contain what we are asking for to justify their laziness and lazy people tweet and sign petitions to rationalize not doing anything concrete to help themselves.

That's not how it works. Even if you stop few IV members from tweeting or signing petitions, you cannot stop the rest of the world from doing so. If IV doesn't get into the tweeting game, what do law makers and their staff see when they check Twitter and other social media? They only see the messages from these other non-IV people. I don't know why IV guys think that lawmakers and their staff don't pay ANY attention to social media (IV's previous stance), or pay selective attention to social media (latest stance). The truth is that they pay attention to the most popular and most repeated messages on social media.

Given this background, if some other group is posting a flurry of non-productive messages on social media, and there is no one to oppose them, those messages appear like the popular trend. Lawmakers and their staff will pay attention to them. The least that IV can do is counter those non-productive messages with truthful and useful messages of our own.

Please don't continue to remain under the illusion that it's an either-or game - that we can either do only face-to-face advocacy or only social media outreach. We can and should do both in a complementary fashion.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 03:24 PM
Precisely what I was thinking. For years, we have been virulently opposing all forms of social media mobilization because it is "useless". But all of a sudden we hear that social media is so powerful that a short social media campaign has the capacity to influence the results of years of face-to-face advocacy! IMO, instead of being anti-social media, we should use it to complement our face-to-face efforts. Even the newest and smallest non-profits have learnt to do this these days.

Social media and face-to-face are not either-or choices. It's not one or the other. They can both be used to complement each other, and should be used that way! Plus, they can be used to counter other social media campaigns which may harm our efforts. For example, when all those tweeters were playing spoilsport, IV's own social media campaign could have countered them. Instead of learning from this experience, we continue to double down on our anti-social media stance!

The main problem we have with Social media is that people shoot off a few tweets, "like" a few FB posts and think they have accomplished something - when infact they haven't.

This is true even if we gave them the correct message to tweet/like/post. That said, there is merit in a Social Media strategy. The problems is for an effective social media strategy you need an obscene number of people to participate (in the 100,000's of thousands) - we can barely get a 100 ppl to DC. The undocumented can do social media because they are in the 10's of millions - we aren't.

That said, we aren't stupid. Once we got word of what was happening, we did what you suggested (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096278-important-message-to-the-twitterati.html). It was just too late to save AoS - for now.

nohohon
07-16-2015, 03:34 PM
That's not how it works.

The hard part is getting the things moving - overcoming the institutional inertia. Once they get moving - they want to get away with doing the least they can - which those twitter idiots conveniently supplied them.


What I am hearing you say is that the administration - or maybe just specific agencies - didn't want to do certain things. The bunch of random people tweeting/emailing are just scapegoats. The powers to be pointed to them and said "they seem to be happy with EAD". If that's the case, they would have found a different excuse to not do something. The "twitterati" just happened to be a convenient excuse.

Obviously, I have no "proof" and don't have the administrations like you, but when I see your comment about "institutional inertia", it just falls under the broad category of people just not wanting/liking change. If they are forced to do something, they'll do the bare minimum and that's just human nature.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 03:43 PM
That's not how it works. Even if you stop few IV members from tweeting or signing petitions, you cannot stop the rest of the world from doing so. If IV doesn't get into the tweeting game, what do law makers and their staff see when they check Twitter and other social media? They only see the messages from these other non-IV people. I don't know why IV guys think that lawmakers and their staff don't pay ANY attention to social media (IV's previous stance), or pay selective attention to social media (latest stance). The truth is that they pay attention to the most popular and most repeated messages on social media.

Given this background, if some other group is posting a flurry of non-productive messages on social media, and there is no one to oppose them, those messages appear like the popular trend. Lawmakers and their staff will pay attention to them. The least that IV can do is counter those non-productive messages with truthful and useful messages of our own.

Please don't continue to remain under the illusion that it's an either-or game - that we can either do only face-to-face advocacy or only social media outreach. We can and should do both in a complementary fashion.

I don't know what else you want us to do? As I mentioned earlier we have twitter (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096278-important-message-to-the-twitterati.html) directions for people who insist on tweeting - despite our advice.

As I alluded to earlier, Social media strategies can work - but doing a half assed social media strategy - with only a few thousand participants will only demonstrate weakness and will cannibalize people from doing productive things that will cause actual change. For eg. people calling their congressman's office for co-sponsoring HR.213 as described in this (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096306-do-your-share-important-advocacy-day-action-item.html) thread - is worth more than 1000's of signatures on some useless petition.

Out of the 100's of 1000's of people stuck in backlogs under 100 people bothered showing up in DC - cannibalization is a serious issue.

The accomplishments of IV (including this EO + getting HR.3012 as far as we did in 2011 + getting 40+ co-sponsors of HR.213 - just the beginning hopefully) is the product of shockingly few volunteers. As an organization we made a decision that we are prepared to pay the cost of a more "noisy" social media operation for more boots on the ground. Boots on the ground is ultimately how things get done.

We have been doing this a long time, this debate happens regularly internally and there is only one obvious conclusion. When we start seeing an abundance of people working on the ground, we might re-evaluate our Social Media strategy. I suspect it will stay the same until then.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 03:51 PM
What I am hearing you say is that the administration - or maybe just specific agencies - didn't want to do certain things. The bunch of random people tweeting/emailing are just scapegoats. The powers to be pointed to them and said "they seem to be happy with EAD". If that's the case, they would have found a different excuse to not do something. The "twitterati" just happened to be a convenient excuse.

No it's not a convenient excuse. The "agency X"/"agency Y" example I gave above actually happened and directly caused that "twitterati" thread - but the damage was done. This was actually the second warning we got from our friend - we were warned about it before, but like you, we didn't think it was possible that some simple tweets would cause this. The second warning was conveyed more seriously and freaked us out.

I had to hold myself back from mentioning the actual agencies because lobbyists would have figured out who exactly we talk to and it would have been problematic.

If they are forced to do something, they'll do the bare minimum and that's just human nature.
Yes. but they need to justify things to their bosses and those tweets were convenient. Who knows - maybe we were never going to get AoS, but we sure as hell shouldn't have given them a reason to back off their commitment.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 03:57 PM
That's not how it works. Even if you stop few IV members from tweeting or signing petitions, you cannot stop the rest of the world from doing so. If IV doesn't get into the tweeting game, what do law makers and their staff see when they check Twitter and other social media? They only see the messages from these other non-IV people. I don't know why IV guys think that lawmakers and their staff don't pay ANY attention to social media (IV's previous stance), or pay selective attention to social media (latest stance). The truth is that they pay attention to the most popular and most repeated messages on social media.

Given this background, if some other group is posting a flurry of non-productive messages on social media, and there is no one to oppose them, those messages appear like the popular trend. Lawmakers and their staff will pay attention to them. The least that IV can do is counter those non-productive messages with truthful and useful messages of our own.

Please don't continue to remain under the illusion that it's an either-or game - that we can either do only face-to-face advocacy or only social media outreach. We can and should do both in a complementary fashion.

You seem to act as if this is - You can't handle the truth - Jack Nicholson moment.... so let us set it straight for you.

So let us break it down for you.

Uncoordinated social media messages are disaster. As evident again in this case. No one noticed your messages, but some company lobbyists fiercely working against filing AOS fix went online, looked at these EADforI140 messages, took them to the decision makers saying that this is all that these people want. So if you were the once tweeting then you are an weapon of the opponents who don't want to see immigrant employees live free.

Again, no decision maker looked at your online petitions or tweets. No one has time for that. And you would start to realize if you ever step into the office of any of these decision makers or their staff.

IV is not against tweeting, rather we are against any out of control petitions and tweets that always misfire, as evident.

Discipline, coordination, timing and right messaging is the key to any campaign. For if you don't adhere to these facts, you become a weapon for the opponent, and that is the truth. Any online campaign MUST be in coordination with the ground game. If it is not, you either mistime or misfire, to undermine the overall effort.

For months, we kept on asking people to NOT tweet EADforI140. This fix was already done deal way back. We kept on saying it, but you or others like you did not want to listen. And we have been focusing all along on AOS because other fixes were already in the bag. But no, you think you know better, and IV doesn't know what it is doing, isn't it?

Let us remind you, because memory of such folks is very short, that if it was not for IV, none of these fixes would be there to begin with. Last year in 2nd half of 2014, when Administration when discussions were underway, every media article and everyone online were talking about Dependents exemption and Recapture, remember? We kept on telling folks that Dependents exemption and Recapture won't happen. A lot of folks online attacked IV, as if IV is the enemy for saying that Dependents exemption and Recapture won't happen. :rolleyes: We kept on telling folks to work on the fixes that are now happening. So back then as well, people like you were attacking or faulting IV, and now, you think your tweets are making the world go around.

As the nature of environment, it is a lot easier to damage or undermine something in Washington, and it is many hundred times more difficult to get something done. So, if you cannot help, atleast you can try not to undermine the effort. If for anything, had to proven must have been proven by now. At least we are doing this for 10 years, and if we don't know this a whole lot more, then at least we know this maybe just a little more than you do, isn't it?

And it is mis-characterization to say that "IV guys think that lawmakers and their staff don't pay ANY attention to social media". This is completely false. The truth is, look at our FB page, we run campaigns with specific offices, and most of the time we are successful in getting Congressional offices to get them on onboard to cosponsor H.R.213. Timing and messaging is important. And our larger population is not disciplined or equipped for the messaging. That is why we run social media campaigns in a controlled manner, and we are successful. You on the other hand were sending random uncoordinated tweets, and now we all know the outcome.

Just because you have a keyboard doesn't mean that the answer to everything is to start tweeting or starting a new online petition everyday. If this approach was effective, then why don't we see companies with deep pockets and army of consultants/lobbyists/resources create a new online petition or send tweets? And the answer to this question alone will be sufficient to convince any one who genuinely is looking for answers.

Moral of the story with social media campaigns

Discipline, coordination, timing and right messaging is the key for success.
Random uncoordinated mis-timed and mis-directed messages is arsenal for the opponent.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 04:11 PM
Admin..

Are you still maintaining that there would be a significant/good movement of dates in October arising out of the bookkeeping from the state dept?


If I say yes, and if doesn't happen for some reason, then some other jerks will say that it is IV's fault because you were clicking F-5 button on keyboard all day :rolleyes:

If I say yes, and if it turns out that folks are able to file AOS, then jerks will fault IV for less green cards because now they will be waiting for the visa number.

If I say no, then also some jerks will some how find a reason to fault us anyways.

So if you ask me, I'd say, we are not going to say anything.....

nohohon
07-16-2015, 04:13 PM
Yes. but they need to justify things to their bosses and those tweets were convenient. Who knows - maybe we were never going to get AoS, but we sure as hell shouldn't have given them a reason to back off their commitment.

Yep, this is what I meant as an "convenience excuse". The agencies pointed to these tweets to run away from the issue. I don't have the experience you do with immigration agencies but I've worked with senior management at work and have seen time and time again how they can use a non-issue and make it out to be a "serious problem" if they wanted to get out making a change. Hence, my comment that the agencies that didn't want to change would have just found a different excuse but you're absolutely right...we didn't have to make it easy for them.

There is clearly an issue with an active group of non-IV volunteers who aren't privy to your conversations, don't get the big picture and ask for things that dilute your message. I am sure you already know this but if you don't engage with this crowd and use their energy to your advantage, all your messages will continue to be diluted. And yes, I know this was likely why you asked for people to help with tweeting but you've already said that the damage was done.

You also know that what people want is "information" and they'll go to any site that claims to have it. You're not going to change that behavior - certainly not by calling people on forums as "time-wasters", "free-loaders", "naive" etc. Even if this is all true, human nature is to get defensive and to respond in kind. Of course, there are nay-sayers that will criticize anything you say or do but if you have a way of controlling the timely release of "information", you'll gain more supporters. IV has everything to lose and almost nothing to gain by getting into it with anyone and everyone that asks a question as to "when" something is going to happen.

Sorry about the "free advise". It is certainly not my intention to criticize your actions. I would love for IV to be successful because in your success lies my "immigration" future.

sunny0101
07-16-2015, 04:29 PM
Admin,

Please please help me with my concern. I really appreciate all the hard and selfless work you guys are doing for our community. I am very naive regarding this so i am seeking out for guidance and help. I would really appreciate if you could help me with my concern.

