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View Full Version : How does HR3012 impact Philippines & other backlogged countries


leo81
10-16-2011, 04:37 PM
Can someone explain if this bill will only help India and China or if it will also help other backlogged countries like Philippines. I see that the number of EB3 folks from Philippines has increased a lot in recent years, more than any other country, based on recent PERM data. With the current system with only 7% limit for any country, it might take more than 10 years for me to get my green card. So will this bill mean I can get it sooner, because it will be based on when I applied?

leo81
10-16-2011, 04:52 PM
Its not fair for anyone after my priority date to get green card just because they are from a different country

sindhu
10-16-2011, 05:18 PM
This bill is to bring fairness to the system. There shouldn't be any discrimination between Race or country of birth.

Yes, HR 3012 if enacted would eliminate the country of birth based discrimination on the Employment category.

Can someone explain if this bill will only help India and China or if it will also help other backlogged countries like Philippines. I see that the number of EB3 folks from Philippines has increased a lot in recent years, more than any other country, based on recent PERM data. With the current system with only 7% limit for any country, it might take more than 10 years for me to get my green card. So will this bill mean I can get it sooner, because it will be based on when I applied?

neelu8
10-16-2011, 08:10 PM
Can someone explain if this bill will only help India and China or if it will also help other backlogged countries like Philippines. I see that the number of EB3 folks from Philippines has increased a lot in recent years, more than any other country, based on recent PERM data. With the current system with only 7% limit for any country, it might take more than 10 years for me to get my green card. So will this bill mean I can get it sooner, because it will be based on when I applied?

This bill provides relief to all backlogged countries - India, China, Philippines and Mexico. In the 3 year transition period it allows 85% (90% in 2nd and 3rd yr) of visas without any country limit on a first come first basis, ensuring that all the backlogged countries get relief (through some limits and reserves) and are brought on par with rest of the world . At the same time the remaning 15% is reserved for ROW so that they can continue to move and it is eased in for those who are already in the queue. After the transition period, it is based on a purely first come first serve basis regardless of which country one is from.

Its not fair for anyone after my priority date to get green card just because they are from a different country

Exactly! This bill removes the country based discrimination and the EB immigration system will be based purely on a first come first served principle, like it should have been in the first place!

manchala
10-17-2011, 09:32 AM
Its not fair for anyone after my priority date to get green card just because they are from a different country

This is what is happening now. This bill will make sure first come first served which means you will be given GC before any one applying after you did.

If this bill does not go through you will be waiting for GC while others are getting even though they come after you did.

thomachan72
10-17-2011, 10:07 AM
This is what is happening now. This bill will make sure first come first served which means you will be given GC before any one applying after you did.

If this bill does not go through you will be waiting for GC while others are getting even though they come many many years after you did.

Slight correction to your post manchala

forever_waiting
10-17-2011, 04:29 PM
leo81, thats a very good quesiton. eb3-phil backlog has only been growing every year due to additional retrogression and at the same time (as you point out) most of the PERM apps in recent years have greater density from Philippines. so, with the status quo, the eb3-phil backlog will only continue to grow. this is seen from recent DoS stats by which phil has been getting lower and lower number of green cards every year (20K+ in 2006 down to less than 6K in 2010). removal of per country cap will mean that in the first year of the transition itself, Phil wll get a clear short at close to 5500 visas which are reserved and IN ADDITION phil will also get green cards from the 85% fifo queue since there are EB3-phil applicants stuck since 2005. so what will happen is that after 2 years, in a fair and FIFO queue, majority of gcs will go to Phil and ROW due to greater density of PERMS approved in recent years (so will be ahead in the priority order). all the more reason for India, China, Mexico and Phillipines to strongly support HR3012. these are the most backlogged categories and need removal of per country caps.
hope that makes sense.

leo81
10-17-2011, 05:40 PM
So in the transition period India and China will get 85% of green cards to bring them to same level as everyone and Philippines will get atleast 5500? And after that, it will be whichever country that has more applicants in following years because country won't matter. I think EB3 Philippines will benefit immensely from this bill after transition period, because in the last 3-4 years Philippines has most applications in EB3. Principally, I agree with first come first serve. It is fair.
I will make the calls to support this bill and ask my friends to do so as well. Thanks for this effort.

Rb_newsletter
10-17-2011, 07:55 PM
So in the transition period India and China will get 85% of green cards to bring them to same level as everyone and Philippines will get atleast 5500? And after that, it will be whichever country that has more applicants in following years because country won't matter. I think EB3 Philippines will benefit immensely from this bill after transition period, because in the last 3-4 years Philippines has most applications in EB3. Principally, I agree with first come first serve. It is fair.
I will make the calls to support this bill and ask my friends to do so as well. Thanks for this effort.

