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View Full Version : New Stimulus Bill Seeks to bar ITIN families AGAIN


Totoro
01-29-2009, 08:06 PM
UPDATE: Our efforts to have the discriminatory language removed was successful!

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________

Action item. Contact your congressman or senator to complain about this. I am talking to a lawyer who wants examples of people who will be affected. If you want me to send him your information, PM me.

Stimulus seeks to bar illegals from tax credit

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS – 33 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Illegal immigrants without Social Security numbers could not get tax credits under the $800 billion-plus economic stimulus package making its way through Congress.

A senior GOP congressional official expressed concern Thursday that the bill could steer government checks to undocumented workers, but in fact the measure prevents anyone without a Social Security number from claiming tax credits of $500 per worker and $1,000 per couple. It also expressly disqualifies nonresident aliens.

The Republican spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. But Democrats were quick to reject the notion.

"This legislation is directed toward people who are legal in our country. It is about time the Republicans got a different piece of reading material and get off this illegal immigrant stuff," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. "This bill has nothing to do with anything illegal as far as immigration. It creates jobs for people who are lawfully in this country."

A revolt among GOP conservatives to provisions of last year's economic stimulus bill, which sent rebate checks to most wage earners, forced Democratic congressional leaders to add stricter eligibility requirements. That legislation, enacted in February 2008, required that people have valid Social Security numbers in order to get checks.

The current plan imposes the same limits for the tax credit as are in place for the Earned Income Tax Credit, a program for low-income workers.

Republicans have already criticized the economic recovery package for including what they argue is wasteful spending and omitting tax cuts for wealthier people and businesses they say are needed to jump-start the anemic economy.

Not a single Republican voted for an $819 billion version of the plan when it passed the House on Wednesday.

GOP senators voiced their concerns at a midday news conference.

Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., criticized the tax credit — which would go to millions of Americans who don't make enough money to pay federal income taxes — as insufficient to stimulate the economy.

"Calling a rebate to people who don't pay income taxes a tax cut doesn't make it a tax cut," Kyl said.

(This version CORRECTS Corrects to reflect that Social Security numbers are required to claim tax credit, ADDS Democratic response. Moving on general news and financial services.)

snathan
01-29-2009, 09:49 PM
Please contact your Congressmen/senator on this. Make sure this time we are getting the stimulus...We are not illegal and we do not need to give up our rights.


Also don’t forget to call our savior Zoe Lofgren. If you couldn’t call please visit and write to her in this web site (this works only for her connstituents).


http://lofgren.house.gov/

San jose office - 408-271-8700
D.C Office - 202-225-3072

insbaby
01-29-2009, 11:32 PM
Illegal immigrants without Social Security numbers could not get tax credits under the $800billion-plus economic stimulus package


The only group affected will be the one having dependants without SSN. I am sure people who got EAD, must have got SSN too.

PresidentO
01-30-2009, 12:55 AM
The only group affected will be the one having dependants without SSN. I am sure people who got EAD, must have got SSN too.

These tax breaks will make it directly into our paycheck every month/bi weekly. If W-4 is up to date, you get them. We dont put the ITIN or SSN in the W-4 for dependents. Do we? This is unlike the tax rebate, which was a one time thing.

whitecollarslave
01-30-2009, 01:42 AM
Which stimulus bill? I am loosing track of them!

Can somebody post the bill number and possibly some details such as - where is it in the legislative process, the objectionable sections, etc. I can write to my local Representative as well as the Senators from my state. Need to know the details to compose a meaningful letter.
If anybody else has written a letter, please post here.
Thanks.

Totoro
01-30-2009, 07:53 AM
Which stimulus bill? I am loosing track of them!

Can somebody post the bill number and possibly some details such as - where is it in the legislative process, the objectionable sections, etc. I can write to my local Representative as well as the Senators from my state. Need to know the details to compose a meaningful letter.
If anybody else has written a letter, please post here.
Thanks.

I have written a letter, but it contains a lot of personal information that I would rather not post. Basically I outlined how we are already at a disadvantage because family members cannot work and that this rule specifically punishes families. I also noted how last year congress feigned ignorance about how the rule would affect legal immigrants, but the Democrats are continuing the same Republican discriminatory policies.

whitecollarslave
01-30-2009, 10:15 AM
What is the bill number? I thought there was a stimulus bill already passed by the House in the last day or two.

