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abcdgc
03-20-2015, 03:11 PM
This other bunch of are asking to send the following email. Admin should we also send this message?

Yesterday’s teleconference ....................... make sure that these do not make it to the draft rule.

Administrator2
03-20-2015, 03:32 PM
Who is sending this message? Why is this person acting like an idiot?

We have worked on EAD for I-140 for years now. This message is damaging many years of work on our fix. This is obviously some kid who has absolutely no idea about what is being discussed behind the scenes. We shared in September of last year (6 months back) that this fix will happen. This is our idea. Now, this guy is screwing things up in the disguise of helping with this fix.

Why is he negotiating with himself. Our position has always been no wait times after I-140. And this has been our position and that is what we expect to get. The comments by some immigration lawyers batting for companies were outrageous. But this message is making sure that we play right into the hands of those lawyers on the call. This message asking to wait for 180 days is undermining our years of work. We have negotiated no wait after I-140. Who gives a flying f$#k about what 2 lawyers say in the call attended by 2000 people. There are 11,000 immigration lawyers, who cares what 2 of them say? But the idiot who wrote this is either knowingly or unknowing acting as an agent of those lawyers, or, he has f&$k no idea about policy making. That is why he is negotiating with himself and offering that each one of us wait for 180 days after I-140, where as the original fix is there there is no wait time after I-140.

And cost of labor cannot be recovered from employee. This is codified in the law. This is not some regulation that can be changed. So why are we again saying something for Admin fix that is already in the law? Again, this is like negotiating with yourself to weaken your own position.

This is what happen when you think that Advocacy is sending random tweets or starting a website. This message is more like shooting yourself in the foot, and shooting everyone else also.

We urge everyone DO NOT to send this message to anyone. By sending this message you will be hurting the overall effort. If this guy wants to wait for 180 days after getting EAD then that is his business, why should others wait for 180 days? Stop being a jerk and leave EAD for I-140 fix alone.

sengs
03-20-2015, 03:48 PM
relieved. thanks Admin. :)

sengs
03-20-2015, 03:50 PM
Also, please post this in IV Facebook page. Many of these kids are follow IV Facebook page. Thanks.

braveone
03-20-2015, 03:55 PM
Who is sending this message? Why is this person acting like an idiot?

We have worked on EAD for I-140 for years now. This message is damaging many years of work on our fix. This is obviously some kid who has absolutely no idea about what is being discussed behind the scenes. We shared in September of last year (6 months back) that this fix will happen. This is our idea. Now, this guy is screwing things up in the disguise of helping with this fix.

Why is he negotiating with himself. Our position has always been no wait times after I-140. And this has been our position and that is what we expect to get. The comments by some immigration lawyers batting for companies were outrageous. But this message is making sure that we play right into the hands of those lawyers on the call. This message asking to wait for 180 days is undermining our years of work. We have negotiated no wait after I-140. Who gives a flying f$#k about what 2 lawyers say in the call attended by 2000 people. There are 11,000 immigration lawyers, who cares what 2 of them say? But the idiot who wrote this is either knowingly or unknowing acting as an agent of those lawyers, or, he has f&$k no idea about policy making. That is why he is negotiating with himself and offering that each one of us wait for 180 days after I-140, where as the original fix is there there is no wait time after I-140.

And cost of labor cannot be recovered from employee. This is codified in the law. This is not some regulation that can be changed. So why are we again saying something for Admin fix that is already in the law? Again, this is like negotiating with yourself to weaken your own position.

This is what happen when you think that Advocacy is sending random tweets or starting a website. This message is more like shooting yourself in the foot, and shooting everyone else also.

We urge everyone DO NOT to send this message to anyone. By sending this message you will be hurting the overall effort. If this guy wants to wait for 180 days after getting EAD then that is his business, why should others wait for 180 days? Stop being a jerk and leave EAD for I-140 fix alone.

This is comforting. Do you want us to do anything? Please let me know how I can help. I want to help and do my share.

