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View Full Version : LIVE: Senate hearing on Immigration Reform bill of 2013


Administrator2
04-22-2013, 10:45 AM
Here are links to the Senate hearing S.744

Integrated Senate Video Player (http://www.senate.gov/isvp/?comm=judiciary&type=live&filename=judiciary042213)
Live Video - C-SPAN | C-SPAN (http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/)
Senate immigration bill hearing - Video on NBCNews.com (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/51619641/)


Here is the list of Witnesses for this hearing
View a Hearing or Meeting (http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=8cbd56caad16c74c7ff47a4bf3bfabdf)

CKR
04-22-2013, 11:03 AM
Here are links to the Senate hearing S.744

Integrated Senate Video Player (http://www.senate.gov/isvp/?comm=judiciary&type=live&filename=judiciary042213)
Live Video - C-SPAN | C-SPAN (http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/)
Senate immigration bill hearing - Video on NBCNews.com (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/51619641/)


Here is the list of Witnesses for this hearing
View a Hearing or Meeting (http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=8cbd56caad16c74c7ff47a4bf3bfabdf)

One line from Senator SCHMUER summarizes the situation...........

"None of you Groups got all of what you want .........but the bill is better than the present Status Quo".

I personally think this bill is a great way to start............much better than the present situation...............

sup_eb2_2009
04-22-2013, 11:52 AM
Whenever the house version is introduced, presumably they will go through the similar debate process in House. If both Senate and House version are approved, how do they make one bill out of two ? Aren't they 2 separate bills? Does that mean another group will have to come with a merged version and go through another round of debates?

Flyingcrow
04-22-2013, 11:54 AM
Hearing with Panel 3, I guess would be very interesting with Mark Krikorian on it.

desimallu
04-22-2013, 12:07 PM
Whenever the house version is introduced, presumably they will go through the similar debate process in House. If both Senate and House version are approved, how do they make one bill out of two ? Aren't they 2 separate bills? Does that mean another group will have to come with a merged version and go through another round of debates?

Correct.The house chairman Boblatte has already said,Immigration is going to be a REGULAR Order,Which means senate passes its own bill,then house commitee brings up another bill and then they essentially negotiate tweaking it before a final agreement is reached.So basically the final law,may have very few points from this bill,Plus they get more time to kill the bill.This is what they did in 2007.More time it takes,bill gets killed,Thats what Sen Sessions and Grassely wants and thats how they did it in 2007.:(

Suva
04-22-2013, 12:09 PM
I see Anti-H1B Ron Hira in the list. Why is IV not invited?

avinashchand
04-22-2013, 12:42 PM
I was just watching this hearing. Hira Ron is opposing this bill from head to toe.According to him this bill is no good except misuse. Why this guy is so biased...he seems to be Indian/Asian origin and immigrant at some point in past. Is he hating any improvement just because he doesn't need this and doesn't like others coming out of their difficulties & suffering?:confused:

pd052011
04-22-2013, 12:57 PM
Why is Mr. Neeraj Gupta generalizing his opinion of a few H1Bs to the entire H1B population? Also, not all firms are in the managed services space or product development space. There are some firms in specialized fields that need talent from wherever not just India.

I am confused why such "experts" are getting a national platform with such narrow minded or a single country focused views.

DSLStart
04-22-2013, 01:08 PM
Just now Ron Hira made Sen. Jeff Session believe that increasing H1Bs is importing more "low skilled" workers when there is already high unemployment rate! :eek:

Desertfox
04-22-2013, 01:21 PM
Grassley, Schumer trade fireworks on immigration - Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/pat-leahy-boston-marathon-bombings-immigration-90418.html) :D

waitingnwaiting
04-22-2013, 03:04 PM
Current H-1B visa system incredibly disruptive: Microsoft | NDTV.com (http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/current-h-1b-visa-system-incredibly-disruptive-microsoft-357577)

gk_2000
04-22-2013, 04:32 PM
Just now Ron Hira made Sen. Jeff Session believe that increasing H1Bs is importing more "low skilled" workers when there is already high unemployment rate! :eek:

THAT man doesn't need any convincing.

gvenkat
04-22-2013, 11:48 PM
THAT man doesn't need any convincing.