Here is what i had asked for
"I am working as a FTE for one of the largest Healthcare companies. I have 8 years on my H1 with my PD being EB3 2008. I now have an offer from a Fortune 50 company who would do my Greencard in EB2. Is this a right time to change? I almost made up my mind thinking i am going to change then came the announcement yesterday and todays clarification from Admin saying how most of us could be in a position to file for AOS. I really need this advice from you guys. Please help me out. This will help me and my family make a wise decision. Once again i appreciate all your inputs”

nohohon
07-16-2015, 04:36 PM
Admin,

Please please help me with my concern. I really appreciate all the hard and selfless work you guys are doing for our community. I am very naive regarding this so i am seeking out for guidance and help. I would really appreciate if you could help me with my concern.

Here is what i had asked for
"I am working as a FTE for one of the largest Healthcare companies. I have 8 years on my H1 with my PD being EB3 2008. I now have an offer from a Fortune 50 company who would do my Greencard in EB2. Is this a right time to change? I almost made up my mind thinking i am going to change then came the announcement yesterday and todays clarification from Admin saying how most of us could be in a position to file for AOS. I really need this advice from you guys. Please help me out. This will help me and my family make a wise decision. Once again i appreciate all your inputs”

I am obviously not the admin and don't have any "inside info". But your question is difficult to answer. Assume for one second that the IV admin actually knows what the date movement is going to be. Can you realistically expect them to send you a private message and tell you to change jobs or stay put? They're telling you that based on what they have been told that there is an expectation of significant VB movement. Even if you got an answer, the next thing that'll happen is a flood of people posting here with their priority dates asking IV to validate their job change decision.

Only you can make a decision on whether it's more important for you to have the "possibility" of becoming current in the next few months OR whether this new job offer and the perks associated with it are more important at this point of time. Good luck!

hil3182
07-16-2015, 04:46 PM
You also know that what people want is "information" and they'll go to any site that claims to have it. You're not going to change that behavior - certainly not by calling people on forums as "time-wasters", "free-loaders", "naive" etc. Even if this is all true, human nature is to get defensive and to respond in kind. Of course, there are nay-sayers that will criticize anything you say or do but if you have a way of controlling the timely release of "information", you'll gain more supporters. IV has everything to lose and almost nothing to gain by getting into it with anyone and everyone that asks a question as to "when" something is going to happen.

The issue is a lot of the access we have is because important people trust us and a lot of these negotiations are very sensitive. There is no shortage of lobbyists trying to kill our provisions or attach their provisions to our provisions and so on. So we cannot share information with people we cannot trust.

There have been times we have been itching to share information to people - but couldn't for reasons described above.

Regarding calling people "time-wasters", "free-loaders", "naive" and so on - I do it (note that this is not a "company" policy), because I find that it motivates genuine people to step forward and get involved. My language and attitude might turn off 99 people and motivate 1 person to step up and take action - but that one active person is of more use than 10,000 useless "spectators". I think its a good trade off.

Spending time on forums, signing petitions and tweeting is a complete and total waste of time and I think it would be criminal of me to not rub peoples noses in this.

Sorry about the "free advise". It is certainly not my intention to criticize your actions. I would love for IV to be successful because in your success lies my "immigration" future.

You are obviously well meaning, and after this report - I am in a good mood, so your advice is tolerated :D.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 05:16 PM
Okay so how does one explain Mr. Leon Rodriguez's comment on record about social media usage for H4 EAD. It is safe to assume IV was never part of campaign but still Director noticed it ?

Credit should be due where it is due. Some people indeed made a difference whether IV agrees or not. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. Just because somebody disagrees the method or opinion doesn't automatically mean to discount/neglect it. That is the exact reason why I choose to be an armchair warrior instead of active IV volunteer or joining advocacy days. I can't play a game of political chess between so called IV and Rest of the world of Legal Immigration Fixes in U.S.

The combative nature of some of the posts including established members on this forum is perplexing & sad at the same time coming from "high skilled" immigrants. I have knowledge of workings on K Street and there is more than what it looks on surface.


Whatever floats your boat..... just because you or unwilling doesn't mean K-street will disappear. All the best for being armchair warrior, but atleast you are honest to acknowledge that.

And you talk about "credit", what is that you want us to "credit"? Is there is monetary value you want to "credit" to someone's account? Or give some prize for the "credit"? What do you want us to do for this "credit" that you are talking about? Can you please be specific?

And if you are wanting to look beyond 1 meeting and 1 quote of Leon Rodriguez, and want to ignore years worth of lobbying that actually brought attention to the issue to get the support of the critical mass to finally make the change, then you can believe whatever you want, and there is no more discussion left. It just means you believe that having 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and tweeting make EAD for H-4 happen. And some lawyer in SF area goes around telling people he got EAD for H4 done, then there are others. You can go around believing whatever you want, and we don't want to make believe anything else. But because if we leave this unanswered, people who will come after you to read this will believe that you are right, and to set the record straight, I have no choice but to say this - anyone believing that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and tweets made EAD for H4 is living in fools paradise. It just shows the lack of understanding about the system.

Lets say H.R.213 has passed the congress and about to be signed by the President, and some guy starts posting random tweets asking the President to sign the bill. And the next day he would go around town claiming that he got H.R.213 into law. Now what do you want to say to that?

Likewise, the decision for EAD for H4 was made in 2011. Long before that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and long before anyone started tweeting. The administrative process took long time because in 2012-2013 EAD for H4 fix got entangled with the Comprehensive Immigration Reform. So the admin fix had to be put on the back burner. But the decision was already made, and the process had already begun. Towards the last leg of the admin fix, some folks started tweeting and handful of folks went to meet with Leon Rodriguez once. And you think IV owes these folks credit"? Why? EAD for H4 was already set in motion long before that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez.. And the fact is EAD for H4 fix would have happened regardless of that 1 meeting and tweets. So what "credit" are you talking? And if you ever meet with Member of Congress or bureaucrats, they will made remark in the passing (which their staff will prepare them to say depending on the audience) to make a conversation. That is all there is to that 1 remark of Leon Rodriguez in that 1 meeting. That's all. Or do you actually believe that Leon Rodriguez was reading all your online post and all your EAD for H4 tweets? PLEASE PLEASE tell me that this is not what you believe.

And you never talk about how the fix went from an idea to the drawing board stage to the final conceptualization, how many hundreds of meetings over 6 years prior to 2011 did it take to get to the stage of getting the idea into actual fix, and you think none of that is important =, or, in language that effort doesn't get any "credit", but IV owes "credit" to your 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and your tweets? Maybe you don't know that EAD for H4 decision and decision for other Admin fixes is not done by USCIS, these decisions are made by WH. Maybe you don't know that how many times IV have had a chance to share these issues and fixes with the IV. Maybe you don't know the content of all those discussions because you were not there. But dammit you are the one who have willing chosen to be armchair warrior instead of active IV volunteer or joining advocacy days. And your narrative somehow seem to suggest that this is IV's fault?

This just shows that folks who decide to not come of the shell have no idea how the system works.. You are not malicious, just naive about the process. The reason being, you have chosen the team of armchair warriors. That is also why you will miss out on the opportunity to see the real world. No matter how many facts I'd share, you will not understand what I am trying to say. For you, the universe of EAD for H4 is 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and your tweets. And that's a shame because you seem to be a smart person, only self deprived of the facts.

Perhaps you might one day realize that there is a world beyond what you know. But because you have chosen to be self-described armchair warrior, you will not be able to know that world. But that is ok, we are sure you will be fine. And rest assured, we will live as well and work on this effort without you. The only thing is, you will miss out on the opportunity to see the real world and experience of the real world. And you will continue to believe that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and your tweets brought forth EAD for H4 fix.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 05:24 PM
If I say yes, and if doesn't happen for some reason, then some other jerks will say that it is IV's fault because you were clicking F-5 button on keyboard all day :rolleyes:

If I say yes, and if it turns out that folks are able to file AOS, then jerks will fault IV for less green cards because now they will be waiting for the visa number.

If I say no, then also some jerks will some how find a reason to fault us anyways.

So if you ask me, I'd say, we are not going to say anything.....

Those career bureaucrats mean very little. WH decides policy.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 05:27 PM
Those career bureaucrats mean very little. WH decides policy.

Sorry, meant to quote "ateet"

Limmig
07-16-2015, 05:32 PM
I have read through the report and gone through this thread. My question is regarding AoS. Is it still on the discussion table?
The recommendations in the report will go far to streamline the work process by addressing the problems caused by multiplicity of agencies and volume of paperwork. The provisions regarding the I140 EAD in the report provide the scaffolding that will enable the I140 EAD to provide real job portability. These are immense gains and I thank IV for their work in making these provisions come to fruition.
But we all have different priorities because of our different circumstances (even though we are sailing in the same boat!). For me, at this stage in my life, the primary concern is aging out of H4 kids. AoS would have addressed this problem. Hence, my question if it still is a possibility. Thanks.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 05:37 PM
I have read through the report and gone through this thread. My question is regarding AoS. Is it still on the discussion table?
The recommendations in the report will go far to streamline the work process by addressing the problems caused by multiplicity of agencies and volume of paperwork. The provisions regarding the I140 EAD in the report provide the scaffolding that will enable the I140 EAD to provide real job portability. These are immense gains and I thank IV for their work in making these provisions come to fruition.
But we all have different priorities because of our different circumstances (even though we are sailing in the same boat!). For me, at this stage in my life, the primary concern is aging out of H4 kids. AoS would have addressed this problem. Hence, my question if it still is a possibility. Thanks.

The indications we have received so far are not good. But the EO is far from done. We will continue to push for AoS. Sorry about your kids. A lot people in IV are going through the same thing and this is our #1 priority.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 05:45 PM
But my concern is that why take things to the extreme and out of context when you don't agree with certain methods.

We just lost AoS because of these idiots - something we thought we had in the bag - this isn't about a simple disagreement in methods.

And didn't you read anything he said or any of my posts about about our positions regarding social media?

Regarding H4EAD: In a nutshell Leon Rodrugez is a career bureaucrat and people in his position cannot make executive decisions like give EAD's for H4. Anyone meeting with him (or any other career bureaucrat for that matter) is wasting their time.

The only reason Leon mentioned anything about social media is because some secretary handed him some note. Those tweets that you did had zero influence.

The first step in solving a problem is admitting we have a problem.
And what exactly are we in denial about?

Vsach
07-16-2015, 06:28 PM
:mad:Whatever floats your boat..... just because you or unwilling doesn't mean K-street will disappear. All the best for being armchair warrior, but atleast you are honest to acknowledge that.

And you talk about "credit", what is that you want us to "credit"? Is there is monetary value you want to "credit" to someone's account? Or give some prize for the "credit"? What do you want us to do for this "credit" that you are talking about? Can you please be specific?

And if you are wanting to look beyond 1 meeting and 1 quote of Leon Rodriguez, and want to ignore years worth of lobbying that actually brought attention to the issue to get the support of the critical mass to finally make the change, then you can believe whatever you want, and there is no more discussion left. It just means you believe that having 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and tweeting make EAD for H-4 happen. And some lawyer in SF area goes around telling people he got EAD for H4 done, then there are others. You can go around believing whatever you want, and we don't want to make believe anything else. But because if we leave this unanswered, people who will come after you to read this will believe that you are right, and to set the record straight, I have no choice but to say this - anyone believing that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and tweets made EAD for H4 is living in fools paradise. It just shows the lack of understanding about the system.

Lets say H.R.213 has passed the congress and about to be signed by the President, and some guy starts posting random tweets asking the President to sign the bill. And the next day he would go around town claiming that he got H.R.213 into law. Now what do you want to say to that?

Likewise, the decision for EAD for H4 was made in 2011. Long before that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and long before anyone started tweeting. The administrative process took long time because in 2012-2013 EAD for H4 fix got entangled with the Comprehensive Immigration Reform. So the admin fix had to be put on the back burner. But the decision was already made, and the process had already begun. Towards the last leg of the admin fix, some folks started tweeting and handful of folks went to meet with Leon Rodriguez once. And you think IV owes these folks credit"? Why? EAD for H4 was already set in motion long before that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez.. And the fact is EAD for H4 fix would have happened regardless of that 1 meeting and tweets. So what "credit" are you talking? And if you ever meet with Member of Congress or bureaucrats, they will made remark in the passing (which their staff will prepare them to say depending on the audience) to make a conversation. That is all there is to that 1 remark of Leon Rodriguez in that 1 meeting. That's all. Or do you actually believe that Leon Rodriguez was reading all your online post and all your EAD for H4 tweets? PLEASE PLEASE tell me that this is not what you believe.