Leo81, in my opinion this is best bill for all of EB.

neelu8
10-17-2011, 08:42 PM
So in the transition period India and China will get 85% of green cards to bring them to same level as everyone and Philippines will get atleast 5500? And after that, it will be whichever country that has more applicants in following years because country won't matter. I think EB3 Philippines will benefit immensely from this bill after transition period, because in the last 3-4 years Philippines has most applications in EB3. Principally, I agree with first come first serve. It is fair.
I will make the calls to support this bill and ask my friends to do so as well. Thanks for this effort.

Thanks for your support Leo81. Please note the 85% is fifo so although it will mostly go to India and China as they have more backlog (in both EB2 and EB3), anyone with earlier priority dates will get visas in that category. So Philippines and Mexico will/can get more than the 5500 reserved for them, during the transition period. And as you correctly pointed out, in the later years Philippines will likely benefit the most from a fifo system. And of course, regardless of which country benefits, this is the right thing to do. There should be no discrimination in employment system based on country of origin. Only skills and merit should matter.

On an matter unrelated to employment based immigration, this bill also increases the family based immigration country limits from 7% to 15% and Mexico and Philippines will be the primary beneficiaries of that change.

So please participate in the action items and spread the word around. Thank you again for your support!

TO BE OR NO TO BE
10-20-2011, 12:12 PM
Everyone will benefit....

To answer the question about how it will benefit RoW (or all other countries except IN and CH), if we look at the EB2 and EB3 visa movements between 2001 and 2004 one will wonder why all the countries were current, for that long, especially after so many H-1B professionals that came in around dot.com boom and y2k and H1B quota was also increased between 1999 to 2003 (upto 195,000 visa) back then. The answer is AC-21 (the American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act) removed the per country limit. This provision expired in December 2004 as there was a sunset provision in this law which removed per country limit provision in December 2004. If you look at the visa bulletins after the sunset, you will notice the retrogression kicking in and getting worst ever since.

See the attachment for the AC21 act.

December 2002 visa bulletin (visa bulletin website only goes this far as of now) - Visa Bulletin for April 2002 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_1350.html)

December 2004 visa bulletin - Visa Bulletin for December 2004 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_1343.html)

January 2005 visa bulletin - Visa Bulletin for January 2005 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_2007.html) - you will notice that EB-3 is already retrogressed for IN, CH , and Phil. Only ME and RoW were current.

December 2005 visa bulleting - Visa Bulletin for December 2005 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_2744.html) - you will notice that for EB2 IN and CH is retrogressed and EB3 all the countries are retrogressed.

And since then EB3 is always retrogressed.

During this entire time (from 2001 to 2004) there was no other change - other than they had recaptured only 130,000 unused visas from years prior to 2001. They still used to count dependents for visa and there were no more visas then 140,000. Despite of all these - all the countries were current for 4 full years only because there was no per country limit.

If you know someone who got their green card under employment based between years 1996 to 1999 please check with them how was retrogression back then and they will tell you that it was similar to the last few years. Removal of per country limit helped clear the backlog from post dot.com and y2k years big time.

I know this because I am came to this country in December 1999 (on H-1B) and had been following immigration since then.

I hope this was helpful.

Chandini
07-07-2012, 06:47 AM
Yes this is true.

I know this because I am came to this country in January 1996 and had been following immigration since then.

Its been 9+ yrs since i filed my GC (Still waiting)
Its been 7 yrs since i filed 485.
I have a Masters degree also from this country. I have been following immigration since long time.




Everyone will benefit....

To answer the question about how it will benefit RoW (or all other countries except IN and CH), if we look at the EB2 and EB3 visa movements between 2001 and 2004 one will wonder why all the countries were current, for that long, especially after so many H-1B professionals that came in around dot.com boom and y2k and H1B quota was also increased between 1999 to 2003 (upto 195,000 visa) back then. The answer is AC-21 (the American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act) removed the per country limit. This provision expired in December 2004 as there was a sunset provision in this law which removed per country limit provision in December 2004. If you look at the visa bulletins after the sunset, you will notice the retrogression kicking in and getting worst ever since.

See the attachment for the AC21 act.

December 2002 visa bulletin (visa bulletin website only goes this far as of now) - Visa Bulletin for April 2002 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_1350.html)

December 2004 visa bulletin - Visa Bulletin for December 2004 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_1343.html)

January 2005 visa bulletin - Visa Bulletin for January 2005 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_2007.html) - you will notice that EB-3 is already retrogressed for IN, CH , and Phil. Only ME and RoW were current.