I cannot believe two Indians testified against this bill. Of course anytime H1B comes in to the picture any bill will be viewed skeptically.. Still It's just depressing to note that two immigrants who took the path that every other person rotting in this mess is aspiring to take went against the bill. Just depressing. :)

madhu345
04-23-2013, 08:18 AM
roll up the sleeves and fight

bond4u
04-23-2013, 09:34 AM
I cannot believe two Indians testified against this bill. Of course anytime H1B comes in to the picture any bill will be viewed skeptically.. Still It's just depressing to note that two immigrants who took the path that every other person rotting in this mess is aspiring to take went against the bill. Just depressing. :)

I even more surprised by Neeraj Gupta who used H1b himself painted everyone else as low skill worker. His target was TCS, Infosys and Wipro so his Start up do not face competition from them. Most disheartening to see that he targeted Indian H1b visa holder in whole testimony.
This is difference between US where they celebrate each other success and other side we envy or don't want other to succeed thats why we see Eb2 vs Eb3 etc.

pd052011
04-23-2013, 09:43 AM
I even more surprised by Neeraj Gupta who used H1b himself painted everyone else as low skill worker. His target was TCS, Infosys and Wipro so his Start up do not face competition from them. Most disheartening to see that he targeted Indian H1b visa holder in whole testimony.
This is difference between US where they celebrate each other success and other side we envy or don't want other to succeed thats why we see Eb2 vs Eb3 etc.

That was really sad. Mr. Gupta needs to see H1Bs that are working in highly specialized fields and he will know how that is useful. Also, if his beef is with TCS/Wipro etc, he can easily take it up with Chamber of Commerce and the Trade Commission for Unfair Competition issues. Like Mr. Smith from Microsoft said, use the proper channels to address the business models of these firms.

Well it is a known truth (albeit hardly ever acknowledged) that we do suffer from crabs in a basket tendency and we typically look down upon our own especially in the immigrant community. I am glad there are platforms like IV where issues are highlighted and efforts are made to address them.

waitingnwaiting
04-23-2013, 10:17 AM
That was really sad. Mr. Gupta needs to see H1Bs that are working in highly specialized fields and he will know how that is useful. Also, if his beef is with TCS/Wipro etc, he can easily take it up with Chamber of Commerce and the Trade Commission for Unfair Competition issues. Like Mr. Smith from Microsoft said, use the proper channels to address the business models of these firms.

Well it is a known truth (albeit hardly ever acknowledged) that we do suffer from crabs in a basket tendency and we typically look down upon our own especially in the immigrant community. I am glad there are platforms like IV where issues are highlighted and efforts are made to address them.

Can we say for sure that these big and small consulting companies:

1) Pay Market rate salaries.
2) Make honest efforts to hire Americans first
3) Do not charge employees for immigration fees
4) Most backlog from India is not because of many Indians from these companies.
5) Most employees from these companies are not undergraduates or doing jobs that only require an undergraduate degree
6) Reports of exploitation on forums, lawsuits and DOL are not mostly from these companies
7) These companies are not causing outsourcing by 'shadowing' American employees at work and then taking business back to India.
8) They do not file most H1Bs of H4 visa holders who are not even engineers but B.Com and B.A. for positions like QA testers.
9) The reports of benching and not paying are not from these companies.
10) Majority of substituted labors are not from these companies
11) The prevailing wage is filed in one state that has lower salary but the employee is not sent to a site that has a higher wage.
12) Most cases of salary not given after the employer has left the company, unreasonable contracts holding the employee's freedom are not from these companies.
13) These companies are at the cutting edge of innovation and are producing products that are game changers for the industry.


Can anyone prove that any of the dirty 13 points above are incorrect. I will take back my support to the demand of cleaning up immigration system in the bigger interest of this nation.

keyurpatel80
04-23-2013, 10:47 AM
These two idiots Ron Hira and Neeraj illustrate that if H1B is working at Google and Microsoft are only high skilled H1b, rest are low skilled jobs which any american can do it.

I can not believe myself senate has invited people like these anti-immigration duos.

imh1b
04-23-2013, 11:00 AM
These two idiots Ron Hira and Neeraj illustrate that if H1B is working at Google and Microsoft are only high skilled H1b, rest are low skilled jobs which any american can do it.

I can not believe myself senate has invited people like these anti-immigration duos.

They are respectable people. None of us have reached their level or higher in our profession. One is a professor of a reputed University and another one is a CEO of a big company. Even if we disagree we should not be cursing them. It only belittle us more. If we disagree, should we not contact them and talk to them? Are there any IV members from that University? or IV members who work for that company? They can go and discuss and give better suggestions.

keyurpatel80
04-23-2013, 11:03 AM
They are respectable people. None of us have reached their level or higher in our profession. One is a professor of a reputed University and another one is a CEO of a big company. Even if we disagree we should not be cursing them. It only belittle us more. If we disagree, should we not contact them and talk to them? Are there any IV members from that University? or IV members who work for that company? They can go and discuss and give better suggestions.