And you never talk about how the fix went from an idea to the drawing board stage to the final conceptualization, how many hundreds of meetings over 6 years prior to 2011 did it take to get to the stage of getting the idea into actual fix, and you think none of that is important =, or, in language that effort doesn't get any "credit", but IV owes "credit" to your 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and your tweets? Maybe you don't know that EAD for H4 decision and decision for other Admin fixes is not done by USCIS, these decisions are made by WH. Maybe you don't know that how many times IV have had a chance to share these issues and fixes with the IV. Maybe you don't know the content of all those discussions because you were not there. But dammit you are the one who have willing chosen to be armchair warrior instead of active IV volunteer or joining advocacy days. And your narrative somehow seem to suggest that this is IV's fault?

This just shows that folks who decide to not come of the shell have no idea how the system works.. You are not malicious, just naive about the process. The reason being, you have chosen the team of armchair warriors. That is also why you will miss out on the opportunity to see the real world. No matter how many facts I'd share, you will not understand what I am trying to say. For you, the universe of EAD for H4 is 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and your tweets. And that's a shame because you seem to be a smart person, only self deprived of the facts.

Perhaps you might one day realize that there is a world beyond what you know. But because you have chosen to be self-described armchair warrior, you will not be able to know that world. But that is ok, we are sure you will be fine. And rest assured, we will live as well and work on this effort without you. The only thing is, you will miss out on the opportunity to see the real world and experience of the real world. And you will continue to believe that 1 meeting with Leon Rodriguez and your tweets brought forth EAD for H4 fix.

I strongly feel IV is doing a Great Job....some on this forum just bitch for nothing :mad:

hil3182
07-16-2015, 07:08 PM
The above post is exactly what you are in denial about.

Difference is that one is whining in forums and other is making decisions which will impact you. Again back to the point of disparaging any governmental agency heads will get you nowhere in life.

If you seriously think a bunch of tweets by invisible people is going to cause anyone in the White House to spend hundreds of manhours doing the legwork of changing Federal policy via co-ordination between at-least two agencies (in the case of H4-EAD) - you are the deluded one.

choolas2003
07-16-2015, 07:34 PM
Hello Gurus........

"We just lost AoS because of these idiots"

My question is if AoS is lost then what can be expect from visa bulletin significant movement? Not sure how to interpret both these messages on AoS lost and date movement. Can you shed some light on this.

Ramalingam
07-16-2015, 07:38 PM
If you seriously think a bunch of tweets by invisible people is going to cause anyone in the White House to spend hundreds of manhours doing the legwork of changing Federal policy via co-ordination between at-least two agencies (in the case of H4-EAD) - you are the deluded one.

IV with some other group might have played big role in bringing the H4-EAD. But after Jan 2015 there were tweets and emails send daily by a few hundred or more persons on daily basis. We cannot quantify the impact of those. But those might have played supplemental role in expediting the regulation by a few days to a few weeks. But no way to prove or disprove that but that might not do any harm. There is no way we can compare the lobbying with those emails/tweets but we cannot ignore the supplemental role. Can the individual tweets/emails can bring a regulation. That is nearly impossible. But those things could expedite some process by creating more visibility and reminder

hil3182
07-16-2015, 07:42 PM
Again you are in denial about social media. I never said that IV doesn't do anything. It's the IV's core that refuses to acknowledge other things done by other people without naming anybody specific.

We have limited resources. Going big on social media will not work for reasons described above. If you want to critique the arguments made, please do so instead of blindly saying that we are in "denial". I would also appreciate it if you could articulate specific reasons behind our "denial".

Anyways enjoy your WH moment.
Thank you.

And yes I do more work with K street lobbyists than hours you spend replying on forums for the record.
What's that supposed to mean? Can you elaborate on it some more? Do you do their IT?

If you genuinely want to help and have expertise you think we can use - and are stuck in the GC backlog, I cannot think of a reason you are holding back.


And for the record, we have been doing this for way too long and have known many lobbyists. If you genuinely know anything about how this works, you should know our reputation is DC by know. If you don't - you should ask around.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 07:47 PM
Hello Gurus........

"We just lost AoS because of these idiots"

My question is if AoS is lost then what can be expect from visa bulletin significant movement? Not sure how to interpret both these messages on AoS lost and date movement. Can you shed some light on this.

When we talk about AoS, we mean filing AoS when date is not current.

This means you would be able to file AoS as soon as your I-140 is approved (or maybe even concurrently) regardless of Priority Date.

The biggest benefit of this is your kids will not age out.

We are not saying it will not happen, we are just saying that we have not received any positive indicators from the WH that it will happen. Given the pattern we are not optimistic, but since they haven't shut the door on this - we will continue to push for it at every opportunity.

This is our #1 priority when it comes to dealing with the WH.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 07:55 PM
IV with some other group might have played big role in bringing the H4-EAD. But after Jan 2015 there were tweets and emails send daily by a few hundred or more persons on daily basis. We cannot quantify the impact of those. But those might have played supplemental role in expediting the regulation by a few days to a few weeks. But no way to prove or disprove that but that might not do any harm. There is no way we can compare the lobbying with those emails/tweets but we cannot ignore the supplemental role. Can the individual tweets/emails can bring a regulation. That is nearly impossible. But those things could expedite some process by creating more visibility and reminder

Ok. Let us accept your argument and say that it moved things along by a few days to a few weeks - do seriously you think the effort was worth it? Did that few days or a few weeks change anything in the big picture?

If those same people that followed an IV action item to get more co-sponsors for HR.213 (visiting/calling their congressman) , don't you think that is a more productive use of peoples time?

We don't have to guess the effect of the emails & tweets - it was exactly zero.

choolas2003
07-16-2015, 08:07 PM
When we talk about AoS, we mean filing AoS when date is not current.

This means you would be able to file AoS as soon as your I-140 is approved (or maybe even concurrently) regardless of Priority Date.

The biggest benefit of this is your kids will not age out.

We are not saying it will not happen, we are just saying that we have not received any positive indicators from the WH that it will happen. Given the pattern we are not optimistic, but since they haven't shut the door on this - we will continue to push for it at every opportunity.

This is our #1 priority when it comes to dealing with the WH.



Great thanks for clarifying on this and Thanks IV for all your work on behalf of us.

Have to agree with you on agency reluctance to fix all issues as it mean more workload. It is true to anyone as everyone loves to have reduced work load and will make excuses to show work is done and its no different to them. Hope they allow AoS and its sure helps a lot of family with aging kids.

Maybe people on forums dont understand the significance as they dont have aging kids to truly understand what to ask for and had they had one their demand will be different. I myself never thought about this scenario and thinking what if I had one makes me wonder what good is EAD?

Hope agency see these kids and life ahead of them as they are stuck for no reason and get AoS implemented. Good luck to all and keeping fingers crossed.

DMX17
07-16-2015, 08:32 PM
I think these tweeter/petition people should now start following campaigns simultaneously and help all people regardless of their country of birth:

"GiveMeGreenCardNow"
“Mail-it-me”
“Greencard at DMV”
“ExchangePassports” (straight to citizenship)

At least one of the above will work instantly.

It is the fault of these people who really set their target low and we have to suffer for their lack of asking for the freedom we all want right away.

Better luck next time y’all!

thokkalohdi
07-16-2015, 08:35 PM
See, what i have noticed is these twitter warriors only tweet when they see the news that something is about to happen.. till then they are hiding behind their PCs. So, no point in IV trying to shut them down.

Also, thanks to Admin, now i understand that EAD is a separate fix, that is already in works. And this report only has remaining stuff. Kool.


Second thing is , even if you know some news, then only share it few hours before the actual release of it, instead of Days ahead. Giving these twitter warriors enough time to raise stink.

Cuz, obviously you guys cant share total information, in that case why even share partial info???? it causes hype and confusion which always will backfire.

Forexample, in this thread you said "pleasantly surprised in October"... why do you need to share that info? Now ppl will speculate 2012, 2014 .. EB3 will be current etc etc.

I would say dont share any inside info at all unless you can reveal it all. If you want to share please tell us your calendar if you are going to meet someone, etc.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 08:46 PM
Again stereotyping IT crowd. Some people will never change or I should change the mentality. You just depreciated yourself. How can one even comprehend such binary personalities is beyond my belief. And for the record I don't work in IT.

Some people don't understand punctuation - like what a question mark means.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 10:35 PM
IV with some other group might have played big role in bringing the H4-EAD. But after Jan 2015 there were tweets and emails send daily by a few hundred or more persons on daily basis. We cannot quantify the impact of those. But those might have played supplemental role in expediting the regulation by a few days to a few weeks. But no way to prove or disprove that but that might not do any harm. There is no way we can compare the lobbying with those emails/tweets but we cannot ignore the supplemental role. Can the individual tweets/emails can bring a regulation. That is nearly impossible. But those things could expedite some process by creating more visibility and reminder

Are you serious? tell me you are kidding. So you actually believe that tweets made EAD for H4 happen? There is one type of effect of uncoordinated and unorganized twitter campaign = NEGATIVE.

It is quite puzzling, rather baffling that, that people know that tweets/emails cannot bring regulations/bills, but still they are unwilling to accept that there is either ZERO or NEGATIVE impact of these misguided twitter campaigns.

Look, at the max, these twitter campaigns have only one kind of value, therapeutic. For people who are stuck, by tweeting they get a false sense of impression that they did their part, but in fact, they did nothing at all. So if anyone wants to please their mind that they did their part, without actually doing it, and if that is helping you to get past your day, then that, and only that, is the value of twitter. But you need to know that using this unplanned uncoordinated twitter obsession to feed the artificial physiological aspect of your body, you are hurting the real aspect of the soul of the advocacy effort. Obviously, you think there is nothing wrong with that as long as you can get a temporary kick out of it giving you a false feeling that you did something for yourself, without actually doing it. How long can you keep lying to yourself? And if twitter campaigns were so effective, then why don't people with bigger agendas adopt it? Have you seen Oil companies doing twitter campaigns? Or have you seen tech companies spending money on twitter campaigns? If something works, then why are people with deep pockets not lining up to spend money for these type of campaigns? Can you explain that?

And in larger sense, here is the puzzle. This thread is about Admin fixes that are just announced. Fixes that will give you the freedom to live as if you would otherwise live with a green card. Not only the primary applicant, but the spouse will no longer have to wait till the 6th year of H1 to get the work permit (as in EAD for H4 fix). And instead of talking about this fix, you want to talk about EAD for H4. You want to continue to harp about your obsession with uncoordinated twitter messages, which we know for fact is 100% waste of time. But rather than listening and talking about these fixes announced by the Administration, you want to talk about (1.) Effectiveness of Twitter campaign even after acknowledging that they don't work, and (2.) EAD for H4.

Does this behavior seem normal to you? Because it doesn't seem normal to us.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 10:39 PM
Again stereotyping IT crowd. Some people will never change or I should change the mentality. You just depreciated yourself. How can one even comprehend such binary personalities is beyond my belief. And for the record I don't work in IT.

What's your problem? Big deal that someone made an assumption that you might work IT. Who cares what you do for living, just as, it is not relevant what hil3182 does for living.

If you want to talk about real substance, then lets talk about it. Because I don't see any value in your current line of exchange.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 10:52 PM
Again you are in denial about social media. I never said that IV doesn't do anything. It's the IV's core that refuses to acknowledge other things done by other people without naming anybody specific.

Anyways enjoy your WH moment. And yes I do more work with K street lobbyists than hours you spend replying on forums for the record.

You seem to keep pitching "IV" v/s "social media". Hope you realize that how dumb this is? If it makes it any better let me put it in caps:

RANDOM UNCOORDINATED MIS-TIMED AND MIS-DIRECTED MESSAGES ON SOCIAL MEDIA OR ANY MEDIA ARE WASTE OF TIME.