VolatilityMaster
03-20-2015, 04:12 PM
Dear Admin,

I am having difficulty to understand the purpose of yesterday's teleconference. Today is the due date that they submit recommendations to the WH. DO USCIS have their proposed rules ready? If the rules are ready, what's the point asking for feedback at the last minute? If not, then what have they been doing during the past 120 days?

Also I am keen to know if the rulemaking process consists (1) Economical Analysis Rule Making (2) Notice n Comments Period (3) Taking Comments feedback n-Number of times, responding to comments (4) Write a Final Rule (5) Agency Clearance, (6) Budgeting (7) 90-days to review rules. Then which step are we standing now? Many says we are at step3, but for us to be at step3, there has to be the proposed rule which we don't see it anywhere.

Many Thanks

DMX17
03-20-2015, 04:41 PM
Better to delete this post if it hurts the cause.

greyhair
03-20-2015, 04:41 PM
Admin2,

People are mostly like sheep. This heard mentality will force them to do anything they are told. They will not think before start typing on the keyboards. IV should post clear directions every day. In the absence of clear instructions, people will start following any guy who posts anything not realizing that it might hurt their cause :-)

Administrator2
03-20-2015, 05:48 PM
Admin2,

People are mostly like sheep. This heard mentality will force them to do anything they are told. They will not think before start typing on the keyboards. IV should post clear directions every day. In the absence of clear instructions, people will start following any guy who posts anything not realizing that it might hurt their cause :-)

Let's be realistic here. Although we would like to provide daily updates as well but the truth is the issue doesn't work like that. Fixes happen at their own pace and there is no way to provide daily newspaper style update as to what is going on. People who truly care for fixes need to start acting like adults and not jump the gun on the drop of a hat every time something happens. We have tried to say this before and let us say this again - doing this for near 10 years we have reached some maturity level in our advocacy effort. You will know this only if you come out of you shell and safe zone and come to DC for Advocacy event.

As you said, just because we have a keyboard doesn't mean we frantically start sending emails as soon as something happens. We request you to save that energy and be connected.

We periodically post real targeted action items based intel on the ground. There is no need to starting sending emails or tweets because that is not helpful, and often it does hurt.

If it helps, there are a couple of relevant points -
1.) DO NOT send any message, tweet, email, call to Senator Sessions office

2.) DO NOT send any message, tweet, email, call to Senator Grassley office

3.) Save your energy for the actionable targeted and meaningful action items.
We are an advocacy organization, not a live update website. We DO NOT post every detail of every meeting. If post everything online then we run the risk of losing the trust of the policy makers, and they will not be willing to openly discuss policy matters with us, which will diminish our ability to get things done. And we am sure none of us want that.

4.) You may have the urge to know what is going on, but what good is it if it interferes with our ability to get things done. So the choice is between Live update with diminished ability OR acting in a matured manner and getting things done.

5.) We always honest update when it doesn't undermine our ability or when we are not running the risk to undermine the trust of people trying to help us. For example - we shared 6 months back about EAD for I-140 fix.

6.) You saw a snapshot of what most immigration lawyers want on the call yesterday. They are united. If we want to be successful, we need to stick together. You will not do IV a favor by sticking together, you will do yourself a favor. You are not sending email or calling your member of congress as a favor to IV, you are doing it for yourself. If you cannot give that part of your ego, then you are wasting your time. IV is an all voluntary organization, please do not expect customer service here. Everyone is expected to act in a mature manner and do their share by participating in the advocacy effort. Again, you are doing it for yourself, not for IV.

We all need to stick together and give up this obsession of creating new groups and stop this hallucination that you will influence the policy as a small group, because you won't. There is only one way to get this thing done, by sticking together. We have been doing this for around 10 years, have seen it all, many break-away groups have been formed in these 10 years, but all those groups perished, but not before hurting our (and their) effort.