I do agree. We have to reach out to them and see how we can negotiate our terms and provisions. But I certainly disagree with them "Except Microsoft and Google H-1Bs, rest are low skilled" highly disappointing.

imh1b
04-23-2013, 11:05 AM
We should have point by point rebuttal of criticism of H1B program by the anti-immigrant views expressed by Prof. Ron Hira and Neeraj Gupta. If some points are correct we should agree and offer suggestions to fix it. If we win these people to our side, we can get support for greencard effort. H1B is a problem visa because it is a restricted visa unlike a greencard. Greencard is a solution to all problems of H1B.

keyurpatel80
04-23-2013, 11:10 AM
We should have point by point rebuttal of criticism of H1B program by the anti-immigrant views expressed by Prof. Ron Hira and Neeraj Gupta. If some points are correct we should agree and offer suggestions to fix it. If we win these people to our side, we can get support for greencard effort. H1B is a problem visa because it is a restricted visa unlike a greencard. Greencard is a solution to all problems of H1B.

any idea when they will discuss about backlog of employment based visa ? I did not see they discuss about this.

pd052011
04-23-2013, 11:19 AM
These two idiots Ron Hira and Neeraj illustrate that if H1B is working at Google and Microsoft are only high skilled H1b, rest are low skilled jobs which any american can do it.

I can not believe myself senate has invited people like these anti-immigration duos.

They are not idiots. They have their facts in place. This system is clearly broken. What they stated in the testimony was not incorrect. Remember it is a Senate testimony. You cannot make random claims without corroborating such claims with facts and figures. They would not have been invited if they were not credible. It is a true testimony of this nation's democracy. Pro and Anti immigration views were heard yesterday.

keyurpatel80
04-23-2013, 11:23 AM
They are not idiots. They have their facts in place. This system is clearly broken. What they stated in the testimony was not incorrect. Remember it is a Senate testimony. You cannot make random claims without corroborating such claims with facts and figures. They would not have been invited if they were not credible. It is a true testimony of this nation's democracy. Pro and Anti immigration views were heard yesterday.

so if you are not working in Google of Microsoft and you are on h1b, do you consider yourself low skilled worked ?

pd052011
04-23-2013, 11:27 AM
so if you are not working in Google of Microsoft and you are on h1b, do you consider yourself low skilled worked ?

It is not for you or me to interpret and apply to ourselves personally. It is for the purpose of drafting a law. A law of a nation. And all voices need to be heard for that purpose. I am merely stating that it helps nobody's position by calling someone an idiot.

kiran_pathuri
04-23-2013, 11:30 AM
I even more surprised by Neeraj Gupta who used H1b himself painted everyone else as low skill worker. His target was TCS, Infosys and Wipro so his Start up do not face competition from them. Most disheartening to see that he targeted Indian H1b visa holder in whole testimony.
This is difference between US where they celebrate each other success and other side we envy or don't want other to succeed thats why we see Eb2 vs Eb3 etc.

They are respectable people. None of us have reached their level or higher in our profession. One is a professor of a reputed University and another one is a CEO of a big company. Even if we disagree we should not be cursing them. It only belittle us more. If we disagree, should we not contact them and talk to them? Are there any IV members from that University? or IV members who work for that company? They can go and discuss and give better suggestions.

I totally agree with bond4u. When I heard the testimony of Mr. Neeraj Gupta, he has mentioned that H1B has nothing to do with high skilled workers but more to do with economics. I say this, his testimony has nothing to do with correcting the system, but with economics of his newly found company. He mentioned that the jbos performed by people on H1B can also be done by Americans who has associate degrees, not even computer science degrees are requied. How is this going to help increase wages for American workers? He just want to do the same thing Infosys, Wipro is doing by employing low skilled, lowly payed Americans with just associate degrees. But his concept only works, if these Indian companies won't get H1Bs and there is huge shortage in the market. Only then people can accept someone with associate degree and not so skilled to do the job.

Way to go Mr. Neeraj Gupta. That is economics for you all.

It is really sad to see such a testimony. Mr. Neeraj Gupta he himself was a beneficiary of H1B, and also might have gotten his green card from one of these companies he is opposing now. Why hasn't he complained to USCIS and asked his company to withdraw his green card petition because the job he was doing was not so special and anybody with an associate degree can do the same. If he has gotten his green card in some other means, then I would like to withdraw this paragraph.

One of firend used to make more money 10 years ago with 2 years of experience during Y2k, dot com buble. People used to charge $4000 to $5000, to develop a static web page. Now you can do it yourself for free if you chose google apps or some other thing like that. So should we ban google apps or others also as they are lowering american workers wages. Also please remember what happened to the manufacturing sector. If at all Infosys and Wipro contribute to lowering the wages, and if we put restrictions on them, all the jobs might end up in India.

Also like Mr. Smith from Microsoft said, these firms are doing some very good things as well in certain areas.

Another question I have to Mr. Neeraj Gupta is who will give the training to these people with associate degrees, companies, government or will Mr. Neeraj Gupta himself will start training centers across America?