We have tried to explain it earlier, with examples, that without coordination with the ground game, nothing will happen by just posting messages on social media. With your selective reading, you leave out every other qualifier to make it look like there is a war between IV and social media. Not sure about your intent, but hopefully you will be able to see your messages.

And if you think that with your random uncoordinated mistimes and misdirected social media messages you are changing the world, then all powers to you. You keep doing whatever makes you happy.

We have first hand experience about the effectiveness of these twitter campaigns. And obviously, you cannot undo what we see work on the ground, can you?

hil3182
07-16-2015, 11:07 PM
You seem to keep pitching "IV" v/s "social media". Hope you realize that how dumb this is? If it makes it any better let me put it in caps:

RANDOM UNCOORDINATED MIS-TIMED AND MIS-DIRECTED MESSAGES ON SOCIAL MEDIA OR ANY MEDIA ARE WASTE OF TIME.

We have tried to explain it earlier, with examples, that without uncoordinated ground game, nothing will happen by posting messages on social media. With your selective reading, you leave out every other qualifier to make it look like there is a war between IV and social media. Not sure about your intent, but hopefully you will be able to see your messages.

And if you think that with your random uncoordinated mistimes and misdirected social media messages you are changing the world, then all powers to you. You keep doing whatever makes you happy.

We have first hand experience about the effectiveness of these twitter campaigns. And obviously, you cannot undo what we see work on the ground, can you?

I think this guy is some fwd.us clown.

They get together every month to eat some of Mark Zuckergurg's pizza and come up with good tweets & vibes - make each other feel good - you know, the stuff that world a better place.

Bhishma
07-16-2015, 11:09 PM
I request the admins and moderators to kindly ignore these fools. No matter what you say they are never convinced and no matter what you do they will never make a difference when it comes to the great deal of work you are all doing for us.
Once again from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of my friends, family and (only sane) immigrant community we thank you.
Thank You IV

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 11:11 PM
I don't disagree with you and with all due respect and each it's own.... Everybody deserves credit somewhere. Now if you don't like to take it or put a monetary or non monetary value, that's upto the individual. No need to generalize if.

Now coming to system of values and beliefs, again without being combative, not everybody agrees with a single approach. While I acknowledge the fact that failures are magnified more than successes, it's same everywhere. You as an organization are doing a great job, there's no doubt about it. But my concern is that why take things to the extreme and out of context when you don't agree with certain methods. The first step in solving a problem is admitting we have a problem.

What you seem to think as a "disagreement with method", we see it as - a matter of participation in the real deal. You can have people live in fools paradise believing that they are doing something, and at the same time, make sure they do nothing to improve their condition. That is what these misguided twitter messages are about.

And by making people believe that they are helping by posting messages is a scam perpetrated on folks. Exactly the same way, when back in 2nd half of 2014, companies, lawyers planted hundreds of paid for articles to make everyone believe that Recapture and Dependents exemption is about to happen. And when we were trying to talk sense, people like you were jumping all over us, portraying as if IV was against Recapture and Dependents exemption, some even accused IV of being against their green card :p

Well, guess what, you can't hide the truth forever. Where are those reporters who wrote those hundreds of articles Recapture and Dependents exemption? Where are all those big name over priced lawyers that you consider as your god?

You probably don't want to talk about that right now. Because now, you are obsessed with changing the word with twitter, just as you and others like you were obsessed with Recapture and Dependents exemption back in 2014. And no amount of talking sense from IV would make any difference, would it?

You are saying that:
take things to the extreme and out of context when you don't agree

Back in 2014, from people like you, we got this bullshit along the same line of arguments about Recapture and Dependents Admin fix. Where are all those people now? If your twitter campaign is so effective, then why did you not get Recapture and Dependents through your twitter messages. I know why, because now, the only fixes you want to talk about are the fixes that IV campaigned, and those are the only fixes that are happening, isn't it?

But now, because the fixes that IV advocated for are now happening, folks like you will start twitter messages for therapeutic reasons to make yourself believe that you are doing something for yourself, without actually doing anything at all. Isn't that the same way you conducted yourself with EAD for H4 twitter messages when after the fix was already decided and just when the fix was on its way to getting done, folks like you started tweeting, and are now delusional to believe that your twitter messages changed the world. How many times are you going to do the same thing over and over again expecting different result, because to us, that is a definition of insanity.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 11:13 PM
I think this guy is some fwd.us clown.

They get together every month to eat some of Mark Zuckergurg's pizza and come up with good tweets & vibes - make each other feel good - you know, the stuff that world a better place.

Real experts in social media these guys are. Not so much in passing bills or advocacy.

Administrator2
07-16-2015, 11:26 PM
I think this guy is some fwd.us clown.

They get together every month to eat some of Mark Zuckergurg's pizza and come up with good tweets & vibes - make each other feel good - you know, the stuff that world a better place.

fwd.us? Seriously? When will people learn. Have anyone going to their pizza parties ever heard what they are talking - ONLY H1

Highly skilled people need to act like "highly skilled" and need to be ahble to see through the bullshit. For if you don't, you will end up "tweeting" and believing that your tweets are changing the world. And this is as twisted idea as the idea that the earth is literally flat, and nothing can be further from the truth.

sdeshpan
07-16-2015, 11:41 PM
Thanks IV admins for the details and clarifications over the last couple of days! I have been wondering about something and not sure if it had been already answered before. If I have an approved I-140 today and haven't been able to file AOS yet, how will these new fixes help me in the case that I change jobs before they are implemented?

Basically, my point is that will these be applicable retroactively for cases where there is an approved I-140 from a previous job? Or in the example above, will I be required to re-file PERM and and a new I-140 and then wait for a year (all this assuming my date is not current at that point still) to pass to be able to benefit from this? I hope I'm asking clearly!

essell
07-16-2015, 11:41 PM
fwd.us? Seriously? When will people learn. Have anyone going to their pizza parties ever heard what they are talking - ONLY H1


In Cyber Security there is a term called BotNet (http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/definition/botnet) .
Now i believe many good people are taken for ride by FWD.US sort of guys and people behave like this.
One Day a Lawyers forum takes for ride another day another prediction site, next day a parent insurance tracking site & its employees.....Good people ultimately start behaving like zombies.

hil3182
07-16-2015, 11:45 PM
Thanks IV admins for the details and clarifications over the last couple of days! I have been wondering about something and not sure if it had been already answered before. If I have an approved I-140 today and haven't been able to file AOS yet, how will these new fixes help me in the case that I change jobs before they are implemented?

Basically, my point is that will these be applicable retroactively for cases where there is an approved I-140 from a previous job? Or in the example above, will I be required to re-file PERM and and a new I-140 and then wait for a year (all this assuming my date is not current at that point still) to pass to be able to benefit from this? I hope I'm asking clearly!

The answer is we don't know. The second we find out, we will publish it - unless we are asked not to (which is very unlikely).

This has been asked & answered today on this thread atleast once.

sdeshpan
07-16-2015, 11:59 PM
The answer is we don't know. The second we find out, we will publish it - unless we are asked not to (which is very unlikely).

This has been asked & answered today on this thread atleast once.

Thanks, much appreciated! One last thing - my understanding is that if my PD miraculously gets current over the next few months and I apply AOS and get EAD, that will be mine to keep even if I immediately change jobs. This is in contrast to the I-140/EAD being proposed which would invalidate the EAD if the employer subsequently revokes the I-140. Is that correct?

hil3182
07-17-2015, 08:01 AM
Thanks, much appreciated! One last thing - my understanding is that if my PD miraculously gets current over the next few months and I apply AOS and get EAD, that will be mine to keep even if I immediately change jobs. This is in contrast to the I-140/EAD being proposed which would invalidate the EAD if the employer subsequently revokes the I-140. Is that correct?

Regulations Are not final so take it with a grain of salt.

Our understanding is I-140EAD can be used right away provided you have an "understanding" with your employer to not withdraw the I-140. In the absence of such an understanding, it is probably best to wait out the year. Most of us, who have been stuck in backlogs for years should be able to change jobs right away - since our I-140 was approved for atleast a year.

My understanding regarding I-485 EAD is you have to wait a year after I-485 submission to use it.

If there is an opportunity to reduce or eliminate the wait time for I-140 EAD we will - since there is no basis for it in law. Wait time for I-485 EAD is statutory and cannot be changed.

abcdgc
07-17-2015, 09:01 AM
Greg Siskind scored this report
Greg Siskind’s Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report « Greg Siskind's Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report - Siskind Susser PC Siskind Susser PC (http://www.visalaw.com/greg-siskinds-scorecard-on-the-white-house-visa-modernization-report/)

Mr Siskind said that "And a big omission is allowing individuals with approved I-140s pending a year or more to file for Employment Authorization Documents. The Administration has already had its memo on this go public and has basically acknowledged that this is in the works. Why leave it out?"

Can Admin comment on this?

hil3182
07-17-2015, 09:15 AM
Greg Siskind scored this report
Greg Siskind’s Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report « Greg Siskind's Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report - Siskind Susser PC Siskind Susser PC (http://www.visalaw.com/greg-siskinds-scorecard-on-the-white-house-visa-modernization-report/)

Mr Siskind said that "And a big omission is allowing individuals with approved I-140s pending a year or more to file for Employment Authorization Documents. The Administration has already had its memo on this go public and has basically acknowledged that this is in the works. Why leave it out?"

Can Admin comment on this?

The bottom like is I-140EAD + AP is going to happen.

Everyone has a different take as to why the report was written the way it was. Administrator2 has previously shared that they deliberately left things out that were already announced (whether whether his comments are here or on FB or here I don't remember).

My view is they left out specifics so they wouldn't get sued. H4EAD is in there because they are already getting sued for it. Everything else is couched in vague terms to avoid provoking people on the hill and the anti-immigrant fundamentalists.

waitingnwaiting
07-17-2015, 09:19 AM
Your veiled attempts to disparage people again and again achieve nothing. Frankly the assumptions of IT and fwd.us talk more about a tunnel vision view and irrational thinking. Attacking is never always the best form of defense when we are trying to have a discussion. I never once said I tweeted. Was trying to have a civil discussion which seems here as an exception rather than norm.

Once you come out of your advocacy highs, maybe you'll be able to see one size fits all model doesn't work. I am sure there are pro and against forces for everything related to legal immigration, I cannot comprehend anybody here is working just for fun. Maybe you are an exception and the methods and attacks suit your attire. And yes there is a life beyond IT and fwd.us and punctuations. Zuckerberg comes to mind !

You said you know K street and you seem to be the guy who knows his shit what he is talking about. How about you guiding all of us to the victory. Please get us our green cards. Please start an organization and lobby for us. Pleeeeeeeeeeez.

hil3182
07-17-2015, 09:20 AM
Your veiled attempts to disparage people again and again achieve nothing. Frankly the assumptions of IT and fwd.us talk more about a tunnel vision view and irrational thinking. Attacking is never always the best form of defense when we are trying to have a discussion. I never once said I tweeted. Was trying to have a civil discussion which seems here as an exception rather than norm.

Once you come out of your advocacy highs, maybe you'll be able to see one size fits all model doesn't work. I am sure there are pro and against forces for everything related to legal immigration, I cannot comprehend anybody here is working just for fun. Maybe you are an exception and the methods and attacks suit your attire. And yes there is a life beyond IT and fwd.us and punctuations. Zuckerberg comes to mind !

You are coming here and giving us unsolicited advice on our social media strategy based on a vague claim of spending a substantial amount of time working with lobbyists and having some experience of social media.

If you are not here to troll, can you please give us a better idea of your background so we know whether to take you seriously or not.

jsd123
07-17-2015, 09:21 AM
I agree with IV's assertion that we skilled immigrants stuck in the GC backlog are alone in our fight. Neither the employers who deny or exploit our natural career progression nor the lawyers who have established a thriving business out of the inefficiencies and unfareness in the current immigration system playing hand in glove with employers are with us in this fight. In fact our fight in most parts is these very entities and groups.

I believe that the real solution is still a legislative change to make the system fair and simple. Something on the lines of:

"If you have lived legally in the country for more than 5 years and paid your taxes you are eligible for a permanent residency."

No matter how much salary you are drawing, what EB category you are in, how many POINTS you accumulate or whether the first employer who sponsored you is still in business and is willing to give you an "experience" letter for your fourth PERM LC !!