Totoro
01-30-2009, 10:35 AM
What is the bill number? I thought there was a stimulus bill already passed by the House in the last day or two.

The Bill is HR 1. It was originally written as follows:

Subtitle A—Making Work Pay
2 SEC. 1001. MAKING WORK PAY CREDIT.
3 (a) IN GENERAL.—Subpart C of part IV of sub4
chapter A of chapter 1 is amended by inserting after sec5
tion 36 the following new section:
6 ‘‘SEC. 36A. MAKING WORK PAY CREDIT.
7 ‘‘(a) ALLOWANCE OF CREDIT.—In the case of an eli8
gible individual, there shall be allowed as a credit against
9 the tax imposed by this subtitle for the taxable year an
10 amount equal to the lesser of—
11 ‘‘(1) 6.2 percent of earned income of the tax12
payer, or
13 ‘‘(2) $500 ($1,000 in the case of a joint re14
turn).
15 ‘‘(b) LIMITATION BASED ON MODIFIED ADJUSTED
16 GROSS INCOME.—
17 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The amount allowable as a
18 credit under subsection (a) (determined without re19
gard to this paragraph) for the taxable year shall be
20 reduced (but not below zero) by 2 percent of so
21 much of the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in22
come as exceeds $75,000 ($150,000 in the case of
23 a joint return).
24 ‘‘(2) MODIFIED ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME.—
25 For purposes of subparagraph (A), the term ‘modi-
VerDate 0ct 09 2002 22:48 Jan 23, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00254 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\HR1.XML HOLCPC
January 23, 2009 (10:48 p.m.)
F:\IBF\111\HR1.XML
f:\VHLC\012309\012309.236.xml (421348|6)
255
1 fied adjusted gross income’ means the adjusted
2 gross income of the taxpayer for the taxable year in3
creased by any amount excluded from gross income
4 under section 911, 931, or 933.
5 ‘‘(c) DEFINITIONS.—For purposes of this section—
6 ‘‘(1) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.—The term ‘eligible
7 individual’ means any individual other than—
8 ‘‘(A) any nonresident alien individual,
9 ‘‘(B) any individual with respect to whom
10 a deduction under section 151 is allowable to
11 another taxpayer for a taxable year beginning
12 in the calendar year in which the individual’s
13 taxable year begins, and
14 ‘‘(C) an estate or trust.
15 Such term shall not include any individual unless the
16 requirements of section 32(c)(1)(E) are met with re17
spect to such individual.


BUT they are revising it to include the same requirements as Bush's stimulus bill, which means they are revising it to include the "valid number" requirement to exclude ITIN families.

Full text of the original bill BEFORE the changes.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/HR1.pdf

aupadh
01-30-2009, 01:01 PM
These tax breaks will make it directly into our paycheck every month/bi weekly. If W-4 is up to date, you get them. We dont put the ITIN or SSN in the W-4 for dependents. Do we? This is unlike the tax rebate, which was a one time thing.

You will get the money but it is your responsibility to file correct returns for 2009. Now if the ITIN disqualification clause is applied this bill you will owe the money to IRS and have to pay it back.

gcdreamer05
01-30-2009, 01:14 PM
what stupidity is this, why should we pay back to IRS, the stimulus amount, we definetly need to raise our concern, we are legally working here and we need stimulus too...

Totoro
01-30-2009, 01:26 PM
You will get the money but it is your responsibility to file correct returns for 2009. Now if the ITIN disqualification clause is applied this bill you will owe the money to IRS and have to pay it back.

I warned about this slippery slope. They will continue to take away tax credits from immigrants until there are none left. What is next, child tax credits? Mortgage credits? I get the hint. The US government does not want us here, especially if you look different or have an accent.

a_tyagi26
01-30-2009, 01:51 PM
I warned about this slippery slope. They will continue to take away tax credits from immigrants until there are none left. What is next, child tax credits? Mortgage credits? I get the hint. The US government does not want us here, especially if you look different or have an accent.

I dont think its the US government. It is the anti immigrant groups who do not want us here. If Govt didn't want us here they can easily abolish h1b and any EB green card program.