Again the bottom line: Its all economics, and economics that are good for Mr. Gupta.

keyurpatel80
04-23-2013, 11:34 AM
It is not for you or me to interpret and apply to ourselves personally. It is for the purpose of drafting a law. A law of a nation. And all voices need to be heard for that purpose. I am merely stating that it helps nobody's position by calling someone an idiot.

if they are convincing senate that most of jobs are low skilled, senate may start eliminate green card to H1B with their newly found term "low skilled". Why to give GC to "low skilled worker" ?

pd052011
04-23-2013, 11:41 AM
if they are convincing senate that most of jobs are low skilled, senate may start eliminate green card to H1B with their newly found term "low skilled". Why to give GC to "low skilled worker" ?

Lets not pretend to be chicken littles. Calm down. The sky is not falling. Fortunately, Senate is not driven entirely by emotion or anti- or pro- talking points. They are driven by making the immigration process better. Better for the people involved, for business, for the laws of the country etc but still minimize fraud. H1B abuse was the focal point.

For every Ron Hira/Neeraj Gupta, there was a Grover Norquist who was talking about the richness of the society's fabric brought about by high-skilled immigrants. As much as I have heard, there was no attempt to re-define H1B. Of course, if you are a developer in a managed services environment, the expectation of innovation from you is lower than someone working as a developer in Google. However, in a managed services environment, your role may be mission critical and hence "high-skilled" but not irreplaceable. It is all a matter of interpretation. No one is redefining the H1Bs. They are attempting to minimize the loopholes.

pd052011
04-23-2013, 11:56 AM
...And I think Neeraj Gupta missed that point. Innovation is not the only business motivator. People are needed to keep existing businesses operational and the wheels of the economy running. And for that H1Bs may be required given the lack of supply of existing American high-skilled labor (Many would dispute this theory too).

bondgoli007
04-23-2013, 02:23 PM
A very sensible post. I agree that the senate hearings are driven with the right agenda and goal. They are meant to help shape the laws to be fair for Americans and future Americans. We do need to partake in the process using IV platform to present our views and situations as future Americans.

However I feel it is also important to discuss the anti H1B views expressed. I personally disagree with most of Ron Hira's views simply because he comes across as anti immigrant in general but I do see some valid claims about H1B abuse that can be corrected not just for American workers but also for the employees in those firms.

Now Neeraj Gupta is a different case. His claim of having seen the abuse comes across as hypocritical and very opportunistic given his current business. Any respect for his business acumen and ability to create jobs for Americans is lost in his blatant attempts at reducing competition for his own good. Not to mention having leveraged the same opportunities he is trying to deny future young H1B workers to come to the US, work legally and hard to have a better life. Shallow and Selfish are some of the adjectives that come to mind.

Lets not pretend to be chicken littles. Calm down. The sky is not falling. Fortunately, Senate is not driven entirely by emotion or anti- or pro- talking points. They are driven by making the immigration process better. Better for the people involved, for business, for the laws of the country etc but still minimize fraud. H1B abuse was the focal point.

For every Ron Hira/Neeraj Gupta, there was a Grover Norquist who was talking about the richness of the society's fabric brought about by high-skilled immigrants. As much as I have heard, there was no attempt to re-define H1B. Of course, if you are a developer in a managed services environment, the expectation of innovation from you is lower than someone working as a developer in Google. However, in a managed services environment, your role may be mission critical and hence "high-skilled" but not irreplaceable. It is all a matter of interpretation. No one is redefining the H1Bs. They are attempting to minimize the loopholes.

augustus
04-23-2013, 02:24 PM
Bombing suspects’ immigration status emerges in reform bill talks (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/bombing-suspects-immigration-status-emerges-reform-bill-talks-160951186--election.html)

gvenkat
04-23-2013, 02:54 PM
A very sensible post. I agree that the senate hearings are driven with the right agenda and goal. They are meant to help shape the laws to be fair for Americans and future Americans. We do need to partake in the process using IV platform to present our views and situations as future Americans.

However I feel it is also important to discuss the anti H1B views expressed. I personally disagree with most of Ron Hira's views simply because he comes across as anti immigrant in general but I do see some valid claims about H1B abuse that can be corrected not just for American workers but also for the employees in those firms.

Now Neeraj Gupta is a different case. His claim of having seen the abuse comes across as hypocritical and very opportunistic given his current business. Any respect for his business acumen and ability to create jobs for Americans is lost in his blatant attempts at reducing competition for his own good. Not to mention having leveraged the same opportunities he is trying to deny future young H1B workers to come to the US, work legally and hard to have a better life. Shallow and Selfish are some of the adjectives that come to mind.

It's so obvious that this guy wants to have the H1-B's by cutting the competition:p.

pd052011
04-23-2013, 03:12 PM
It's so obvious that this guy wants to have the H1-B's by cutting the competition:p.
Whatever his motivation was, he sort of alienated (for lack of a better term) an entire community. I hope he ponders over and reconsiders the contributing factors for the unfair competition he (his firm) is facing.

gvenkat
04-23-2013, 03:26 PM
Whatever his motivation was, he sort of alienated (for lack of a better term) an entire community. I hope he ponders over and reconsiders the contributing factors for the unfair competition he (his firm) is facing.