Is there anything of this sorts in the work in the legislative field in the near to medium future ?

hil3182
07-17-2015, 09:24 AM
I agree with IV's assertion that we skilled immigrants stuck in the GC backlog are alone in our fight. Neither the employers who deny or exploit our natural career progression nor the lawyers who have established a thriving business out of the inefficiencies and unfareness in the current immigration system playing hand in glove with employers are with us in this fight. In fact our fight in most parts is these very entities and groups.

I believe that the real solution is still a legislative change to make the system fair and simple. Something on the lines of:

"If you have lived legally in the country for more than 5 years and paid your taxes you are eligible for a permanent residency."

No matter how much salary you are drawing, what EB category you are in, how many POINTS you accumulate or whether the first employer who sponsored you is still in business and is willing to give you an "experience" letter for your fourth PERM LC !!

Is there anything of this sorts in the work in the legislative field in the near to medium future ?

No. We like to focus on achievable fixes to our problems, like per-country cap removal - HR.213.

hil3182
07-17-2015, 09:31 AM
One more thing, if anyone wants to help us met more co-sponsors to get HR.213 done, PM me with your information. We can have a call this weekend and I will walk you through what needs to be done.

Administrator2
07-17-2015, 09:53 AM
Greg Siskind scored this report
Greg Siskind’s Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report « Greg Siskind's Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report - Siskind Susser PC Siskind Susser PC (http://www.visalaw.com/greg-siskinds-scorecard-on-the-white-house-visa-modernization-report/)

Mr Siskind said that "And a big omission is allowing individuals with approved I-140s pending a year or more to file for Employment Authorization Documents. The Administration has already had its memo on this go public and has basically acknowledged that this is in the works. Why leave it out?"

Can Admin comment on this?

......

pari1234
07-17-2015, 09:54 AM
If I say yes, and if doesn't happen for some reason, then some other jerks will say that it is IV's fault because you were clicking F-5 button on keyboard all day :rolleyes:

If I say yes, and if it turns out that folks are able to file AOS, then jerks will fault IV for less green cards because now they will be waiting for the visa number.

If I say no, then also some jerks will some how find a reason to fault us anyways.

So if you ask me, I'd say, we are not going to say anything.....

To hell with those jerks....some idiots just want to criticize whatever we do... there are some (many) decent members. So, please don't worry about what those idiots say, please keep doing care for us :) and keep informing us:)

Administrator2
07-17-2015, 09:54 AM
Greg Siskind scored this report
Greg Siskind’s Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report « Greg Siskind's Scorecard on the White House Visa Modernization Report - Siskind Susser PC Siskind Susser PC (http://www.visalaw.com/greg-siskinds-scorecard-on-the-white-house-visa-modernization-report/)

Mr Siskind said that "And a big omission is allowing individuals with approved I-140s pending a year or more to file for Employment Authorization Documents. The Administration has already had its memo on this go public and has basically acknowledged that this is in the works. Why leave it out?"

Can Admin comment on this?

Thanks for sharing. As we have said earlier, we respect Greg Siskind. We don't have much respect for immigration lawyers because we believe that when it comes to policy, immigration lawyers don't have the best interest of immigrants at heart. And we think Greg is a lot better that most other lawyers.

Having said that, we think Greg is entitled to his opinion, like everyone else. If he wants to use AILA and US Chamber as standard then that is up to him. With first hand experience we believe that employers and lawyers conspire to bend the policy in favor of the employers so that employers can have more control over immigrant workers. That is why, we think that the organizations listed are not a good standard to determine the score as far as immigrant workers are concerned.

And in any case, neither AILA nor Chamber asked for the fixes that will allow immigrants to change employer after I-140 and all the other other changes associated with it. Lookup their response to RFI and you'd see what these groups actually wanted. Infact, if anything, we know that some of these groups lobbied for making immigrants wait for 1 year after approval of I-140.

These fixes in the report WILL change the system to allow immigrants to live with freedom by loosening the stranglehold of the employers and immigration lawyers to some extent. But I guess some people in the business of immigration don't like that, do they?

If Greg gives WH report F-grade for allowing immigrants more freedom, then we give Greg's analysis F-Grade for using the twisted response to RFI as a benchmark which never even wanted to let immigrants live free in the first place.

Skilled immigrants need to appreciate the WH report and what has been achieved because these fixes will definitely improve upon the current system. Public memory is very short. So let us remind everyone that last year all the over rated high priced lawyers and paid-for media reports were ONLY talking about recapture and dependents exemption. They were all saying that recapture and dependents exemption is a slam dunk. Where are those lawyers and reporters now? If it was for that staged narrative, there would have been ZERO fixes in our hand today. That is why we keep repeating to not get swayed by the opinion of lawyers, rather please use your own brain. About this whatever had to proven must have been proven by now.

Now about your specific question regarding why the report did not mention EAD for I-140 . Look, this report is an announcement for new fixes, apart from the once already in public domain. So that is why EAD for I-140 is not specifically mentioned in the report. But the fixes mentioned are all there to ensure that EAD for I-140 is practical when employer will be unable to withdraw approved I-140, and that you need not have to start your green card process all over again if you change employer or jobs after using the EAD after I-140, meaning you can file I-1485/AOS with another non-petitioning employer, and the definition of same or similar to allow you to change jobs/employers and take promotions, these are all bread and butter issues for us, and these fixes make EAD for I-140 relevant. Again, the report is about NEW announcements and it allows PORTABILITY WITH JOB MOBILITY for immigrants with approved immigrant petition.

Lastly, your quote from Greg's narrative seem to suggest getting EAD after 1 year. So be careful about how this is framed. We think there is something wrong here because the fix is to give EAD upon approval of I-140 for primary applicant and spouse. Plus, you will be able to work for your petitioning employer using EAD, and will be able to change employer immediate as well. However, up to 1 year the employer can withdraw your approved I-140. So if you change to new employer, and your current employer doesn't have objection to you changing employer, then your current employer can decide not to withdraw our approved I-140. And that is how we understand the fix. However, now if you read Greg's narrative, it suggests that you will get EAD after 1 year. And the reason we bring this up is - people will start tweeting and go mad about sending emails using this narrative. And by doing so, they will undermine themselves and others in the backlogs. We only ask you to be smart about protecting yourself and pay attention to these details. Try to see though any agenda to protect yourself.

Again, we respect for Greg, and hope that he will change his analysis to reflect the good fixes and their impact on people waiting in green card backlogs.

Administrator2
07-17-2015, 10:14 AM
Your veiled attempts to disparage people again and again achieve nothing. Frankly the assumptions of IT and fwd.us talk more about a tunnel vision view and irrational thinking. Attacking is never always the best form of defense when we are trying to have a discussion. I never once said I tweeted. Was trying to have a civil discussion which seems here as an exception rather than norm.

Once you come out of your advocacy highs, maybe you'll be able to see one size fits all model doesn't work. I am sure there are pro and against forces for everything related to legal immigration, I cannot comprehend anybody here is working just for fun. Maybe you are an exception and the methods and attacks suit your attire. And yes there is a life beyond IT and fwd.us and punctuations. Zuckerberg comes to mind !

Seriously, so you cannot get over an assumption by Hil that you may work in IT? Is that such a big deal. Who cares what you do, or what I do for living? Does that affect policy debate here? Or you just want to pick on it because you are unable to find any other relevant points to discuss here?

And no one is disparaging anyone. Infact to the contrary, we are having a civil BUT HONEST conversation. As you said, you seem to think that there are two side to this debate (a.) pro legal immigration (b.) anti legal immigration. This just show how naive you are about the overall situation.

People who pretend to be pro legal immigration doesn't always mean more green cards or to let immigrants live free. There are hundreds of different agenda within "legal immigration". And you painting everyone with the same brush and believing that the issues affecting you are the same as the once fwd.us wants - just highlights that there is a disconnect between you and reality. But according to you, we are the once with tunnel vision and irrational thinking?

We don't push for 1 size fit all, rather we advocate for freedom for immigrants and US workers, so every one could do what they want to do. And yes, there are people here who work on this issue for fun and passion of the issue because they BELIEVE in something. Everything in this world is not always about the bottom-line.

If you don't have any real point to debate, you say others are attacking you. No one is attacking anyone. But we cannot have an honest conversation without calling spade a spade. Dammit why can't we acknowledge what already is, and we think that fwd.us' only agenda is more H1s. And there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that fact. This is NOT an attack, but something that we experienced first hand and what we believe. You on the other hand is an armchair warrior believing what other people with control over the media/reporters want you to believe. In any case, you are entitled to your opinion and all the best to you.

panchi2131
07-17-2015, 10:16 AM
You said you know K street and you seem to be the guy who knows his shit what he is talking about. How about you guiding all of us to the victory. Please get us our green cards. Please start an organization and lobby for us. Pleeeeeeeeeeez.

Good Idea, perhaps if you start lobbying more and more ,your request might work :p:o

hil3182
07-17-2015, 11:00 AM
I seriously have a certain skillset which I could have better utilized with advocacy, but I choose to be an self confessed armchair warrior.

That's your prerogative. This isn't a debate club - this is an advocacy organization. There are 100's of 1000's of people stuck in GC backlogs going though hell (myself included).

If your intention is to indulge in mindless debate, there is no shortage of fora on the web where you can waste your time.

We have people volunteering day in and day out to affect change. When someone like you shows up to pontificate and is completely unwilling to put their money where their mouth is - metaphorically speaking, it gets taken very personally and just pisses people off.

Administrator2
07-17-2015, 11:00 AM
I agree with most of above except being naive about pro and anti legal immigration. I sure do understand the dynamics of everybody involved. Well though IV is well versed given the conversations that happen in DC, one can't take away the fact that Everybody has some sort of vested interests in promoting their own agenda.

While IV's agenda seems to be freedom of employment and legal labor mobility, the issue where I tend to digress or say question is that why can't the common core work together and acknowledge each other's strengths and weaknesses ? As I eluded earlier that not everybody gets along in all walks of life.

In the interest of full disclosure I have donated to IV as part of their HR 2013 and I don't necessarily have any problem in general with IV. I may not necessarily be a part of advocacy, I do certainly believe advocacy with right targeted & coordinated use of social media could have made more impact. I can't believe that everybody is that far off here not to acknowledge the issues before us are all common. Doing rounds in DC will help us, but not the only thing. You may disagree as well, but that's just my humble opinion. I seriously have a certain skillset which I could have better utilized with advocacy, but I choose to be an self confessed armchair warrior.


Totally agree with the approach - advocacy with right targeted & coordinated use of social media.

This is exactly what we have advocated all along, to coordinate the use of social media with the ground game. Without coordination, it works against the very people wanting to help.

We welcome everyone's participation at the time convenient for you to the best of your abilities. Must also mention that some things are time sensitive and time is not always a luxury.

Just to clarify one aspect, we do not advocate for "freedom of employment", rather we advocate for "freedom of all forms, as enjoyed by others in the society". There is a huge distinction between the two.

The reason some of the so-called "legal immigration groups" cannot get together is because there is a fundamental difference between these groups. Some group want legalized form of slavery and put a fancy label of "legal immigration". How can you expect us to work with those groups when that is what we are fighting against? The two are diagonally opposing ideas. It's not that e haven't tried working together, and it's not that we haven't discussed these aspects. But the differences are fundamental to the core, and thus there is no common core. You probably don't have an idea the extent to which companies and their front groups will go to ensure that immigrants are enslaved. We are sitting here in DC and we are in the middle of these discussions. What you see in the press is filtered/cleaned up version of the what goes on around here. And people who believe that their tweets are making the world go around, they have no idea what they are up against.

bnaik
07-17-2015, 11:05 AM
Hello admin, I had posted this yesterday but it got lost somewhere, so trying again:

The report talks about 2 things towards visa modernization efforts i.e "Updating the monthly visa bulletin" & "Refining monthly allocation of visas" in addition to the technology improvements that is supposed to improve efficiency.

But this does not change the current cap numbers, they need to still work within those numbers. What kind of improvements within the agencies would suddenly make it possible to significantly start moving visa dates from October and avoid retrogression?

Would this just be a supply/demand strategy change of moving the dates early during the first three quarters of year and keeping them steady later or is there going to be an influx of new visas numbers from somewhere?

Unless there is a wastage of significant visas today, what kind of improvements would suddenly allow more number of people file for green cards?

