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aswami
07-04-2013, 05:34 PM
Please let us know what is the strategy of IV and other pro Immigration Reform groups to get this passed in the US House of Representatives. Please also let us know how we can help with this strategy.

Speaker Boehner has said that he will not bring a bill to vote in the House unless it has the support of a majority of the Republicans. Most of the House Republicans will not support a bill which has the path to citizenship for undocumented people. Almost no Democrat, including President Obama, will support a bill that does not have a path to citizenship. Given this deadlock, the only option to bring the bill for vote in the House seems to be a discharge petition. The chances of Speaker Boehner voluntarily bringing this bill for vote in the House is slim to none. If the bill is not passed in the house before the summer recess in August, this bill is doomed for many years to come. When Congressmen return from the summer recess, their minds will already be on elections coming up next year. They will not work on immigration reform. So, we HAVE to get this passed now.

More about this, along with full reasoning here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uBwCmXnlt2IVFt8EGJMNfqFYmDllPkXNRx3AQrQ39F4/edit#

Given this background, what strategy are IV and other pro Immigration Reform groups adopting to ensure that a discharge petition happens in the House? How can we help with this strategy?

scrooge2011
07-05-2013, 12:56 PM
You forgot to mention the source @Ashutrip, it is considered plagiarism :)

aswami
07-05-2013, 01:17 PM
Chances of Disharge petition are very bleak.
House senate compromise is the only way out.
Which looks difficult in 15 business days of window.
Politics as always.
Having said that I am sure (actually hoping) IV are doing some behind the scene lobbying.
Insallah!

Whatever compromise that the House and Senate conference comes up with, does not become law immediately. After the conference, the compromise bill needs to be voted on by both the Senate and the House. Boehner has clearly said that he won't bring even the compromise bill to the House for voting unless a majority of the Republicans support it. In this context, what I mentioned in my original post remains true: "Most of the House Republicans will not support a bill which has the path to citizenship for undocumented people. Almost no Democrat, including President Obama, will support a bill that does not have a path to citizenship."

What exactly would be the nature of the compromise between House and Senate? If it includes the path to citizenship, it's not going anywhere with the House Republicans. If it does not include the path to citizenship, it's not going anywhere with the Democrats. Sorry, but the House-Senate compromise is a mirage. It's not happening. It's just a waste of time to put any effort into it.

If you are still not convinced, consider the fact that the so-called gang within the House has been working on a bill for a really really long time now, and they still don't have a bill to show. How can such an unproductive group be expected to work productively with an external group from the Senate?

aswami
07-05-2013, 01:30 PM
Happy the Fourth of July, readers! In an apparent attempt to discourage support of the CIR, practically and nationally unknown or not well recognized online bloggers and media are filling the cyberspace with their spinning that because of the conservative House, the bill will fail and die. Readers should not be misguided by such spinners. It is a truth that there are some CIR opponents among Republicans in the House, but readers should understand that politics are controlled by "reality" and "calculation" of the impact of their acts on the future of the parties. It is the core machine of a party that eventually determines the party's course of action and not a few spinners in the media. Readers may agree with this reporter that this core machine of the Republican Party is at this time running hard behind the scene to determine their course of actions based on their assessment of impact of their decision on the future of the party. They are not living in a world of dream or fantasy. They know 100% better than the readers and the people out there when it comes to the assessment of political reality.
Readers should ignore what they read in the cyber media which is spinned by a number of practically unknown media at the national level. Trust that at the end of the day, the Congress will pass a CIR legislation this year in one shape or another. They cannot, repeat, cannot afford opposing CIR legislation this year. Otherwise, they will have to pay a hefty and painful political price coming years.

I hope you are right. But I don't have confidence that it's all just a spin. We have seen direct quotes from from leaders like Boehner and Goodlatte, even pro-immigration guys like Paul Ryan and down to lower tier individual representatives. These direct quotes essentially say the following things:

1. They won't just take up the Senate bill.

2. They won't do a comprehensive immigration bill. They want to do it piece-meal.

3. A lot of them (although not the leaders) have also said that they don't support a path to citizenship for undocumented people.

The Google doc I linked (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uBwCmXnlt2IVFt8EGJMNfqFYmDllPkXNRx3AQrQ39F4/edit#) in the original post says why immigration reform won't happen if it's not comprehensive and if it's not the Senate's version of the CIR bill:

Why Comprehensive Immigration Reform is the only option and not a piece-meal approach?