Don't think he is a big player to be worried, But it's just depressing to see a person who took the path everyone wants to take through this bill opposing the bill for whatever reason makes u sick

bond4u
04-23-2013, 03:56 PM
Can we say for sure that these big and small consulting companies:

1) Pay Market rate salaries.
2) Make honest efforts to hire Americans first
3) Do not charge employees for immigration fees
4) Most backlog from India is not because of many Indians from these companies.
5) Most employees from these companies are not undergraduates or doing jobs that only require an undergraduate degree
6) Reports of exploitation on forums, lawsuits and DOL are not mostly from these companies
7) These companies are not causing outsourcing by 'shadowing' American employees at work and then taking business back to India.
8) They do not file most H1Bs of H4 visa holders who are not even engineers but B.Com and B.A. for positions like QA testers.
9) The reports of benching and not paying are not from these companies.
10) Majority of substituted labors are not from these companies
11) The prevailing wage is filed in one state that has lower salary but the employee is not sent to a site that has a higher wage.
12) Most cases of salary not given after the employer has left the company, unreasonable contracts holding the employee's freedom are not from these companies.
13) These companies are at the cutting edge of innovation and are producing products that are game changers for the industry.


Can anyone prove that any of the dirty 13 points above are incorrect. I will take back my support to the demand of cleaning up immigration system in the bigger interest of this nation.

Can you prove that everyone is corrupt on H1b system even person who is testifying against H1b himself on H1b visa and done great thing?

Also, there is abuse and loopholes in every system including Social security, Medicare and even US Tax code. Instead of pointing Indian IT giants they should point out only loopholes they exploits with proof instead of propaganda speech, instead of calling everyone cheap labor they should make provisions to close those loopholes.
There are still many forums out there like court to challenge those body shops and if you can prove your points which you mentioned you can take those companies down easily.

Not sure about your experience with Indian companies but I have seen TCS and Keane has developed many great projects for their Clients. My understanding is people who utilized those abusing practices could easily point out loopholes in system but I have seen many hardworking and qualified H1b so I will speak for them and against those snob who paint them just as cheap labor.

In short like every other system like h1B does have shortcomings but instead of finger point only to TCS not Accenture without any proof is dead wrong. I could even agree with Ron Hira who without any discrimination pointed out all companies not just Indian IT but companies like facebook (even in past he accused BAC) but Neeraj Gupta just proved a snob who achieved great success but lost his humble roots and only targeted Indian companies.

saviontly
04-23-2013, 04:18 PM
It is sad that people like Neeraj Gupta are part of Indian community, while others strive to help each other out, it's disheartening to see people like him, who worked for companies like Patni are calling out all H1s are low skilled and naming out Indian IT companies.

He reminds me of the story of an ignorant, who burns the boat the moment he crosses the stream. Quote - Never forget your past, it's the foundation that built your existence and the secret to your future.

gk_2000
04-23-2013, 05:22 PM
It is sad that people like Neeraj Gupta are part of Indian community, while others strive to help each other out, it's disheartening to see people like him, who worked for companies like Patni are calling out all H1s are low skilled and naming out Indian IT companies.

He reminds me of the story of an ignorant, who burns the boat the moment he crosses the stream. Quote - Never forget your past, it's the foundation that built your existence and the secret to your future.

Whatever he is doing, will say more loudly about him than about anyone else. The weakness of his character will come across because of his hypocrisy and ill-will toward his own people. I just hope he doesn't succeed in denting our boat after burning his own

immigrant2007
04-23-2013, 06:33 PM
They are respectable people. None of us have reached their level or higher in our profession. One is a professor of a reputed University and another one is a CEO of a big company. Even if we disagree we should not be cursing them. It only belittle us more. If we disagree, should we not contact them and talk to them? Are there any IV members from that University? or IV members who work for that company? They can go and discuss and give better suggestions.

I guess Ronhira also thinks that most manufacturing can be done in USA. Someone wh supports CIR for undocumented and thinks the back loggers are burden on the nation can not be rationale and does not need help but undocumented do in name of humanity as defied humanity himself. He misses whole point. I Most of us can challenge all his points even without a PHD. So what that makes him low skilled as us? I don't think he ever worked in programming that's why he thinks like that. Cant blame him. He is an elitist far from reality. What he has achieved in academics if due to his effort in academics. It doesn't make him specialist in all fields only thing is that his fame has given him platform where people listen to him. H1Bs could not be practically avoided. Also it is not fair at the same time inviting foreign students taking their money and kicking them out after you took their money that bad business 101. large % of students in US university are foreign and they deserve fair treatment. Even they come under H1B. What kind of facilities does he promise to them?

immigrant2007
04-23-2013, 06:36 PM
It is sad that people like Neeraj Gupta are part of Indian community, while others strive to help each other out, it's disheartening to see people like him, who worked for companies like Patni are calling out all H1s are low skilled and naming out Indian IT companies.