Every time something is happening on the ground or about to happen after years of our work, some jerk will start a breakaway group of handful of people telling everyone that IV is not working for us, seriously?? We have seen people form other websites but that is as far as they will go, there was this group who started their website in 2007 and perished after 3 months. Then there was another group of EB-3 India folks who blamed IV for backlogs and created their webpage in 2010, they disappeared. Then in 2012 when H.R.3012 was making progress, 10-12 jerks of ROW started group called Skilled Immigration to oppose H.R.3012. Here is their website - http://skilledimmigrants.us

Creating a new google group or yahoo group or creating a webpage and have handful of people join is easy and a whole lot of waste of everyone's time, including those handful of people who unsuspectingly join such groups. But registering an organization, running a non-profit, working on this issue daily in Washington and advocating for fixes for years, and building name recognition for our fixes - that is where it counts. For example - just the name of the fix - 'per country limits', or 'EAD for I-140' - is sufficient to describe the issue to most immigration policy makers in Washington.

There are large organizations of immigration lawyers who go to Congress pretending representing immigrants, but they are most interested in maximizing the profits of their member (i.e. immigration lawyers). Then there are many trade groups of companies who are working overtime to trap immigrant employees. Is there anyone in their right mind think that creating a website and sending a few tweets/emails is all that it takes to do the advocacy? Who in the right mind think that tweeting messages, of FB likes or emails will counter the lobbying machinery of lawyers and companies, whose basic business model is based on entrapping employees in the same job. Is there anyone who thinks that creating a web page or online petition is sufficient to counter the war/lobbying machinery of companies and lawyers?

And if anyone wants to form another group, we will highly encourage you to start a real organization, register a non-profit and take this issue all the way, and let us know how we can support you in your initiative. We will be happier to see more groups advocate for our fixes. We will welcome that approach. But then what is the point of doing a half-hearted effort by creating a webpage and chip of a few people and send out contradictory damaging messages to policy-makers hurting years' worth of work. Such actions will not do anything other than weakening the overall effort. No matter who you are, we don't think you want to hurt the overall effort.

Administrator2
03-20-2015, 07:27 PM
Dear Admin,

I am having difficulty to understand the purpose of yesterday's teleconference. Today is the due date that they submit recommendations to the WH. DO USCIS have their proposed rules ready? If the rules are ready, what's the point asking for feedback at the last minute? If not, then what have they been doing during the past 120 days?

Also I am keen to know if the rulemaking process consists (1) Economical Analysis Rule Making (2) Notice n Comments Period (3) Taking Comments feedback n-Number of times, responding to comments (4) Write a Final Rule (5) Agency Clearance, (6) Budgeting (7) 90-days to review rules. Then which step are we standing now? Many says we are at step3, but for us to be at step3, there has to be the proposed rule which we don't see it anywhere.

Many Thanks

Your list is more or less covers most of the steps broadly. But these steps are not always sequential, some of the activity goes on in parallel for example budgeting planning and resource allocation/numbers are factor in decision making though out the process.

Yesterday's call was one of the check box for step (3). Prior to this initiative, USCIS had requested for comments/RFI for which the deadline was January 29, 2015. IV had submitted comprehensive list of comments:
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=USCIS-2014-0014-1349

Our reading of yesterday's call was an attempt to check the box with another attempt for #3 (so no one can question tomorrow). That is why in-between they asked for opinion of the employers so they could show tomorrow that they invited open dialogue from everyone.

Also, USCIS had already evaluated the comments to RFI and sent the recommendations to WH. In response to one of the question, USCIS acknowledged "completing the analysis of the RFI responses and already making recommendations to WH". Now President has to decide which of the recommended fixes he wants to do. After WH signs off, DHS will do to the next step of doing the final regulations.

But overall this call was not as much relevant but merely to check the box. It did not yield anything anything other than creating a record that a call did happen.