For these tax rebates they do not even realise (or we are so small in numbers that they don't want to realise) that they are doing it. Problem is even illegal immigrants have ITIN and it is very understandable that they do not want to pay to those who did not contribute and are here illegaly. Now we are getting grinded because they have no way to find out who is illegal and who is not. Unless USCIS gets involved there is no way to find out. IRS does'nt know, employer does not care. Those who are illegal have other things to worry about than $500 in a year. I was upset I could not get my $1200 last year but than I just compromised thinking its like a tax that I have pay for as long as I am here.

Now the trade off is, should we just make some money and go back home or do we go through this painful process of green card? Choice is ultimately ours. For those who want to stay in this country all their life it might be worth fighting to remove all these unfair practices against colored or accented people. For others its might not be worth spending their life to earn a right to live in this country.

In coming months/years who knows how USD will react to economic crisis. Given the way Indian economy is growing, in few years it might not be worth it to come to US and go through it. Save loads of money for next few years, learn the best possible skills to be useful in India, and then live with your family and your people in India. In the meantime if you get green card then consider it as a back up or else leave it on fate. Fate brought you here and it must have good things in store for you as well. Enjoy the life.

Totoro
01-30-2009, 01:58 PM
In coming months/years who knows how USD will react to economic crisis. Given the way Indian economy is growing, in few years it might not be worth it to come to US and go through it.

The same is true in Canada. The economy is way ahead of the US. More and more, I am regretting my decision to move to the US. My employer has been no help at all. First they promise to help get a green card then find excuses not to. Time to move on, but that is never an easy thing to do.

designserve
01-30-2009, 06:17 PM
The trip to US is going way below our expectations....The only good thing seems to be that the kids seem to like it here...No doubt we make money,however,if things will go the way it is going on now then it is time to bid a big farewell and go back to India.If we have one year of recession,you get to lose money that you have saved over 3-5 years.Now,that is not we came here for!!!

balamasti
02-02-2009, 05:51 PM
We are in the same boat, and I came across this forum via google as well.

As per the below post today I tried apply SSN for my wife (H4) but I returned with no luck they are not accepting the evidence I have taken with me saying H4 are not eligible.

So we will loose the stimulus amount? This really is bad.

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=251468&postcount=75

Evidence of documents I have taken are

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/422/422-0104.htm and
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203510

I am happy to join the group to get something done. I will keep my eyes on the board for further action.

Thanks to everyone who is spearheading this.

gc28262
02-02-2009, 06:03 PM
While writing letters, we need to mention that non-resident aliens pay social security and medicare which we don't even get back unless we become a permanent resident.

Totoro
02-03-2009, 08:41 PM
While writing letters, we need to mention that non-resident aliens pay social security and medicare which we don't even get back unless we become a permanent resident.

I believe we can claim SS, even if we return to our home countries, if we contribute for at least 10 years. This is year 10 for me.

gconmymind
02-03-2009, 09:06 PM
I am not sure what the rule is for getting SS back. One thing for sure is you need to have earned 40 points (paid SS for 10 years. Work on F1 OPT is not counted as SS is not paid during that time).

- Are you eligible for SS if you go back to your home country after becoming a PR? (Likely not because you will lose your PR status if you stay in your home country for too long)

- Are you eligible for SS if you go back without becoming PR? (Likely not)

So, I think only if you become a US citizen and stay in US (or in some cases outside the US) you can collect SS.

Eligibility rules are not very clear to me. I have read the SS website material but still do not know for sure if I will get back SS money I have paid into the system.

Totoro
02-03-2009, 09:11 PM
There has been some positive traction on the stimulus bill, so don't give up hope. FAIR has issued a press release, but apparently the government isn't giving them much credit this time.

However, unless amended the CURRENT wording will exclude immigrants who file with an ITIN.

Both bills state that eligible individuals “shall not include any individual unless the requirements of Internal Revenue Code section 32(c)(1)(E) are met with respect to such individual.”

Section 32(c)(1)(E) states:

(E) Identification number requirement.--No credit shall be allowed under this section to an eligible individual who does not include on the return of tax for the taxable year--

(i) such individual's taxpayer identification number, and

(ii) if the individual is married (within the meaning of section 7703), the taxpayer identification number of such individual's spouse.

Section 32(m) defines the term “taxpayer identification number” for purposes of section 32(c)(1)(E):

(m) Identification numbers.--Solely for purposes of subsections (c)(1)(E) and (c)(3)(D), a taxpayer identification number means a social security number issued to an individual by the Social Security Administration (other than a social security number issued pursuant to clause (II) (or that portion of clause (III) that relates to clause (II)) of section 205(c)(2)(B)(i) of the Social Security Act).