He reminds me of the story of an ignorant, who burns the boat the moment he crosses the stream. Quote - Never forget your past, it's the foundation that built your existence and the secret to your future.

What is high skilled. Are they not high school passouts? If programming was so easy every one would have been doing that. It requires certain aptitude like any other skill. How do they define Low Skill. Yeah it can be argued that all are not innovators but they work a greate deal to contribute a lot they are good programmers, analysts, designers, engineers so are engineers low skilled? At one he fights for not calling anyone illegal at the same time he is using low skilled. He is biased .

gvenkat
04-23-2013, 07:44 PM
To see that this person was an executive in Patni not so long ago, Makes one wonder..

imh1b
04-24-2013, 11:47 AM
Can we look at it another way? These 2 guys have decided to clean the sewer that is giving bad reputation to our country. They have been in the trenches and seen it as first hand experience. They are not like some folks who go through H1B, get greencard and then start their own consulting companies to continue the same cycle. These 2 are better guys who have chosen to clean the system.
Read http://www.oalj.dol.gov/Decisions/ALJ/PER/2010/In_re_COGNIZANT_TECHNOLOGI_2010PER01354_%28JAN_05_ 2012%29_073426_CADEC_SD.PDF
Counsel Announce $29.75 Million Settlement in Employment Class Action Lawsuit Against the Indian Conglomerate Tata - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/counsel-announce-29-75-million-130000266.html)

There are many links we can find. Don't we all wish the name of our country shine in the world and we lead by example? We are from a land of Mahatma Gandhi and other great leaders and saints. What have we become now?

gvenkat
04-24-2013, 12:32 PM
Can we look at it another way? These 2 guys have decided to clean the sewer that is giving bad reputation to our country. They have been in the trenches and seen it as first hand experience. They are not like some folks who go through H1B, get greencard and then start their own consulting companies to continue the same cycle. These 2 are better guys who have chosen to clean the system.
Read http://www.oalj.dol.gov/Decisions/ALJ/PER/2010/In_re_COGNIZANT_TECHNOLOGI_2010PER01354_%28JAN_05_ 2012%29_073426_CADEC_SD.PDF
Counsel Announce $29.75 Million Settlement in Employment Class Action Lawsuit Against the Indian Conglomerate Tata - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/counsel-announce-29-75-million-130000266.html)

There are many links we can find. Don't we all wish the name of our country shine in the world and we lead by example? We are from a land of Mahatma Gandhi and other great leaders and saints. What have we become now?

I hope you are joking. This Gupta fella made his money, GC and his career by working for an off-shore Indian company for the majority of his life. Now he is a saint and wants to clean up the system eh? Boss please get real. :p

looivy
04-24-2013, 01:11 PM
To see that this person was an executive in Patni not so long ago, Makes one wonder..

Patni went down the drain. It struggled a lot as an It company. Got acquired by iGate. iGate then to disaasociate with Patni dropped Patni name.

Patni was a very badly managed company. It shows how good of an executive this guy is.

Dingdong
04-24-2013, 02:15 PM
Neeraj Gupta's logic seems flawed, just like it is for everyone who decries offshoring - be it for manufacturing or services. Lower costs are good for the economy, not bad. If costs are lower due to H-1B visas, then let us have more of them not less. A country prospers by putting its resources to the most productive use. Even if Mr. Gupta is right that H-B visa holders are doing low-level work, it would be a dumb idea to replace them with American workers. Instead, the goal should be to train American workers to do high level work, which per Mr. Gupta, is being done at Google and Microsoft. The costs will ultimately be lowered, whether H-1B visas are issued or not. Ultimately, companies will have to figure out a way even if it will be a little more painful to get it done over long distances. What part of the world is Mr. Gupta living in? In the developed world, the only way to grow profit is to cut costs as there is hardly any economic growth. Mr. Gupta and those in the Congress will be served well by reading the Principle of Comparative Advantage, written over 200 years ago by Adam Smith.

kiran_pathuri
04-24-2013, 02:22 PM
Can we look at it another way? These 2 guys have decided to clean the sewer that is giving bad reputation to our country. They have been in the trenches and seen it as first hand experience. They are not like some folks who go through H1B, get greencard and then start their own consulting companies to continue the same cycle. These 2 are better guys who have chosen to clean the system.
Read http://www.oalj.dol.gov/Decisions/ALJ/PER/2010/In_re_COGNIZANT_TECHNOLOGI_2010PER01354_%28JAN_05_ 2012%29_073426_CADEC_SD.PDF
Counsel Announce $29.75 Million Settlement in Employment Class Action Lawsuit Against the Indian Conglomerate Tata - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/counsel-announce-29-75-million-130000266.html)

There are many links we can find. Don't we all wish the name of our country shine in the world and we lead by example? We are from a land of Mahatma Gandhi and other great leaders and saints. What have we become now?