If there is something significant (which is mostly negative) that might come up from this call that USCIS may decide to add to their existing recommendations to the WH. That is why if every immigrant will ask "wanting" (rather "begging") to wait for 180 more days before changing employer, which is what this guy seems to be doing, then USCIS could add that to the recommendation that employees are agreeing with Immigration lawyers and employers to not get EAD immediately upon the approval of I-140. That is the risk here. Hope this clarifies.

sengs
03-20-2015, 08:21 PM
Your list is more or less covers most of the steps broadly. But these steps are not always sequential, some of the activity goes on in parallel for example budgeting planning and resource allocation/numbers are factor in decision making though out the process.

Yesterday's call was one of the check box for step (3). Prior to this initiative, USCIS had requested for comments/RFI for which the deadline was January 29, 2015. IV had submitted comprehensive list of comments:
Regulations.gov (http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=USCIS-2014-0014-1349)

Our reading of yesterday's call was an attempt to check the box with another attempt for #3 (so no one can question tomorrow). That is why in-between they asked for opinion of the employers so they could show tomorrow that they invited open dialogue from everyone.

Also, USCIS had already evaluated the comments to RFI and sent the recommendations to WH. In response to one of the question, USCIS acknowledged "completing the analysis of the RFI responses and already making recommendations to WH". Now President has to decide which of the recommended fixes he wants to do. After WH signs off, DHS will do to the next step of doing the final regulations.

If there is something significant that might come up from this call that USCIS may decide to add to their existing recommendations to the WH. That is why if every immigrant will ask "wanting" rather "begging" to wait for 180 more days before changing employer, which is what this guy seems to be doing, then USCIS could add that to the recommendation that employees are agreeing with Immigration lawyers and employers to not get EAD immediately upon the approval of I-140. That is the risk here. Hope this clarifies.

Interesting to know how the process works. Did DOS, AG and other departments also submit their respective recommendations? or the recommendations were collectively submitted by USCIS/DHS?

hil3182
03-20-2015, 08:32 PM
One of the biggest concerns I had about the call is there was no mention of filing for AoS while the priority date was not current.

People seem to think that I-140 EAD is the same as filing AoS when PD is not current.

But the fact is there is a significant difference between filing EAD + AP after I140 and filing AOS. First, you have already filed for AOS and you and family members are now only waiting for allocation of Visa number.
By filling AOS, your child's status is protected and will not age-out.
You and your family will get Alien #, which is required at many Universities if you desire to seek in-state fee, then there is the process question where future President's can revoke this Admin rule and if you have not filed for AOS then what will be your status then. But if you have filed for AOS, even if there is a future rule change, no on can undo your filing AOS

hil3182
03-20-2015, 09:57 PM
Loved the fact that ImmigrationVoice.org - Home (http://skilledimmigrants.us) redirects to immigrationvoice.org

Looks like you bought out the domain after they became defunct

Administrator2
03-20-2015, 11:18 PM
Loved the fact that ImmigrationVoice.org - Home (http://skilledimmigrants.us) redirects to immigrationvoice.org

Looks like you bought out the domain after they became defunct

Yes, that was the point we were trying to make. In last 10 years, there have been at least 8 -10 different attempts by different groups in different times. These knuckleheads thought that getting things done in Congress and Administration is easy.

These folks started with all sorts of conspiracy theories blaming IV for "creating" backlogs, saying that IV did not fix backlogs within few months, some of these groups even created their goal of doing a bill within 3 months. But none of these groups exist. The all perished. Some created their blog, some just FB page, and some even tried to bring up their website. And when they disappear, we get their URL and point them to IV. Oh BTW, here is another one - http://voiceofimmigrants.org :-)

But back then, all these fringe groups used divisive methods. Rather than working together, they attacked everything that we did, mostly blamed us for the backlogs. They attacked us mostly out of their ignorance rather than having knowledge of the issue. They spent a lot more time to hurt the overall agenda and were not focused on helping with the cause. They could not go past website, FB page or a blog, but were mostly responsible for random misfired messages, which mostly hurt the overall agenda at the time. When they don't know what is happening on the ground and then don't want to work with those who know what is happening, then obviously the messaging of such ground will be misdirected.