IV Admin your insights into this would be highly appreciated.

hil3182
07-17-2015, 11:09 AM
One thing on K Street is guaranteed is $$$$$$$. The number represents one or all of below. Takes years in almost all situations.

A) Vested Interests
B) Meeting with influential personalities to present problem
C) Reaching on both sides of aisle to develop solution
D) Remove political interference & lobbyists on other side
E) Sustain your agenda until it becomes part of US CFR

There are other things between the lines.

We are more than aware of this and we play the lobbying game better than many professional "lobbyists" in the immigration space.

There is a reason we are the only ones who know about the existence of the Report much less the date and even time of its release.

This is the first smart thing you have said in two days. Most people don't realize that lobbying doesn't guarantee outcomes. You just keep trying until you succeed.

vikidisi
07-17-2015, 11:16 AM
Spent a lot of time reading through the discussion here.

ateet - First, thanks for your donation 4 years ago.

No better way to say this but it is exactly because of people like you (the armchair warriors) that people are stuck in green card backlogs. IV has seen this for years and years. A lot has been said here, and there is nothing more to say except that you could really be using your energies towards something that makes a difference. You somehow want someone from IV to say that social media is important. It is, but not for the points you lay out. We use social media pretty actively. That's how we got volunteers across the country to make thousands of calls in a day to reverse the Hatch amendment earlier this year. We use it when we know it will matter.

For those that are following along, and thinking of fwd.us. Let me remind everyone that fwd.us has possible the biggest social media campaign one can imagine. Not the shitty kind that some of the current armchair warriors are involved in. (tag everyone and their brother, hashtag the shit out of everything, and just repeat that 24 hours a day. I am talking specific , targeted, multi-platofrm social media campaigns. They had videos, painful stories, tagging of congressmen, "sending of free letters" and what not. They probably poured millions into it. And even they couldn't pull off this shit! And fwd.us is owned by Facebook! Their had a great social media campaign, but their messaging was incoherent and no one really understood what they wanted (in reality it was more H1-Bs).

At IV, we talk about this stuff. We look at what's going on politically, what our opponent lobbying firms are doing, what the big ass company lawyers are doing. We munch on this stuff on a daily basis and then make calculated informed decisions on what needs to get done. What will move the needle? That's how we get things done and that's how we roll. It is a great experience and that's how we have been able to introduce legislation that already has close to 50 co-sponsors. Legislation that will change the law of this land, for generations to come.

So while appreciate your energy and enthusiasm to repeatedly ask for IV to give " credit" for a quote by Leon, when folks with experience talk here, the least you could do is try to learn from it. Hammering away at words like "in denial" and dropping names like K street lobbyists, doesn't do shit. We have over the years met , discussed , debated many folks this way. And not one (one!) has been able to come back with anything substantiative that made us rethink our strategy.

hil3182
07-17-2015, 11:53 AM
Very nicely put ! It's back to point A) Vested Interests.
Dude, we aren't idiots here - you think we don't know what we are up against?

Everybody on every forum needs to read this and figure out a way together than individualistic approach. The collective approach is missing so much that we beat things to the death.

It's almost like we agree to disagree.

No we don't have to agree to disagree. You don't know what you are talking about - and we know this for a fact. You have no clue what is going on behind the scenes.

More concretely, you have no idea about:

How many active volunteers we have
Our relationships
Our constraints


For you to parachute in and dispense advice is presumptuous. If you want to be taken seriously, come for the next advocacy event and learn something about the organization.

When you do, you will be taken seriously. You also haven't given us any idea of your background apart from some vague reference to working "with" lobbyists and having some social media experience.

Lastly, as Administrator2 has said - we do use social media in a targeted way. Here (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096170-action-items-from-ead-for-h-4-rule-announcement.html) is an example.

Administrator2
07-17-2015, 12:02 PM
Hello admin, I had posted this yesterday but it got lost somewhere, so trying again:

The report talks about 2 things towards visa modernization efforts i.e "Updating the monthly visa bulletin" & "Refining monthly allocation of visas" in addition to the technology improvements that is supposed to improve efficiency.

But this does not change the current cap numbers, they need to still work within those numbers. What kind of improvements within the agencies would suddenly make it possible to significantly start moving visa dates from October and avoid retrogression?

Would this just be a supply/demand strategy change of moving the dates early during the first three quarters of year and keeping them steady later or is there going to be an influx of new visas numbers from somewhere?

Unless there is a wastage of significant visas today, what kind of improvements would suddenly allow more number of people file for green cards?

IV Admin your insights into this would be highly appreciated.


We have already shared what we could at this time. Hope this helps.

For all others - Take it or leave it. And come October, if your date is not current, please don't come crashing down on us, because if you will, it will be right back at you. We have seen how the immature junta operates, and this is specifically directed at that immature junta who seem to believe that someone owes them something and they were deprived of what was owed to them.

hil3182
07-17-2015, 12:06 PM
Everybody on every forum needs to read this and figure out a way together than individualistic approach.

Also, that sentence above says it all. We aren't just a "forum". Less than 5% of the IV membership even visits the forum. People stop visiting when they come down to DC and see for themselves how things really work.

We have other channels of communication to get things done. Infact the "forum" is the least important part of what we do.

Administrator2
07-17-2015, 12:07 PM
Very nicely put ! It's back to point A) Vested Interests.

Everybody on every forum needs to read this and figure out a way together than individualistic approach. The collective approach is missing so much that we beat things to the death.

It's almost like we agree to disagree.



Well, in that case, there is nothing wrong with us telling the truth about it then, and it is more so unfair for you or anyone else to say that we are vilifying anyone. We are saying the truth, you may perceive it to be vilifying.

And we know that we will win, with or without you. We stand for freedom of the people, whether or not majority of those people understand, it doesn't matter to us. We do what we believe in based on the facts on the ground.

And how to do define "Vested Interests". A thief can say that he committed theft because of vested interest. Likewise, we believe that Enslaving people is cannot be merely labeled as "Vested Interests", it is for sure more than that.

highskilledwaiter
07-17-2015, 12:14 PM
......

IV, Thanks for all your time and efforts to reply to every post in this forum.

There is no doubting that IV knows more than anybody else out there.


Given the reforms/rulemakings in the pipeline at this time, am sure the situation for many of those who have I-140 filed for a year is getting trickier every passing day.

Am basing my career move purely on updates from IV in this forum and facebook page. I understand you owe nothing and like your positive interpretation of the whole WH report, one on which i was unable to conclude anything.

Just hoping, that somewhere in your positive updates , you are not throwing caution to the wind and you indeed trust that there is something in it for approved immigrant applications in the near term, that would provide the desperately needed job portability

Thank you again.

mallina
07-17-2015, 12:14 PM
1) For folks who are new and genuinely have questions about IV’s actions (more so with some of the negativity around): What does IV gain in working against our (backlogged) interests? The answer is nothing. In fact, Isn’t IV made up of a whole bunch of backlogged folks (including me) trying to improve theirs and others lives. So, have some trust.

2) For folks who know what IV does and genuinely disagrees with IV’s execution: Its fine. At the core of your heart, you probably know IV is doing something. If you can align, do it. If you cannot, do what your heart says but at least give IV a hearing just because it’s the only organization out there so you don’t do something misguided.

3) For all the folks that disagree with the tone of IV’s response at times: Know that it’s not an ideal happy world out there. There are wolves and sharks. It takes few punches to back those off.

4) For folks who are here to criticize every damn thing: We all know why you are here.

This is the time when everyone has to rally around the organization and carefully hold the progress that’s already been made and make efforts for bigger things. Before the report, what did we have, Nothing. If we don’t call this progress, I don’t know what is.

For the leadership, I can tell you that there are a lot of volunteers, some not even official members of IV but has taken part in action items and sincerely appreciate all IV does. Just that they are probably not as vocal nor as visible as they should be including me.

longwait4gc
07-17-2015, 12:47 PM
Thanks IV for all the hard work.

My 2cents.

Please make your state chapters more visible (in the website or state level facebook page). Its easy to get more people involved at state level.

aswami
07-17-2015, 01:07 PM
Hello admin, I had posted this yesterday but it got lost somewhere, so trying again:

The report talks about 2 things towards visa modernization efforts i.e "Updating the monthly visa bulletin" & "Refining monthly allocation of visas" in addition to the technology improvements that is supposed to improve efficiency.

But this does not change the current cap numbers, they need to still work within those numbers. What kind of improvements within the agencies would suddenly make it possible to significantly start moving visa dates from October and avoid retrogression?

Would this just be a supply/demand strategy change of moving the dates early during the first three quarters of year and keeping them steady later or is there going to be an influx of new visas numbers from somewhere?

Unless there is a wastage of significant visas today, what kind of improvements would suddenly allow more number of people file for green cards?

IV Admin your insights into this would be highly appreciated.

These are very good questions. Extending this to one more question: does this mean that even if there is a significant movement of current dates in the October Visa Bulletin, the wait times for the actual GCs will NOT be reduced significantly? After all, the number of GCs given out per country will remain the same. Is my understanding correct?

neversayno
07-17-2015, 04:33 PM
IV Team

I have been on several forums and follow news/tweets regularly that come up in different sources.
I do have to say NO one predicted about a report coming out. This has increased my faith in your guys double folds. Not that you have some inside workers or that you could do heavy lifting easily, but, the mere fact that you are doing what you could and helping ppl. I know i was excited to see the report( although nothing concreate came out of it).

So, thank you for all your efforts.

neversayno
07-17-2015, 04:36 PM
I am in a confused state becasue of the recent report - appreciate your inputs

I am planning to travel International but stopping my plans in hopes of getting my dates in Sep, Oct or even in 2016( anytime)

I know noone can specifically say 'how much' the VB would be come Oct. But, if you were to take a wild guess, would you guess they would hit 2010 in early 2016 atleast??

Also, do you really see 140 EAD taking effect in 2016?

Last question, is there really hopes for HR 213?

hil3182
07-17-2015, 04:42 PM
I am in a confused state becasue of the recent report - appreciate your inputs

I am planning to travel International but stopping my plans in hopes of getting my dates in Sep, Oct or even in 2016( anytime)

I know noone can specifically say 'how much' the VB would be come Oct. But, if you were to take a wild guess, would you guess they would hit 2010 in early 2016 atleast??

Also, do you really see 140 EAD taking effect in 2016?

Last question, is there really hopes for HR 213?

We cannot speak about timelines or VB movement, but can assure that we are serious about HR.213 and are not wasting anyone's time.

If you want to support HR.213, you should be able to figure out what to do from reading through this (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096306-do-your-share-important-advocacy-day-action-item.html) thread.

neversayno
07-17-2015, 04:46 PM
I calling all reps in my area. And i thank you for your direction on that.

I can understand that you can not comment on VB movement to avoid unnecessary speculations and anxiety in all. And you will hate me for my next question - given my PD is 2010 - do you see any hopes for this being current in 2016? if you want to skip this question and not guess, i am ok.

140 EAD - when is your best guess for implementation?

essell
07-17-2015, 05:14 PM
I calling all reps in my area. And i thank you for your direction on that.


Please let know what offices did you call .....

IMNotACommonMan
07-17-2015, 05:26 PM
These are very good questions. Extending this to one more question: does this mean that even if there is a significant movement of current dates in the October Visa Bulletin, the wait times for the actual GCs will NOT be reduced significantly? After all, the number of GCs given out per country will remain the same. Is my understanding correct?

Okay I will let Admins/Hil/Sangs take the technical part of the question but I would like to emphasize about 1 fact that legal immigration backlog has been compounded by different laws and rules that basically are restrictive in nature. Now we have to untangle these one knot at a time. Even though the report takes into consideration most of our issues we still have some length to go before the system can be termed as Fair.

So our issues comes in package so we have find solution in package too. Like actions in report + HR213.

Report actions will help ease some pressure by getting us EAD when I140 is approved, more flexibly in changing job, Security of keeping I140 dates when we change job, advancing the VB in a more calculated manner etc, the other part of the package is HR213 and removal of country limit.

Once we get both of these only then we will have some relief. IV has always been confident about the report and they are confident about HR213 as well. Great momentum we see with HR213 and hope to push it across the line. But please do you bit, step forward join IV and contribute to your local chapter.