Totoro
02-04-2009, 09:09 AM
If anyone needs documentation to send to their senator or representative, please let me know.

balamasti
02-04-2009, 12:31 PM
Hello Totoro,

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=19783&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1721#1

As per the above article it says "According to the official, the legislation will allow people who do not have Social Security numbers to qualify for the tax credits. Illegal aliens who are not eligible for Social Security numbers are allowed to file tax returns with an alternative number, called an individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN). The stimulus proposal that passed the House on Wednesday will allow anyone with an ITIN to qualify for the tax credits - $500 per worker and $1000 per couple - authorized in the bill. (The Associated Press, January 29, 2009)"

Is this a positive hope for all the person who have spouses with ITIN.

Totoro
02-04-2009, 01:53 PM
Hello Toroto,

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=19783&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1721#1

As per the above article it says "According to the official, the legislation will allow people who do not have Social Security numbers to qualify for the tax credits. Illegal aliens who are not eligible for Social Security numbers are allowed to file tax returns with an alternative number, called an individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN). The stimulus proposal that passed the House on Wednesday will allow anyone with an ITIN to qualify for the tax credits - $500 per worker and $1000 per couple - authorized in the bill. (The Associated Press, January 29, 2009)"

Is this a positive hope for all the person who have spouses with ITIN.

If you read my earlier email (repeated below), you will also note that it is FALSE. FAIR has no clue what they are talking about. The act as it stands requires BOTH spouses to have SSNs. Moreover, if you are married and file separately, you don't get it. Therefore, 3.5 million people will be disqualified from the stimulus in order to punish a few thousand illegal immigrants.

(m) Identification numbers.--Solely for purposes of subsections (c)(1)(E) and (c)(3)(D), a taxpayer identification number means a social security number issued to an individual by the Social Security Administration (other than a social security number issued pursuant to clause (II) (or that portion of clause (III) that relates to clause (II)) of section 205(c)(2)(B)(i) of the Social Security Act).

balamasti
02-04-2009, 03:35 PM
Thanks Totoro, hoping the best and waiting for further +ve update.

Totoro
02-12-2009, 07:32 PM
It appears that we were successful in getting the ITIN clause removed from the stimulus act. Hopefully they won't slip it back in. But so far, so good.

gclabor07
02-12-2009, 08:26 PM
That's a fantastic news for many people on H1 who have depedents on H4 and who haven't gotten a chance to file for I-485 yet.

balamasti
02-16-2009, 01:13 AM
I have a friend who came to USA in Jan, 2008 and he is still receiving $600 as stimulus amt and another friend who is filing jointly and his wife joined in Aug 2008 he is receiving $1200 just because they have SSNs.

This is totally ridiculous, even we are legal residents of 2007 not receiving any Stimulus payment still never resided in 2007 still they get stimulus pay because they have SSNs, what a senseless points.

Totoro
02-16-2009, 08:43 AM
I have a friend who came to USA in Jan, 2008 and he is still receiving $600 as stimulus amt and another friend who is filing jointly and his wife joined in Aug 2008 he is receiving $1200 just because they have SSNs.

This is totally ridiculous, even we are legal residents of 2007 not receiving any Stimulus payment still never resided in 2007 still they get stimulus pay because they have SSNs, what a senseless points.

We have been legal residents since the 1990s and we didn't get it.

gcdreamer05
02-16-2009, 11:35 AM
hi totoro but we will get it this year right, because now in the obama stimulus there is nothing mentioned for ITIN holders right, so if the spouse is on h4 and does not have SSN and has only ITIN, will we get stimulus benefit this yr ???

Totoro
02-16-2009, 12:12 PM
hi totoro but we will get it this year right, because now in the obama stimulus there is nothing mentioned for ITIN holders right, so if the spouse is on h4 and does not have SSN and has only ITIN, will we get stimulus benefit this yr ???