And this new fringe groups seems no different. They started off attacking IV and claiming that their 2 meetings with OMB resulted in EAD for H-4 admin fix :-) OMB doesn't make or decide policy. WH and DHS does. Meeting with OMB is like wasting your time at

Rather than working together, they start off by attacking the ground work we have laid for years. Just as a case in point - they are asking everyone to write to USCIS to make sure that everyone has to wait for 180 days before getting EADs. We had already negotiated that there will be no waits in getting EADs after I-140.

These Admin fixes are in the works for many years now. NOTHING happens in 2, 10 or 50 meetings. You need to come to DC and see it first hand if you want to learn how the system works. For everyone who comes for Advocacy event knows this first hand. So for any one to claim that 2 meetings with unrelated agency or FB likes or tweeting is creating Admin fixes, then why does companies have hundreds of millions of lobbying budget? Why don't they just work on getting tweets and FB likes?

Be wary of loose cannons, because when they misfire it hurts a lot of unsuspecting good people.

Viskon
03-21-2015, 08:32 AM
Is there expected to be a public announcement of what fixes have been accepted by the WH?

Administrator2
03-21-2015, 10:24 AM
Is there expected to be a public announcement of what fixes have been accepted by the WH?

Yes, when The President makes his decision then we will all know because that will be followed by publishing of the regulations. There is no way you can miss the news about the fixes after it is announced by DHS or WH.

If you are asking that anyone can provide live blog of what WH is doing, then please don't hold your breath over it. No one knows when the President will make his decision. But even if anyone did, it will not be fair to announce it publicly. There are certain protocols that one needs to respect. Any decision by the President must always be first announced by the WH/DHS/Administration . Even if someone would entrust us with the information, we will not share it publicly because we need to be respectful of the protocol. Trust is a 2-way street and if we break the trust it will diminish our ability to be effective.

dhruva12
03-23-2015, 09:52 AM
Dear Admin...

Do you know whether USCIS submitted its reccomendations to WH, if yes, why is it not public?


What in your opinion are the chances of I-140 EAD rule making progress happening in the near term? Is there anything as a community which we can do to keep the heat on?

I understand your position and not having new information every day about these things, but I am assuming you might have an opinion which is well informed than me :-)

braveone
03-23-2015, 09:56 AM
Is there anything you want us to do in response to a horrible USCIS call last week?

Administrator2
03-23-2015, 10:23 AM
Dear Admin...

Do you know whether USCIS submitted its reccomendations to WH, if yes, why is it not public?


What in your opinion are the chances of I-140 EAD rule making progress happening in the near term? Is there anything as a community which we can do to keep the heat on?

I understand your position and not having new information every day about these things, but I am assuming you might have an opinion which is well informed than me :-)


Hope you understand that inter-agency communication of U.S. government is not a matter of public disclosure. To run government business USCIS/DHS/WH may be communicating on daily basis. Government communications are not expected to posted on any dashboard so everyone knows of every detail.

The call last week was a "Public engagement" call. It was announced on the public call by USCIS that they have already submitted the recommendations to WH. Since this information is in public arena, we can also share with you safely that USCIS already submitted their recommendations from the RFI responses to the the WH.

For anyone who is interested in this matter it should be obvious that these fixes are happening:
1.) EAD and AP for I-140
2.) Filing Adjustment of Status when the priority date is not current in Visa Bulletin

These are separate fixes and we already shared this months in advance. Perhaps you did not see it back then. Nevertheless, these ideas have been discussed for many months/years. And parachuting in the last minute in sending emails/messages to anyone in the last minute will not change anything. So please save yourself and our cause from having to send meaningless email to USCIS/anyone else saying "please do EAD for I-140". Such messages are significantly detrimental to our cause.

The reason being - details of the fix matter a lot. And that is why it is important to respond adequately with all the details based on the intent of the question. We are working on a comprehensive response that everyone can use to send to USCIS.