December 2005 visa bulleting - Visa Bulletin for December 2005 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_2744.html) - you will notice that for EB2 IN and CH is retrogressed and EB3 all the countries are retrogressed.

And since then EB3 is always retrogressed.

During this entire time (from 2001 to 2004) there was no other change - other than they had recaptured only 130,000 unused visas from years prior to 2001. They still used to count dependents for visa and there were no more visas then 140,000. Despite of all these - all the countries were current for 4 full years only because there was no per country limit.

If you know someone who got their green card under employment based between years 1996 to 1999 please check with them how was retrogression back then and they will tell you that it was similar to the last few years. Removal of per country limit helped clear the backlog from post dot.com and y2k years big time.

I know this because I am came to this country in December 1999 (on H-1B) and had been following immigration since then.

I hope this was helpful.

gc_check
07-07-2012, 07:07 AM
So in the transition period India and China will get 85% of green cards to bring them to same level as everyone and Philippines will get atleast 5500? And after that, it will be whichever country that has more applicants in following years because country won't matter. I think EB3 Philippines will benefit immensely from this bill after transition period, because in the last 3-4 years Philippines has most applications in EB3. Principally, I agree with first come first serve. It is fair.
I will make the calls to support this bill and ask my friends to do so as well. Thanks for this effort.

WITHOUT the bill, EB3 Philippines will get fewer than ~2400+ only due to the current 7% limitation set for a single state. With the bill you get benefit from the year one. With the 15% and 10% set for ROW during transition period help everyone. There can't be a better proposal that takes everyone into consideration. The bill had too / will pass congress. Please get the people you know to support this effort.

caviteman
07-07-2012, 02:22 PM
WITHOUT the bill, EB3 Philippines will get fewer than ~2400+ only due to the current 7% limitation set for a single state. With the bill you get benefit from the year one. With the 15% and 10% set for ROW during transition period help everyone. There can't be a better proposal that takes everyone into consideration. The bill had too / will pass congress. Please get the people you know to support this effort.

I don't think Philippines will benefit right away from this bill. In fact, Philippines will retrogress if this will become a law. Only after the 3-year transition period will they realize its benefits, when their wait time has increased tremendously (maybe about 5 years more?). HR3012 is good if there will be additional visa numbers, if not, it will only divert the current allocation to I/C and this will greatly impact(negatively) other countries.

Check this out: http:///2011/10/hr-3012-estimation-of-eb-category-cut.html

See how the allocation might look like.

gc_check
07-07-2012, 03:01 PM
I don't think Philippines will benefit right away from this bill. In fact, Philippines will retrogress if this will become a law. Only after the 3-year transition period will they realize its benefits, when their wait time has increased tremendously (maybe about 5 years more?). HR3012 is good if there will be additional visa numbers, if not, it will only divert the current allocation to I/C and this will greatly impact(negatively) other countries.

Check this out: http:///2011/10/hr-3012-estimation-of-eb-category-cut.html

See how the allocation might look like.


As of Visa Bulletin For July 2012, PHILIPPINES is already retrogressed.
Visa Bulletin For July 2012 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5733.html)

H.R 3012 bill text in below link
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr3012pcs/pdf/BILLS-112hr3012pcs.pdf

In a scenario with H.R. 3012 passed, the PD dates will reset for all and no can call tell now what the priority date will be at that time. Also looking at the priority dates for Philippines, do not think they will be a huge shift, however the dates in advance faster than all these years. Overall the wait time is significantly reduced for the all EB applicants including ROW. Do the math your self and you will find the logic behind this. There might be a small wait for few people, but mostly likely less than one Fiscal Year for the folks already current with the % allowed for the transition time, but definitely not like the 70 years wait some people would have to under the current system.

If you visited IV often, I guess that was a lot of analysis already done on the various scenario and it is not time to work / gather support for the Bill.

There is no other solution in table now. This is the only solution that will address this issue without big change to the system.

caviteman
07-07-2012, 03:24 PM
As of Visa Bulletin For July 2012, PHILIPPINES is already retrogressed.
Visa Bulletin For July 2012 (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5733.html)

H.R 3012 bill text in below link
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr3012pcs/pdf/BILLS-112hr3012pcs.pdf

In a scenario with H.R. 3012 passed, the PD dates will reset for all and no can call tell now what the priority date will be at that time. Also looking at the priority dates for Philippines, do not think they will be a huge shift, however the dates in advance faster than all these years. Overall the wait time is significantly reduced for the all EB applicants including ROW. Do the math your self and you will find the logic behind this. There might be a small wait for few people, but mostly likely less than one Fiscal Year for the folks already current with the % allowed for the transition time, but definitely not like the 70 years wait some people would have to under the current system.