The original version of the Obama bill would have denied it to us again. However, thanks to our advocacy efforts, we were able to get that wording removed from the bill. As long as it is enacted according to its most recent wording, we WILL get the stimulus this time around. The last version read that as long as the head of household had an SSN, then the family is eligible, even if the spouse has an ITIN. Only those families who have no SSN at all cannot get it. If one person has an SSN, then EVERYONE qualifies who is on the same tax return.

balamasti
02-16-2009, 12:23 PM
Actually IRS this time giving the last years Stimulus amount as well right, so would we eligible for that too or only this year's stimulus bill.

gcdreamer05
02-16-2009, 12:45 PM
The original version of the Obama bill would have denied it to us again. However, thanks to our advocacy efforts, we were able to get that wording removed from the bill. As long as it is enacted according to its most recent wording, we WILL get the stimulus this time around. The last version read that as long as the head of household had an SSN, then the family is eligible, even if the spouse has an ITIN. Only those families who have no SSN at all cannot get it. If one person has an SSN, then EVERYONE qualifies who is on the same tax return.

Thanks totoro for takin time to reply, if i get back stimulus this year, i will surely contribute a small part of it to IV and also i want to give something back to you for your efforts taken to lobby, you would have surely spent so much time and effort and money for this, and this would just be a small help frm me thats all.

So do you know if this got passed, is there any link or some info that i can print out and show it to the HnR block guys when i do my taxes? like some one else posted can we claim last years missed stimulus ?

Totoro
02-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Thanks totoro for takin time to reply, if i get back stimulus this year, i will surely contribute a small part of it to IV and also i want to give something back to you for your efforts taken to lobby, you would have surely spent so much time and effort and money for this, and this would just be a small help frm me thats all.

So do you know if this got passed, is there any link or some info that i can print out and show it to the HnR block guys when i do my taxes? like some one else posted can we claim last years missed stimulus ?

I believe it will be automatically added to your payroll. As far as the text of the most recent version of the bill, it does not appear to be online yet.

Totoro
02-16-2009, 12:53 PM
I believe it will be automatically added to your payroll. As far as the text of the most recent version of the bill, it does not appear to be online yet.

The legislation applies only to the 2009 stimulus.

Totoro
02-16-2009, 08:46 PM
Both bills state that eligible individuals “shall not include any individual unless the requirements of Internal Revenue Code section 32(c)(1)(E) are met with respect to such individual.”

Section 32(c)(1)(E) states:

(E) Identification number requirement.--No credit shall be allowed under this section to an eligible individual who does not include on the return of tax for the taxable year--

(i) such individual's taxpayer identification number, and

(ii) if the individual is married (within the meaning of section 7703), the taxpayer identification number of such individual's spouse.

Section 32(m) defines the term “taxpayer identification number” for purposes of section 32(c)(1)(E):

(m) Identification numbers.--Solely for purposes of subsections (c)(1)(E) and (c)(3)(D), a taxpayer identification number means a social security number issued to an individual by the Social Security Administration (other than a social security number issued pursuant to clause (II) (or that portion of clause (III) that relates to clause (II)) of section 205(c)(2)(B)(i) of the Social Security Act).

The above has now been officially confirmed as stricken from the act. The new version which will be signed into law tomorrow by President Obama reads as following (key change in BOLD):

"(B) IDENTIFICATION NUMBER REQUIREMENT.-
Such term shall not include any individual
who does not include on the return of tax
for the taxable year-
"(i) such individual's social security
account number, and
"(ii) in the case of a joint return, the
social security account number of one of
the taxpayers on such return.

For purposes of the preceding sentence, the social security account number shall not include a TIN issued by the Internal Revenue Service.

http://www.house.gov/billtext/hr1_legtext_crb.pdf

The National Immigration Law Center and the office of Congresswoman Niki Tsongas were critical in getting the word to Congress, the Senate, and the White House. Without their efforts, this may never have happened.

sriha
03-17-2009, 10:46 AM
Hi
Thanks to the post for the info on ITIN and stimulus package. I read some where that this year the tax rate will be less as a part of economic stimulus package. From when will this come into effect. Please advice me.

With Regards
Sriha

balamasti
03-17-2009, 11:19 AM
I got my pay check last Saturday, I see there is a difference of $30 in the Federal tax difference, I am thinking this is it, but not sure.

gcnotfiledyet
03-17-2009, 11:30 AM
deleted

webm
03-17-2009, 08:37 PM
I got my pay check last Saturday, I see there is a difference of $30 in the Federal tax difference, I am thinking this is it, but not sure.

I believe this is supposed to start from April 1st,2009 onwards as per the news.