House Republicans are making a lot of noise about the piece-meal approach, about passing many smaller laws that tackle various aspects of immigration. The fact is that a piece-meal approach will never work. Every single immigration issue has many supporters and many opponents. So, no single immigration issue can be fixed in isolation. It's simply not practical. The only practical solution is to have a bill in which there is something for everybody. This way, in order for a Senator or a House Representative to get something he or she wants, they have to compromise for something someone else wants. This is precisely why the Senate came up with a Comprehensive Immigration Reform bill. This is also precisely why CIR passed in the Senate. The House Republicans are well aware of this fact. So, all that noise they are making about a piece-meal approach is mostly drama to waste time, to show that they are doing something about immigration, and not summarily sinking the whole deal. They may be hoping that while they are wasting time on the many unsuccessful piece-meal bills, the comprehensive approach will simply sink by the passage of time.

Why there will never be a House CIR and the Senate's CIR including the path to citizenship is the only option?

There is a gang of House Representatives who have been working on a House version of the CIR for a long time. They have not succeeded yet. This is because the Democrats and the Republicans in the House simply cannot work together. It is impossible for them to produce anything that both sides find acceptable. The biggest contention between the two sides is the path to citizenship for the undocumented people. To put it simply, a majority of the House Republicans will not support any bill that includes a path to citizenship. And, a majority or all of the Democrats in both the House and the Senate, as well as President Obama will simply not support any bill that does not include a path to citizenship. So, we have a deadlock here that simply can't produce a successful House CIR. On the other hand, the Senate CIR, for all its flaws, has a lot of hardwork put into it to ensure that it has something important for all groups. I am not talking about just Democrats and Republicans. I am also talking all the groups outside the US government, whose support and compromise is important for success of a bill. The House or any other group in the country cannot come up with a comprehensive immigration reform bill that can get more support from Democrats and Republicans than the current Senate CIR. So, the only option that is left is the Senate CIR.


Bottomline: We don't have too many options other than the Senate CIR bill being voted on in the House after a discharge petition. Everything else is just time wasting tactics by the House Republicans.

GCkiyaGanja
07-05-2013, 07:20 PM
Disharge petiion not happening
compromise not happening
IV is silent
then what is happening????

Long weekend man!! there will be some update from IV hopefully? Atleast action item to hoga hee.

BTW ..Virat kohli's innings was a gem today :)

soorya
07-08-2013, 10:11 AM
Please let us know what is the strategy of IV and other pro Immigration Reform groups to get this passed in the US House of Representatives. Please also let us know how we can help with this strategy.

Speaker Boehner has said that he will not bring a bill to vote in the House unless it has the support of a majority of the Republicans. Most of the House Republicans will not support a bill which has the path to citizenship for undocumented people. Almost no Democrat, including President Obama, will support a bill that does not have a path to citizenship. Given this deadlock, the only option to bring the bill for vote in the House seems to be a discharge petition. The chances of Speaker Boehner voluntarily bringing this bill for vote in the House is slim to none. If the bill is not passed in the house before the summer recess in August, this bill is doomed for many years to come. When Congressmen return from the summer recess, their minds will already be on elections coming up next year. They will not work on immigration reform. So, we HAVE to get this passed now.

More about this, along with full reasoning here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uBwCmXnlt2IVFt8EGJMNfqFYmDllPkXNRx3AQrQ39F4/edit#

Given this background, what strategy are IV and other pro Immigration Reform groups adopting to ensure that a discharge petition happens in the House? How can we help with this strategy?

Are you planning to submit a thesis on Immigration reform? Organizational Strategy is not something to be discussed in a public forum-rather it is something which needs to be worked out with lawmakers. Collecting info. for devising a strategy (or a counter strategy) for these kind of bills which cater diverse ideologies is a herculean task. So, my bro- there are NO free lunches here. Spend some money and become a donor-if you really want to get some insider info. for whatever purpose you want to use it for-<>!!!:)

aswami
07-08-2013, 04:21 PM
Are you planning to submit a thesis on Immigration reform? Organizational Strategy is not something to be discussed in a public forum-rather it is something which needs to be worked out with lawmakers. Collecting info. for devising a strategy (or a counter strategy) for these kind of bills which cater diverse ideologies is a herculean task. So, my bro- there are NO free lunches here. Spend some money and become a donor-if you really want to get some insider info. for whatever purpose you want to use it for-<>!!!:)

Did you miss the first two lines and the last two lines of my original post? Let me repeat them here:

Please let us know what is the strategy of IV and other pro Immigration Reform groups to get this passed in the US House of Representatives. Please also let us know how we can help with this strategy.
.
.
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Given this background, what strategy are IV and other pro Immigration Reform groups adopting to ensure that a discharge petition happens in the House? How can we help with this strategy?