If you visited IV often, I guess that was a lot of analysis already done on the various scenario and it is not time to work / gather support for the Bill.

There is no other solution in table now. This is the only solution that will address this issue without big change to the system.

Thank you and yes I visit IV often. What I meant about retrogression in PHILIPPINES is that the dates will be pushed back some more.

I think HR3012 is a good bill for the whole legal immigration community but not in its current form. The feedback I get from others is that this bill is only advantageous to I/C and I don't blame them. I am now sure how the 85% allocation came into picture but I think we should work more on a better % for a really smooth transition, the one that will not greatly impact other countries. In its current form, just looking at it, most visas will only be allocated to I/C not to mention the benefit they get from the present spillover rule.

imh1b
07-07-2012, 05:23 PM
caviteman 'others' are telling you lies. Why are you listening to others. Visit IV often and understand more about the bill. And if a new bill is needed, we will all work together after this to improve immigration. This is just one step. More will be there if we work hard for it.

caviteman
07-07-2012, 06:07 PM
caviteman 'others' are telling you lies. Why are you listening to others. Visit IV often and understand more about the bill. And if a new bill is needed, we will all work together after this to improve immigration. This is just one step. More will be there if we work hard for it.

I listen to both sides. I just hope EB I/C, ROW, M and P can work together for a better bill. I just feel that other countries will be affected negatively by this as it stands now. Hopefully, there will be an amendment that will somehow 'lessen' the impact on other countries. I just don't feel that the current proposed allocation is right for everybody.

caviteman
07-07-2012, 06:10 PM
caviteman 'others' are telling you lies. Why are you listening to others. Visit IV often and understand more about the bill. And if a new bill is needed, we will all work together after this to improve immigration. This is just one step. More will be there if we work hard for it.

I listen to both sides. I just hope EB I/C, ROW, M and P can work together for a better bill. I just feel that other countries will be affected negatively by this as it stands now. Hopefully, there will be an amendment that will somehow 'lessen' the impact on other countries. I just don't feel that the current proposed allocation is right for everybody.

caviteman
07-07-2012, 06:12 PM
caviteman 'others' are telling you lies. Why are you listening to others. Visit IV often and understand more about the bill. And if a new bill is needed, we will all work together after this to improve immigration. This is just one step. More will be there if we work hard for it.

I listen to both sides. I just hope EB I/C, ROW, M and P can work together for a better bill. I just feel that other countries will be affected negatively by this as it stands now. Hopefully, there will be an amendment that will somehow 'lessen' the impact on other countries. I just don't feel that the current proposed allocation is right for everybody.

gk_2000
07-07-2012, 11:08 PM
I listen to both sides. I just hope EB I/C, ROW, M and P can work together for a better bill. I just feel that other countries will be affected negatively by this as it stands now. Hopefully, there will be an amendment that will somehow 'lessen' the impact on other countries. I just don't feel that the current proposed allocation is right for everybody.

Even if medicine tastes bitter it is still medicine. Is it not so my friend

caviteman
07-07-2012, 11:29 PM
Even if medicine tastes bitter it is still medicine. Is it not so my friend

It is, but the medicine you're talking about, aside from bad taste has bad side effects.

gc_check
07-08-2012, 12:14 AM
@caviteman --> Based on your PD / Category, this Bill is the only solution that will help you and folks in similar category like yours. E3 category is pretty crowded for Philippines as well. I do not know the "other source" that is misguiding people, but this bill will pass and the EB issue will be addressed. There isn't any other solution available.

bpratap
07-08-2012, 01:05 AM
Rest assured, that nobody after your PD will get GC before your's. The Bill HR. 3012 is all about fairness, First come first serve.

I don't know from where people got the idea of 85% reserved during the transition period. its the other way around. Read the Bill properly. its 15% reserved for ROW. so if a ROW who have a PD similar to I/C it could be allocated from 15% or the rest. but for sure 15% is reserved for ROW.


I listen to both sides. I just hope EB I/C, ROW, M and P can work together for a better bill. I just feel that other countries will be affected negatively by this as it stands now. Hopefully, there will be an amendment that will somehow 'lessen' the impact on other countries. I just don't feel that the current proposed allocation is right for everybody.

gk_2000
07-08-2012, 01:22 AM
It is, but the medicine you're talking about, aside from bad taste has bad side effects.