A Legal Immigrant,
IMNotACommonMan

PS: For all of you who are not seeing my post on other forum is becouse I have been banned for doing the community work. So you can see who stands for you and who don't.

hil3182
07-17-2015, 05:50 PM
Please let know what offices did you call .....

And who you spoke to. Others can follow up with the same person to increase the impact.

Thank you for your good work neversayno. There is no doubt in my mind that you are good guy who is here to contribute and not just looking for information.

vikastaneja
07-17-2015, 06:14 PM
Assuming that it becomes law like h4 ead and all eligible I140 people start getting EAD, what will happen to h4 dependents?

hil3182
07-17-2015, 06:25 PM
Assuming that it becomes law like h4 ead and all eligible I140 people start getting EAD, what will happen to h4 dependents?

It will be regulation, not law which means the next President could change it back.

thokkalohdi
07-17-2015, 06:31 PM
It will be regulation, not law which means the next President could change it back.

:D :rolleyes: yeah.. that will be on top of agenda... let make a rule change that will effect 0 citizens... just because he just wanted to...

hil3182
07-17-2015, 07:19 PM
:D :rolleyes: yeah.. that will be on top of agenda... let make a rule change that will effect 0 citizens... just because he just wanted to...

Who knows. Companies will loose a lot of money on this.

I have met some of their lobbyists, let me assure you - they are quite shameless. They will try - this is not an academic threat.

There are multiple lobbying organizations - whose sole purpose is more H1-B's. When 15-20% (probably much higher for pure tech firms) of their clients' tech workforce starts leaving, they will direct their attentions elsewhere.

You have no idea what we are up against. The fact that we have come so far on the EO is a testament firstly to the WH and a few people in the DHS - who really do care about the little guy and secondly to our strength as an organization.

We are making happen fixes that are in direct conflict with every single "legal immigration" lobbying firm out there.

After the next election there will be a new Administration with new people in key positions. Who knows what their background will be and where their loyalties lie.

Political risks and lawsuits are the reasons the administration is crossing every 't' and dotting every 'i' with all administrative fixes. If they do it right the next administration will have to go through the rule making process all over again to restore the status quo. Having to through the rule making process all over again will make a restoration of this pathetic situation less likely - but it is still possible.

Don't be arrogant. You should always be ready to fight for your rights, just like we have been doing for the last few years. I guarantee you, if they try to take it away, we will fight against it tooth and nail - but it is still possible.



Meanwhile I think we should start talking about HR.213 again. Speculating about the EO - while fun, entertaining and gratifying for us isn't going to change anything.

thokkalohdi
07-17-2015, 07:46 PM
Meanwhile I think we should start talking about HR.213 again. Speculating about the EO - while fun, entertaining and gratifying for us isn't going to change anything.

i think i understand what you are saying... AFAIK no body will be happy with just EAD cards.. ppl and esp young guys who just got their h1s or guys coming in from India, when i explain the process i can see disgust on their face about their situation. Govt. needs to fix this once and for all.

Administrator2
07-17-2015, 08:23 PM
i think i understand what you are saying... AFAIK no body will be happy with just EAD cards.. ppl and esp young guys who just got their h1s or guys coming in from India, when i explain the process i can see disgust on their face about their situation. Govt. needs to fix this once and for all.

And who is going to make the government do that? You, sitting behind a computer. Or those new guys on H1 who haven't done anything to improve their own condition, other than ofcourse expressing disgust on their faces. Last time we checked, no change in the system has been brought by just expressing disgust, have they?

In a democratic process government will only do things that people ask them to do. And if people undergoing an issue are unwilling to express anything other than disgust to each other, then how will the government know that they have to fix something?

It seems you do understand, I just wanted to make sure that you also know that talking to each other on forums WILL NOT change anything, and, as you can tell, making disgusting faces at the system isn't helping either.

hil3182
07-17-2015, 08:46 PM
And who is going to make the government do that? You, sitting behind a computer. Or those new guys on H1 who haven't done anything to improve their own condition, other than ofcourse expressing disgust on their faces. Last time we checked, no change in the system has been brought by just expressing disgust, have they?

In a democratic process government will only do things that people ask them to do. And if people undergoing an issue are unwilling to express anything other than disgust to each other, then how will the government know that they have to fix something?

It seems you do understand, I just wanted to make sure that you also know that talking to each other on forums WILL NOT change anything, and, as you can tell, making disgusting faces at the system isn't helping either.

If you want to be THE problem, hide behind your computer and post on forums (including this one).

If you want to be a part of the solution, take action as described here (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/3096306-do-your-share-important-advocacy-day-action-item.html)

sengs
07-17-2015, 11:25 PM
PS: For all of you who are not seeing my post on other forum is becouse I have been banned for doing the community work. So you can see who stands for you and who don't.

Trying to baptize the non-believers? Eh! :p

They must have been very desperate to hold their fortress of armchair soldiers strong.:D:D

IMNotACommonMan
07-18-2015, 12:28 PM
Trying to baptize the non-believers? Eh! :p

They must have been very desperate to hold their fortress of armchair soldiers strong.:D:D

Very well said SengS, this division is what has kept us in this nightmare for a long time. If and only if people understand who are with them and who are against only then they will be out of this mess of backlog.

It pains me as an individual to see that the people IV fighting for are not joining together. It's like people are on an induced fantasy land state where everything is good but in reality it's totally opposite exactly like the movie Matrix.

People all around cry and whine about IV's communication and stuff and I agree that should be the approach to reply back to sane questions but sometimes it's necessary to show the reality. For example if I am hysterical and going over the cliff and my friend slap me to wake me up should I complain that he slapped me or should I thank him to save my life.

If and only if we are together we will out of this nightmare but unity is a far fetched dream. IV folks the amazing job that you guys are doing please keep doing it, as you are the only ones standing for our rights.

A Legal Immigrant,
IMNotACommonMan

hil3182
07-18-2015, 12:42 PM
People all around cry and whine about IV's communication and stuff and I agree that should be the approach to reply back to sane questions but sometimes it's necessary to show the reality. For example if I am hysterical and going over the cliff and my friend slap me to wake me up should I complain that he slapped me or should I thank him to save my life.

You do good work. The people who don't want to do anything will always find excuses.

Bhishma
07-18-2015, 11:18 PM
It will be regulation, not law which means the next President could change it back.

Will this regulation also go through a rule making process?

essell
07-18-2015, 11:30 PM
Will this regulation also go through a rule making process?
I understand regulations always go thru the rule making process. However, some fixes go administrative memos (example of memo can be one Jan 2010 memo).

ne9897
07-21-2015, 02:41 PM
I have been trying to reach Senator ted Cruz and John Coryn in TX-2 but their calls go to either voicemail where I can leave a message or I get a message that they are experiencing larger call volumes and there is no staff member available.
I have left messages and used contact us form to show support for HR 213 but is someone else experiencing similar inaccessibility?

hil3182
07-21-2015, 04:50 PM
I have been trying to reach Senator ted Cruz and John Coryn in TX-2 but their calls go to either voicemail where I can leave a message or I get a message that they are experiencing larger call volumes and there is no staff member available.
I have left messages and used contact us form to show support for HR 213 but is someone else experiencing similar inaccessibility?

Thank you for reaching out in the real world instead of succumbing to the temptation of tweeting & signing useless petitions.

In general when you call you should always be prepared for the possibility of getting to a voicemail.

In your case, I would suggest making an appointment to visit their local offices, if they tell you to go to DC, tell them that you tried, but only got voicemail and no callback.

Since you are calling Senators, you should be asking them to introduce a companion to the House bill.

If you can't visit their district office, try calling their district office and tell them that you have been calling their DC office trying to get hold of someone to talk about immigration, but cannot. Maybe, they will give you a direct number.

Thank you for stepping forward.

moon_walker333
07-21-2015, 05:06 PM
Now you can write to all your Representatives at once, easily.

Use this new website created by Electronic Frontier Foundation:
https://democracy.io

Read this article for more info:
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/n...ew-clicks-away

Admins, let us know if we should not be using this medium of communication over Phone calls.

hil3182
07-21-2015, 05:58 PM
Now you can write to all your Representatives at once, easily.

Use this new website created by Electronic Frontier Foundation:
https://democracy.io

Read this article for more info:
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/n...ew-clicks-away

Admins, let us know if we should not be using this medium of communication over Phone calls.

I cannot speak for that specific website.

However, In general we prefer that people stay away from sites that promise "canned" or "bulk" communications.

You actually want your issue noticed and acknowledged, there is no substitute with interacting with a human being. Anything less than that and you could be wasting your time.

Please take the time to craft your own message & figure out a way to communicate it. Your message might not be as elegant as it would otherwise would be had the resources of a group of people been applied to crafting it - but it will stand out, get noticed and hopefully be a step towards solving our problem.

Ne9897 needs to find a way to get the message to the person who deals with immigration policy in the Senators offices. This is ideally done by calling the DC or district offices and asking for the correct person. If the call goes to voicemail all the time, one way to solve the problem would be to get the immigration persons email address and send the person an email.

There are many ways to solve the problem. Resorting to a canned/bulk email service is the worst possible one because it has the maximum probability of being ignored.

hetaljdave
07-21-2015, 10:06 PM
Thank you IV for the good news!!! Keep up the good work!!!

neodyn55
07-23-2015, 02:17 AM
I'm not sure this is the right thread for this, but I'm curious: does IV have input into USCIS's drafting of the current I-140 EAD + AP rule?

I've been hearing random talk that this rule won't be retroactive. It should be made retroactive otherwise anyone waiting for years with an I-140 will be shafted.

Also, change in employer, if the previous employer hasn't revoked the I-140. The unrevoked I-140 can be used for 3-year H1B extensions and even H4 EAD, so it makes no sense that it can't be used for I-140 EAD. In addition, you can even file I-485 based on the older I-140 with the intent of returning to the older employer.

Thoughts?

sengs
07-23-2015, 06:54 AM
I'm not sure this is the right thread for this, but I'm curious: does IV have input into USCIS's drafting of the current I-140 EAD + AP rule?

I've been hearing random talk that this rule won't be retroactive. It should be made retroactive otherwise anyone waiting for years with an I-140 will be shafted.

Also, change in employer, if the previous employer hasn't revoked the I-140. The unrevoked I-140 can be used for 3-year H1B extensions and even H4 EAD, so it makes no sense that it can't be used for I-140 EAD. In addition, you can even file I-485 based on the older I-140 with the intent of returning to the older employer.

Thoughts?

Many of the fixes mentioned in the recent report are support fixes for I140 EAD/AP to become fully functional, like the ownership of I140 after 1 year of approval, and same or similar job clarification etc. These fixes will clear a lot of confusion. I agree with you that if unrevoked I-140 can be used for H1B extension etc, it should also be valid for I-140 EAD/AP.

Whatever speculation/rumor/analysis going on regarding I-140 EAD/AP is total BS, because NO ONE yet knows what rules USCIS is going to propose in October 2015. We have been telling you that forums of certain lawyers and insurance agencies are run to maintain these confusions so that users go back to them again and again and help them retain their business. This Administration has not involved either these businesses or the corporate houses to formulate the rules that they are coming up with. As you may have noticed this time, how the big name lawyers of AILA were totally blindsided when the report was published. They are now trying to fix their business by confusing people with utter nonsense.

Saying that, I will suggest to wait till the October release of Proposed Rules. Once announced, we will know the actual language of the rules. There will be a 30-60 days comment period and all of us should voice our concerns, if the rules do not include what we want. :)

ne9897
07-23-2015, 09:27 AM
I cannot speak for that specific website.

However, In general we prefer that people stay away from sites that promise "canned" or "bulk" communications.

You actually want your issue noticed and acknowledged, there is no substitute with interacting with a human being. Anything less than that and you could be wasting your time.

Please take the time to craft your own message & figure out a way to communicate it. Your message might not be as elegant as it would otherwise would be had the resources of a group of people been applied to crafting it - but it will stand out, get noticed and hopefully be a step towards solving our problem.

Ne9897 needs to find a way to get the message to the person who deals with immigration policy in the Senators offices. This is ideally done by calling the DC or district offices and asking for the correct person. If the call goes to voicemail all the time, one way to solve the problem would be to get the immigration persons email address and send the person an email.