So, I am asking how we can help. I am not writing a thesis, nor trying to devise a strategy or a counter strategy, nor being a smart ass. I am new to IV and did not know donating money is the only way to get information and provide help. Are you telling me that is the case? I have also written to info at immigrationvoice dot org and to my state IV chapter offering help. Yet to get any concrete replies to my emails.

dhruvP
07-09-2013, 02:34 PM
In a letter to Boehner, American Action Forum President Douglas Holtz-Eakin, Americans for Tax Reform President Grover Norquist, and American Conservative Union Chairman Al Cardenas said their groups support many of the key elements in the immigration reform bill recently passed by the Senate, including the pathway to citizenship.
But the group leaders told Boehner the House should take up the issue to ensure that a final version of the law adheres more closely to conservative principles.
“The U.S. Senate passed a bill last week that we consider progress,” the letter reads in part.
“But members of the House will correctly pursue their own legislation. This will ensure that any final product has considerable conservative input, and that certain aspects of the Senate bill are markedly improved. Whether a comprehensive bill or a piecemeal approach, we support an immigration reform package that reflects the economic contributions that immigrants make to our country.“


Conservative groups urge Boehner to act on immigration reform in the House - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com (http://thehill.com/homenews/house/309827-conservative-groups-urge-boehner-to-act-on-immigration-reform-)

aswami
07-09-2013, 05:11 PM
As much I m trying to remian positive

After Reading all negative reactions from GOPers I think Uncle Boehner may succeed in sinking the bill.

The news coming from the GOP side does not give much hope at all. It's all negative and pessimistic. The Senate bill itself is a delicate compromise. Anything the GOP will try to do in pulling the Senate Bill to the right will make the bill unacceptable and setup for failure. The worst part is that the GOP members don't even seem to want to do anything, not even pull the Senate bill to the right. They are trying to find every excuse to criticize immigration reform in general and the Senate bill in particular, and simply avoid taking any action on this issue. They are trying to come up with delay tactics. They are not trying to give bad results. They are trying to give no results.

My original post in this thread was correct. It is reinforced even more now, a few days later. If immigration reform has to pass now, discharge petition is the only option. The GOP as a whole will not do anything productive. Anyone who thinks the GOP will do anything that will result in even a bad bill is living a pipe dream.

airbusfan
07-10-2013, 05:51 PM
The news coming from the GOP side does not give much hope at all. It's all negative and pessimistic. The Senate bill itself is a delicate compromise. Anything the GOP will try to do in pulling the Senate Bill to the right will make the bill unacceptable and setup for failure. The worst part is that the GOP members don't even seem to want to do anything, not even pull the Senate bill to the right. They are trying to find every excuse to criticize immigration reform in general and the Senate bill in particular, and simply avoid taking any action on this issue. They are trying to come up with delay tactics. They are not trying to give bad results. They are trying to give no results.

My original post in this thread was correct. It is reinforced even more now, a few days later. If immigration reform has to pass now, discharge petition is the only option. The GOP as a whole will not do anything productive. Anyone who thinks the GOP will do anything that will result in even a bad bill is living a pipe dream.

Joint Statement By House GOP Leaders On Immigration Reform - GOP.gov (http://www.gop.gov/press-release/13/07/10/joint-statement-by-house-gop)
Quite a strong statement here by the GOP leadership of basically
1) Not taking up senate version of the bill
2) Going for a piecemeal approach
3) No mention of path to citizenship - which basically alienates the Dems

bugs2007
07-11-2013, 04:43 PM
Hi,

I just saw this on Oh Law Firm webpage (The Oh Law Firm (http://www.immigration-law.com/))
"House Republicans to Stay w/Piecemeal Reform"

Didn't the president say that he would only sign a comprehensive form & not a piecemeal?
Or was the only mandatory aspect to include the path to citizenship for the currently undocumented people & a piecemeal approach was fine?

Thanks.

airbusfan
07-11-2013, 04:49 PM
Hi,

I just saw this on Oh Law Firm webpage (The Oh Law Firm (http://www.immigration-law.com/))
"House Republicans to Stay w/Piecemeal Reform"

Didn't the president say that he would only sign a comprehensive form & not a piecemeal?
Or was the only mandatory aspect to include the path to citizenship for the currently undocumented people & a piecemeal approach was fine?

Thanks.
Nothing is mandatory in politics. President can only sign the bill into law or veto it, he can influence it a little but ultimately its upto the congress to pass the bills and send it to the president to sign.

bugs2007
07-11-2013, 05:00 PM
Great - thank you!

So many of us have been waiting for so long, I just wanted to make sure :)