I hope you are joking. This Gupta fella made his money, GC and his career by working for an off-shore Indian company for the majority of his life. Now he is a saint and wants to clean up the system eh? Boss please get real. :p

I totally agree with gvenkat. Why didn't he tried to clean the sewer before he got his GC. Has he told his employer that he didn't deserver his GC and his work can be performed by anybody with an associate degree.

kiran_pathuri
04-24-2013, 02:43 PM
And a little more research about Systems In Motion, to which Mr. Neeraj Gupta is the CEO reveals the following. They have filed for a total of 11 H1B and 1 got denied. The company started in 2009 and have filed 4 LCAs for H1B in 2012 and 5 in 2011. No records of filing green cards to any of them. Why is not he hiring American citizens with associate degrees and training them to do the job. Also the company has not filed for any Green cards so far. One of the complaints we heard during the testimony was the offshore companies won't sponsor GCs. Mr. Neeraj Gupta himself has mentioned accenture as an example. Why is he not filing for Green Cards for his H1B employees immediately.

forever_waiting
04-24-2013, 03:08 PM
Very valid points.

Basically this guy's testimony was a very opportunistic statement...if he becomes the CEO of Infosys tommorow his stance and testimony will change.
His company website claims that they focus on "domestic outsourcing". The current legislation lays a lot of restrictions on H1B-dependent employers..which is why he says why focus on local H1b dependent companies??, why dont you target the bigger outsourcing/offshoring companies who are the "real problem"? And according to him, once they don't get visas, it will free up H1B for Microsoft and Google!? (cleverly hiding behind other real technology companies).
He thinks that once offshoring companies are targeted and get lesser visas (which will never happen..they have much more lobbying power and will always find a loophole in any law), he can hire more of the H1Bs that he is currently speaking against. typical corporate hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness.

And a little more research about Systems In Motion, to which Mr. Neeraj Gupta is the CEO reveals the following. They have filed for a total of 11 H1B and 1 got denied. The company started in 2009 and have filed 4 LCAs for H1B in 2012 and 5 in 2011. No records of filing green cards to any of them. Why is not he hiring American citizens with associate degrees and training them to do the job. Also the company has not filed for any Green cards so far. One of the complaints we heard during the testimony was the offshore companies won't sponsor GCs. Mr. Neeraj Gupta himself has mentioned accenture as an example. Why is he not filing for Green Cards for his H1B employees immediately.

imh1b
04-24-2013, 03:12 PM
I totally agree with gvenkat. Why didn't he tried to clean the sewer before he got his GC. Has he told his employer that he didn't deserver his GC and his work can be performed by anybody with an associate degree.

It is easier said than done. None of us are capable of cleaning that sewer. When we are on H1B visa and do not have a greencard we are scared to do anything like that. Our goal is to simply get a greencard. We all suffer from employers, greencard backlog, lack of promotion, pay hikes, wife not able to work on H4 ....Once we get a greencard many people focus on career, peaceful life and prefer not to look back. Some start their own consulting firms and do the same others did and try to profit from other H1Bs. No one has ever decided to clean the system. No one wants to. We love to talk how bad consulting firms are when we are exploited. Check websites where people write reviews of firms if you do not believe me. But we go back to them when we lose our jobs or want to file in EB2. Isn't that true? We also take advantage of them in a way.

kiran_pathuri
04-24-2013, 03:30 PM
It is easier said than done. None of us are capable of cleaning that sewer. When we are on H1B visa and do not have a greencard we are scared to do anything like that. Our goal is to simply get a greencard. We all suffer from employers, greencard backlog, lack of promotion, pay hikes, wife not able to work on H4 ....Once we get a greencard many people focus on career, peaceful life and prefer not to look back. Some start their own consulting firms and do the same others did and try to profit from other H1Bs. No one has ever decided to clean the system. No one wants to. We love to talk how bad consulting firms are when we are exploited. Check websites where people write reviews of firms if you do not believe me. But we go back to them when we lose our jobs or want to file in EB2. Isn't that true? We also take advantage of them in a way.

I agree with your points on how we behave. But if you take adavantage of a system to get your own GC and then speak against the same system that profited you once because speaking against it now profits you, it is called hypocrisy, not cleaning the sewer.

kiran_pathuri
04-24-2013, 03:34 PM
It is easier said than done. None of us are capable of cleaning that sewer. When we are on H1B visa and do not have a greencard we are scared to do anything like that. Our goal is to simply get a greencard. We all suffer from employers, greencard backlog, lack of promotion, pay hikes, wife not able to work on H4 ....Once we get a greencard many people focus on career, peaceful life and prefer not to look back. Some start their own consulting firms and do the same others did and try to profit from other H1Bs. No one has ever decided to clean the system. No one wants to. We love to talk how bad consulting firms are when we are exploited. Check websites where people write reviews of firms if you do not believe me. But we go back to them when we lose our jobs or want to file in EB2. Isn't that true? We also take advantage of them in a way.