Something better than nothing. There are so few doctors and so many quack (false) doctors. Then there is the environment, which has shortage of the medicine, so we make do with what we have, so we survive another day

caviteman
07-09-2012, 01:33 PM
Something better than nothing. There are so few doctors and so many quack (false) doctors. Then there is the environment, which has shortage of the medicine, so we make do with what we have, so we survive another day

Now, are you trying to tell THE 'OTHERS' to take this medicine even if you know(and they know) that it will not cure them and might worsen their condition? Would you take this medicine even if you think it will not cure you at all?

chakdepatte
07-09-2012, 01:56 PM
Now, are you trying to tell THE 'OTHERS' to take this medicine even if you know(and they know) that it will not cure them and might worsen their condition? Would you take this medicine even if you think it will not cure you at all?

@Caviteman - Fair concern but you can crib or point flaws in others arguments but what matters is doing something. Everyone from ROW is enjoying being 'lucky' of not being born in the retrogressed countries and is upset that the advantage is going to be gone. The one who suffers will try to find a cure, even though it may or may not work. Those enjoying good health dont bother and will never bother.

You just sound a someone trying to pursuade a cancer patient from avoiding chemotherapy. I once had that friend.

Enjoy, while it lasts.

imh1b
07-09-2012, 02:05 PM
Now, are you trying to tell THE 'OTHERS' to take this medicine even if you know(and they know) that it will not cure them and might worsen their condition? Would you take this medicine even if you think it will not cure you at all?

You have been an IV member since 2008. How much have you done to help root out this ailment? Why are you faking your profile to be from Ph and trying to start a fight. This fight will not last here and do not bother wasting our time.

What has been your support till now? If you think visa recapture is the solution, how about you and ROW go and get recapture bill passed for all of us? What were you ROW doing for last 5 years? You were not even bothered about our pain. Now suddenly people wake up from tracking because their tracking will now be much longer.

Guys let us not feed these trolls. However much you tell them reasons, they will not listen or understand. They are so selfish that they cannot even wait for an extra day for green cards. They have been writing that Indians are fraud etc. Lets not feed racist folks.

gc_check
07-09-2012, 02:22 PM
@caviteman --> Based on your PD / Category, this Bill is the only solution that will help you and folks in similar category like yours. E3 category is pretty crowded for Philippines as well. I do not know the "other source" that is misguiding people, but this bill will pass and the EB issue will be addressed. There isn't any other solution available.

@caviteman --> You are trying to look at the system / how thing work always having Only your own PD in mind. You are not even looking at situation for people from Philippines & other backlogged countries with PD prior to you or around the same time.

Look at the inventory below.

http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Green%20Card/Green%20Card%20Through%20a%20Job/I-485%20Employment-Based%20Inventory%20Statistics/Employment-based%20I-485%20Pending%20Inventory%20as%20of%2005-03-12.pdf

You are looking @ 3500+ , I-485 Applicants have already filed just for '07 (Philippines only). This does not include people who opt Consular processing and years prior to that. Also generally many people from Philippines come for medical profession (Larger percentage is taken by Philippines and PD is at '07 year only due to 50,000 Visa re-captured few years back only for Nurses and Doctors).

You are trying to argue against a bill that is intended to help your self.

This bills is the solution and there can't be any other better solution than this one that helps everyone.

Do not believe wrong information that people against this solution are spreading. Start helpful yourself and also others by supporting this bill.

gc_check
07-09-2012, 02:25 PM
--> Cont. from above post.

@caviteman --> The current inventory shows more applicants already in Queue to consume all the EB3 Philippines 7% allowed under the current system. The applicants who apply through the Consulate is not even counted. You need to understand how the system works and then you will be able to relate to the relief provided by this bill.

Sunx_2004
07-09-2012, 02:30 PM
for all ROWers who oppose HR3012...

You have been an IV member since 2008. How much have you done to help root out this ailment? Why are you faking your profile to be from Ph and trying to start a fight. This fight will not last here and do not bother wasting our time.

What has been your support till now? If you think visa recapture is the solution, how about you and ROW go and get recapture bill passed for all of us? What were you ROW doing for last 5 years? You were not even bothered about our pain. Now suddenly people wake up from tracking because their tracking will now be much longer.

Guys let us not feed these trolls. However much you tell them reasons, they will not listen or understand. They are so selfish that they cannot even wait for an extra day for green cards. They have been writing that Indians are fraud etc. Lets not feed racist folks.

gk_2000
07-09-2012, 02:40 PM
Now, are you trying to tell THE 'OTHERS' to take this medicine even if you know(and they know) that it will not cure them and might worsen their condition? Would you take this medicine even if you think it will not cure you at all?

What OTHERS will gain? They will gain numbers. We combine our strengths. You just wait and see

Remember, the one who craps on you isn't always your enemy, and the one who takes you out of the crap isn't always your friend ..