EAD and AP for approved I-140 is only one fix. But more significant fix is the ability to file AOS when priority date is not current on Visa Bulletin system. DO NOT be distracted by the diversion of EAD for I-140. This fix is already happening, and again, we shared that months back. And though this fix is very important for us but also equally important is the fix to file AOS when visa number is not available. DO NOT lose the big picture and get dragged into bumper sticker slogan of "EAD for I-140". Try See the world that is beyond this fix.

USCIS call and these questions are not as much relevant. But we see that some douchebag is repeatedly posting a template response asking everyone to send it to USCIS. Again, we request everyone NOT to undo the work from many years by sending these messages that are going to hurt us. If you want to have sense of having done your share and if you want to send something to USCIS then we are working on a comprehensive response that you can also send to USCIS. But please DO NOT send any wrong or incomplete message to USCIS because even if your message cannot help, it can surely hurt your cause.

Administrator2
03-23-2015, 10:25 AM
Is there anything you want us to do in response to a horrible USCIS call last week?

As noted above, IV is preparing a response and we will post it for everyone to use that comprehensive template for sending it to USCIS. Please DO NOT send just any message posted by some jerk who is not helping the cause.

sengs
03-23-2015, 10:42 AM
Hope you understand that inter-agency communication of U.S. government is not a matter of public disclosure. To run government business USCIS/DHS/WH may be communicating on daily basis. Government communications are not expected to posted on any dashboard so everyone knows of every detail.

The call last week was a "Public engagement" call. It was announced on the public call by USCIS that they have already submitted the recommendations to WH. Since this information is in public arena, we can also share with you safely that USCIS already submitted their recommendations from the RFI responses to the the WH.

For anyone who is interested in this matter it should be obvious that these fixes are happening:
1.) EAD and AP for I-140
2.) Filing Adjustment of Status when the priority date is not current in Visa Bulletin

These are separate fixes and we already shared this months in advance. Perhaps you did not see it back then. Nevertheless, these ideas have been discussed for many months/years. And parachuting in the last minute in sending emails/messages to anyone in the last minute will not change anything. So please save yourself and our cause from having to send meaningless email to USCIS/anyone else saying "please do EAD for I-140". Such messages are significantly detrimental to our cause.

The reason being - details of the fix matter a lot. And that is why it is important to respond adequately with all the details based on the intent of the question. We are working on a comprehensive response that everyone can use to send to USCIS.

EAD and AP for approved I-140 is only one fix. But more significant fix is the ability to file AOS when priority date is not current on Visa Bulletin system. DO NOT be distracted by the diversion of EAD for I-140. This fix is already happening, and again, we shared that months back. And though this fix is very important for us but also equally important is the fix to file AOS when visa number is not available. DO NOT lose the big picture and get dragged into bumper sticker slogan of "EAD for I-140". Try See the world that is beyond this fix.

USCIS call and these questions are not as much relevant. But we see that some douchebag is repeatedly posting a template response asking everyone to send it to USCIS. Again, we request everyone NOT to undo the work from many years by sending these messages that are going to hurt us. If you want to have sense of having done your share and if you want to send something to USCIS then we are working on a comprehensive response that you can also send to USCIS. But please DO NOT send any wrong or incomplete message to USCIS because even if your message cannot help, it can surely hurt your cause.

If USCIS has already send its recommendations to the WH, and considering the 120 days timeframe set by the president is over, why are we freaking out on the telephone call and sending emails to the USCIS? I am still not understanding this much ado about nothing.

thokkalohdi
03-23-2015, 11:45 AM
If USCIS has already send its recommendations to the WH, and considering the 120 days timeframe set by the president is over, why are we freaking out on the telephone call and sending emails to the USCIS? I am still not understanding this much ado about nothing.

Nobody said those are final recommendations... because only 2 parties (WH and USCIS) knows what they are... recommendations can change with public/business mood.

sengs
03-23-2015, 12:58 PM
Nobody said those are final recommendations... because only 2 parties (WH and USCIS) knows what they are... recommendations can change with public/business mood.

True. Until the final rule is published, anything is possible.