There are many ways to solve the problem. Resorting to a canned/bulk email service is the worst possible one because it has the maximum probability of being ignored.

I have left Voice messages in support of HR 213 however I am now going to try and call TX office. I was callign DC because TX office told me that the LAs are in DC and not in TX. Will try asking for email address.

waitingnwaiting
07-23-2015, 11:45 AM
Now you can write to all your Representatives at once, easily.

Use this new website created by Electronic Frontier Foundation:
https://democracy.io

Read this article for more info:
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/n...ew-clicks-away

Admins, let us know if we should not be using this medium of communication over Phone calls.

Emailing and Tweeting is about as useful as a third nipple. This needs to stop. I really do not know why high skilled people do not get it.

Maybe if you quote the above whenever someone emails or tweets, they will remember the uselessness of it.

DMX17
07-23-2015, 01:03 PM
waitingnwating - thanks for the humor. lol

neodyn55
07-23-2015, 03:22 PM
Many of the fixes mentioned in the recent report are support fixes for I140 EAD/AP to become fully functional, like the ownership of I140 after 1 year of approval, and same or similar job clarification etc. These fixes will clear a lot of confusion. I agree with you that if unrevoked I-140 can be used for H1B extension etc, it should also be valid for I-140 EAD/AP.

Whatever speculation/rumor/analysis going on regarding I-140 EAD/AP is total BS, because NO ONE yet knows what rules USCIS is going to propose in October 2015. We have been telling you that forums of certain lawyers and insurance agencies are run to maintain these confusions so that users go back to them again and again and help them retain their business. This Administration has not involved either these businesses or the corporate houses to formulate the rules that they are coming up with. As you may have noticed this time, how the big name lawyers of AILA were totally blindsided when the report was published. They are now trying to fix their business by confusing people with utter nonsense.

Saying that, I will suggest to wait till the October release of Proposed Rules. Once announced, we will know the actual language of the rules. There will be a 30-60 days comment period and all of us should voice our concerns, if the rules do not include what we want. :)

Gotcha! Actually the speculation has been voiced in these forums as well, but I get your overall point.

If currently there's no channel to provide input to USCIS regarding this, then comments are our best bet. Here's hoping that it actually happens in October!

Hopefully our community rallies together and doesn't provide idiotic ad-hoc input to the comments request - hopefully we can all work as a group and provide meaningful and actionable outputs and neutralize any anti-worker provisions that are sure to come along. The lobby you mention is sure to be organized, and we must as well.

tc_kannan
07-23-2015, 03:53 PM
Understanding the Potential Impact of Executive Action on Immigration Enforcement | migrationpolicy.org (http://migrationpolicy.org/research/understanding-potential-impact-executive-action-immigration-enforcement)

DMX17
07-28-2015, 09:57 AM
Just for fun, read the comments provided by the legal community here:

Regulations.gov (http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketBrowser;rpp=50;so=DESC;sb=docId;po=0;dct=P S;D=USCIS-2012-0003)

They seem to be asking DHS to expedite the I-140 EAD/AP using an unrelated rule and thereby indirectly opposing the listed rule. Gee, when will they understand?

waitingnwaiting
07-28-2015, 10:05 AM
Just for fun, read the comments provided by the legal community here:

Regulations.gov (http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketBrowser;rpp=50;so=DESC;sb=docId;po=0;dct=P S;D=USCIS-2012-0003)

They seem to be asking DHS to expedite the I-140 EAD/AP using an unrelated rule and thereby indirectly opposing the listed rule. Gee, when will they understand?

This is funny, sad and irritating at the same time.
Firstly a lot of these so called high skilled people cannot write proper english. There are so many typos. some words are all caps. That is so rude. It shows that they are not serious enough.

This is for Admin fixes but some people have written about HR213 etc. It shows how little they know about this country they want to become part of.

Majority of comments are begging and /or using flowed logic like we are paying taxes and so we should get green card etc.

More can be written but enough said. You guys get it when people act uncoordinated without awareness they damage than do any good.

Sam_Ch
07-28-2015, 04:57 PM
This is funny, sad and irritating at the same time.
Firstly a lot of these so called high skilled people cannot write proper english. There are so many typos. some words are all caps. That is so rude. It shows that they are not serious enough.

This is for Admin fixes but some people have written about HR213 etc. It shows how little they know about this country they want to become part of.

Majority of comments are begging and /or using flowed logic like we are paying taxes and so we should get green card etc.

More can be written but enough said. You guys get it when people act uncoordinated without awareness they damage than do any good.

I appreciate what you guys do for the Indian immigrant community. Many of the people who come here are from smaller towns in India and not necessarily from metros with a higher standard of basic English education, so yes they will be lacking in proper sentence structure and grammar. Please forgive them for that because there is no point in highlighting that. They too came here for the same reasons the rest of us came here, to better our life. Many of us don't understand the difference between a Right and a Privilege in a foreign country and a lot of the issues stem from that.

Secondly the reason they come of as ignorant is because they are genuinely not aware of the legislative process. They will go to mass forums like and will follow what some people say and there is nothing you can do about it unless you really want to take that challenge on. They are not aware of the 'damage' they are doing because no one explained to them what is the impact and repercussions of posting comments on regulations.gov.

If you really want people to follow your lead, maybe a better option would be to actually make immigrationvoice.org a powerful online platform to unite people and provide them insight into what steps will make the most impact. So redirect the traffic from websites like and welcome them into the forum and provide them with articles which will turn the light on in their minds. You already have a good core group of admins who are recognized in D.C. as an authoritative voice so you have the knowledge-base to provide people with information to make informed decisions. And yes, social media is powerful enough to affect and change outcomes.

From my perspective, you don't have a captive audience and are relying on a few hundred or even less people to pull a huge load. This is just a small sample of the thousands of immigrants who are going through these pains. But I am sure you know that judging by the amount of comments that people are providing misplaced though they may be. If you are willing to complement the grassroots approach with a more mass social media approach, a good time to try that will be for HR 213. Who knows what are the chances of it passing the House and the Senate and landing on the President's desk. With the House, Senate and the WH being so divergent, one could realistically question if it is realizable, so it may be worth a shot to try a different approach. I am not taking a shot at your push for HR213 but IMHO as a neutral observer who is not affected by this, Washington is pretty deeply divided now.

Wishing you the best for your many campaigns!

waitingnwaiting
07-29-2015, 08:43 AM
Sam_Ch you are obviously not one of us. If you were one of us, you would have volunteered to fix what you think is wrong and steer the organization by discussing your ideas directly with the teams. And become part of the volunteer team where you thought your skills are best needed.

I think there is a saying about unsolicited advice and what it is worth.

sg27
07-29-2015, 07:24 PM
Sam_Ch you are obviously not one of us. If you were one of us, you would have volunteered to fix what you think is wrong and steer the organization by discussing your ideas directly with the teams. And become part of the volunteer team where you thought your skills are best needed.

I think there is a saying about unsolicited advice and what it is worth.

Well....First thing first...if this is how you treat every new person on this forum, there will hardly be a chance to grow this community from hundreds to thousands or even more. Do not outcast people because they are expressing their opinion....and whether you meant to do that or not, this is what exactly it looked like.

Plus it would be nice if you would have given any thought to what SAM_CH is saying and to me (I understand if you disagree) it makes a lot of sense. If this is how you treat people expressing their opinion, I can't imagine them being able to steer the organization by discussing their ideas....

I think there is a saying about teamwork and right to speak/express but guess you would not understand....

essell
07-29-2015, 10:39 PM
Washington is pretty deeply divided now.

You have no Idea how much support you receive from both sides on our issue.

Would appreciate you call your state congressmen for support as you will notice most members want to do the right thing ....especially when they see their constituents suffering.

There are many people who have been working for this cause for many many years and and once you start participating you will realize discussion on ideas, pros/cons.

Administrator2
07-29-2015, 10:47 PM
Guys please, is there a point of this back-and-forth? This is not helpful to our effort. Frankly, I can't even figure out the issue with this back and forth. For once, can we all be nice to each other and everyone around us?

And what are these mindless comments on regulation:

Provisional Unlawful Presence Waivers of Inadmissibility for Certain Immediate Relatives (http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketBrowser;rpp=50;so=DESC;sb=docId;po=0;dct=P S;D=USCIS-2012-0003)

Who are there mean people?
Sanjive Kumar
Ketan Patel
Ajit Ravindran
Aman Singh
Raj G.
Amit Goswami
Meena Sundar
.....

There comments are EXTREMELY DAMAGING to everyone reading this. This regulation is NOT competing with other regulations. All there regulations are being done in parallel. The negative comments on this regulation are insane and completely mindless.

We understand that simple minded people might reach a conclusion that if anything is happening for undocumented then it might mean that something is being taken away from legal immigrants? That is simply not true. Not only that, this is totally the other way around. This is twisted outlook, one that will not take you far in life.

These negative comments are reprehensible and downright mean. People who posted these should be ashamed of themselves. But there is a way to fix it, by posting positive comments to support this regulation. And if that is too much to ask, then please do yourself a favor and not post anything because your negative comments is only hurting one and only one party - you. Even if it is hard for you to understand, that is ok, please trust that any negative comment on the regulation is hurting your cause.

Administrator2
07-29-2015, 10:55 PM
I can't believe this. These comments are F&$#ING insane. STOP IT. These negative comments will come back to bite our regulatory fixes. These high skilled illiterates posting negative comments are hurting/even causing delays/reversal of our admin fixes.

If there is anything, I know this - anyone who thinks that attacking this regulation will somehow positively affect them is the biggest fool on this planet.

IMNotACommonMan
07-29-2015, 11:02 PM
Well....First thing first...if this is how you treat every new person on this forum, there will hardly be a chance to grow this community from hundreds to thousands or even more. Do not outcast people because they are expressing their opinion....and whether you meant to do that or not, this is what exactly it looked like.

Plus it would be nice if you would have given any thought to what SAM_CH is saying and to me (I understand if you disagree) it makes a lot of sense. If this is how you treat people expressing their opinion, I can't imagine them being able to steer the organization by discussing their ideas....

I think there is a saying about teamwork and right to speak/express but guess you would not understand....

Please read carefully what waiting waiting is saying. He is exactly saying the same thing that has been put before in an elaborate manner by the commentator to whom he replied.

IV as an organization is not just forum, less than 1% of IV volunteers comes online to answer the online question. When he says one of us, it means the one on the ground, volunteers that goes home to home to encourage people to call their reps or meet their congressman. Folks who on weekends goes to shops, malls, religious places anything that is frequented by 'our' community just to encourage them do what is right. Volunteers who leave their homes and family and visit DC to put across the message, fly from all corner from this country to participate or volunteers who actually march in the freedom March just to showcase our issues.

The commentator said that the folks are ignorant as the come from small town and villages and not metros, not sure if my small town of few thousand will qualify as a metro or many hundred of IV volunteers that has similar background. No Sir the folks who are putting these comments are not the ones who do not know or do not understand anything but rather those who do and that is why are aware of things. Still they want to put in comments that may actually hurt our cause, a cause that is greater than any individual or individuals. The cause for which thousands have worked hard and still fighting. The cause that may ultimately help our whole community.

Yes the decorum of words is essential but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Please understand we can try and wake up folks who are actually sleeping but who are pretending to be sleeping can't be awaken.

When you as an individual get involved with this movement only then you will understand what it takes and how it feels.

I have just one request of all the folks reading this please do not put unneceessary and damaging comments that may ultimately affect us all, here or anywhere else including government sites, we all are High Skilled Immigrants and interestingly from the same country let's just show that we are highly skilled immigrants.

A Legal Immigrant,
IMNotACommonMan

abcdgc
07-29-2015, 11:11 PM
I can't believe this. These comments are F&$#ING insane. STOP IT. These negative comments will come back to bite our regulatory fixes. These high skilled illiterates posting negative comments are hurting/even causing delays/reversal of our admin fixes.
If there is anything, I know this - anyone who thinks that attacking this regulation will somehow positively affect them is the biggest fool on this planet.
it could be kamakazee and his bunch of idiots

Administrator2
07-29-2015, 11:20 PM
it could be kamakazee and his bunch of idiots

Who is kamkaze? If you know these people then can you please tell them to STOP these negative comments. People need to mature up and stop acting like children. This mindless negative comments is hurting everyone.