I agree with your points on how we behave. But if you take adavantage of a system to get your own GC and then speak against the same system that profited you once because speaking against it now profits you, it is called hypocrisy, not cleaning the sewer.

If not hypocricy, he might have visited Buddha Gaya as does not need to get his visa stamped after GC/citizenship and got the Gnanodayam.

bond4u
04-24-2013, 04:09 PM
Can we look at it another way? These 2 guys have decided to clean the sewer that is giving bad reputation to our country. They have been in the trenches and seen it as first hand experience. They are not like some folks who go through H1B, get greencard and then start their own consulting companies to continue the same cycle. These 2 are better guys who have chosen to clean the system.
Read http://www.oalj.dol.gov/Decisions/ALJ/PER/2010/In_re_COGNIZANT_TECHNOLOGI_2010PER01354_%28JAN_05_ 2012%29_073426_CADEC_SD.PDF
Counsel Announce $29.75 Million Settlement in Employment Class Action Lawsuit Against the Indian Conglomerate Tata - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/counsel-announce-29-75-million-130000266.html)

There are many links we can find. Don't we all wish the name of our country shine in the world and we lead by example? We are from a land of Mahatma Gandhi and other great leaders and saints. What have we become now?

Like every system, H1b is polluted but painting all Indian only companies for their personal gains is wrong. You can definitely find links for abuses of H1b visa by US companies to like Cisco or Facebook. I do not have beef with Ron Hira but Neeraj gupta. Ron Hira also singled out Facebook and BAC H1b practices.whatever he is doing he may be right in his own mind but Mr Neeraj Gupta is just trying their to seek advantage for his US based company.

I do not see difference between Chuck Grassley /Jeff Session who is trying to paint all immigrants as terrorist in Boston bombing context and Neeraj Gupta who trying to paint all h1b as low skill workers in context of few instances of h1b abuses even though he was one of them.

Every Visa category has abuses including f1 visa, diversity lottery visa, and Asylum seeker visa through which these Boston bombers came through.
It is unbelievable we are bashing fellow Indians by testimonies driven for personal gains by fellow Indians. I still have to see any Hispanics to come forward and speak against IILEGAL workers or proposed W visa.

bond4u
04-24-2013, 04:21 PM
It is easier said than done. None of us are capable of cleaning that sewer. When we are on H1B visa and do not have a greencard we are scared to do anything like that. Our goal is to simply get a greencard. We all suffer from employers, greencard backlog, lack of promotion, pay hikes, wife not able to work on H4 ....Once we get a greencard many people focus on career, peaceful life and prefer not to look back. Some start their own consulting firms and do the same others did and try to profit from other H1Bs. No one has ever decided to clean the system. No one wants to. We love to talk how bad consulting firms are when we are exploited. Check websites where people write reviews of firms if you do not believe me. But we go back to them when we lose our jobs or want to file in EB2. Isn't that true? We also take advantage of them in a way.

Not denying this but CIR bill is not forum clean this sewer there are other forums to deal with these dirt bags especially consulting firms as Mr Smith indicated. No law could prevent those parasites to use this system because they are overnight shops can easily manipulates any loopholes. Only those kind of testimonies are going to hurt eligible immigrants and paint our whole community in bad light. World can take Neeraj Gupta testimonies as confession for all.
I really like H1b provisions to curb abuse in current bill and Grassley amendments in HR 3012 for Audits and hope more will be done in this regard but this time Neeraj Gupta testimonies ticked me off when he tried to painted everyone with same color.

But as you refering earlier like we are from country of Mahatama but we are also country of Jaichand.:D

bond4u
04-24-2013, 04:29 PM
And a little more research about Systems In Motion, to which Mr. Neeraj Gupta is the CEO reveals the following. They have filed for a total of 11 H1B and 1 got denied. The company started in 2009 and have filed 4 LCAs for H1B in 2012 and 5 in 2011. No records of filing green cards to any of them. Why is not he hiring American citizens with associate degrees and training them to do the job. Also the company has not filed for any Green cards so far. One of the complaints we heard during the testimony was the offshore companies won't sponsor GCs. Mr. Neeraj Gupta himself has mentioned accenture as an example. Why is he not filing for Green Cards for his H1B employees immediately.

Good work Kiran..

Also I do not understand why Neeraj/Ron Hira complained Indian IT companies for not filing for GC. Intent of H1b is temporary worker .isn't?:confused: