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LostInGCProcess
09-18-2008, 01:18 PM
Hi All waiting endlessly for GC,

I am like many of you, frustrated to the point that I started feeling that the whole GC process is a waste of time, money, effort...but its also a gamble, you hope it would come pretty soon but deep inside you also hear another voice that laughs at you and says, no it ain't gonna come soon.. I am an Indian and will be talking about Indian thoughts and mentality. Before that, I would like to know:

1) What exactly IV does by collecting funds?
2) How much it takes (in real dollars) to lobby in the congress? I need a guesstimate.

I know this forum is for all who is waiting for GC regardless of the nationality. But I want to talk about my countrymen(India).
The Indian community is second richest community in US only after the Jews, yet unable to raise money to fight for a common cause for all of us. Its really a shame on us. But, at the same time, we all know Indians are very skeptic when it comes to giving money to an organization that wants to help or fight for a cause. The main reason behind this, I think, is lack of transparency. We need to know how the money is managed, how it is being spent wisely, how much is being collected on a day to day basis, or monthly. Everything should be transparent. Only then I think there would be flood of cash flow.

Most of us are in the IT field and are surely making more then the average Joe. It may not hurt anybody to shed couple of grands if only they know for sure the money is being spent wisely, have a say in the decision process, like a vote, for example. I am not accusing anybody here, before anyone jumps into conclusion.

Its amazing when we want to build a temple, we can raise 5 Million dollars for the one in Atlanta. But on the other hand, we are all suffering because of the GC process which is causing so much of mental anguish, yet we turn a blind eye, and unable to unite.
How many of you just stopped worrying about GC? I am sure not many. But when it comes up for discussion, we all say, I forgot about it after applying..when it comes, it comes...but in reality, we all think about, each and every day.

We send Billions in remittance to India each year from US. Think about it. Is it too hard to lobby our case? Are we so poor to even hire a lobbying group? We are always divided on every other issue. Time for us to unite and speak.

Please pardon me if I have hurt anybody's feelings, I have no intention to cause any hard feelings to anyone.

snathan
09-18-2008, 01:28 PM
Hi All waiting endlessly for GC,

I am like many of you, frustrated to the point that I started feeling that the whole GC process is a waste of time, money, effort...but its also a gamble, you hope it would come pretty soon but deep inside you also hear another voice that laughs at you and says, no it ain't gonna come soon.. I am an Indian and will be talking about Indian thoughts and mentality. Before that, I would like to know:

1) What exactly IV does by collecting funds?
2) How much it takes (in real dollars) to lobby in the congress? I need a guesstimate.

I know this forum is for all who is waiting for GC regardless of the nationality. But I want to talk about my countrymen(India).
The Indian community is second richest community in US only after the Jews, yet unable to raise money to fight for a common cause for all of us. Its really a shame on us. But, at the same time, we all know Indians are very skeptic when it comes to giving money to an organization that wants to help or fight for a cause. The main reason behind this, I think, is lack of transparency. We need to know how the money is managed, how it is being spent wisely, how much is being collected on a day to day basis, or monthly. Everything should be transparent. Only then I think there would be flood of cash flow.

Most of us are in the IT field and are surely making more then the average Joe. It may not hurt anybody to shed couple of grands if only they know for sure the money is being spent wisely, have a say in the decision process, like a vote, for example. I am not accusing anybody here, before anyone jumps into conclusion.

Its amazing when we want to build a temple, we can raise 5 Million dollars for the one in Atlanta. But on the other hand, we are all suffering because of the GC process which is causing so much of mental anguish, yet we turn a blind eye, and unable to unite.
How many of you just stopped worrying about GC? I am sure not many. But when it comes up for discussion, we all say, I forgot about it after applying..when it comes, it comes...but in reality, we all think about, each and every day.

We send Billions in remittance to India each year from US. Think about it. Is it too hard to lobby our case? Are we so poor to even hire a lobbying group? We are always divided on every other issue. Time for us to unite and speak.

Please pardon me if I have hurt anybody's feelings, I have no intention to cause any hard feelings to anyone.

I just want to add one point. The richest Indian community....most of them are GC or USC and they dont care about our cuase or atleast not ready to donate. Its only people who are waiting for GC (with some exception) and H1B are donating. In that also most of them are hoping others will do it and we can get a free ride category.

akred
09-18-2008, 01:35 PM
We need to know how the money is managed, how it is being spent wisely, how much is being collected on a day to day basis, or monthly.

I don't know how feasible it is to disclose all this daily and monthly data, but IV's tax filings are available on GuideStar.org.

indio0617
09-18-2008, 01:48 PM
Hi All waiting endlessly for GC,

I am like many of you, frustrated to the point that I started feeling that the whole GC process is a waste of time, money, effort...but its also a gamble, you hope it would come pretty soon but deep inside you also hear another voice that laughs at you and says, no it ain't gonna come soon.. I am an Indian and will be talking about Indian thoughts and mentality. Before that, I would like to know:

1) What exactly IV does by collecting funds?
2) How much it takes (in real dollars) to lobby in the congress? I need a guesstimate.

I know this forum is for all who is waiting for GC regardless of the nationality. But I want to talk about my countrymen(India).
The Indian community is second richest community in US only after the Jews, yet unable to raise money to fight for a common cause for all of us. Its really a shame on us. But, at the same time, we all know Indians are very skeptic when it comes to giving money to an organization that wants to help or fight for a cause. The main reason behind this, I think, is lack of transparency. We need to know how the money is managed, how it is being spent wisely, how much is being collected on a day to day basis, or monthly. Everything should be transparent. Only then I think there would be flood of cash flow.

Most of us are in the IT field and are surely making more then the average Joe. It may not hurt anybody to shed couple of grands if only they know for sure the money is being spent wisely, have a say in the decision process, like a vote, for example. I am not accusing anybody here, before anyone jumps into conclusion.

Its amazing when we want to build a temple, we can raise 5 Million dollars for the one in Atlanta. But on the other hand, we are all suffering because of the GC process which is causing so much of mental anguish, yet we turn a blind eye, and unable to unite.
How many of you just stopped worrying about GC? I am sure not many. But when it comes up for discussion, we all say, I forgot about it after applying..when it comes, it comes...but in reality, we all think about, each and every day.

We send Billions in remittance to India each year from US. Think about it. Is it too hard to lobby our case? Are we so poor to even hire a lobbying group? We are always divided on every other issue. Time for us to unite and speak.

Please pardon me if I have hurt anybody's feelings, I have no intention to cause any hard feelings to anyone.
Such questions have been posed every now and then. IV as an organization is almost 3 years old now. Since it's inception we have constantly been barraged with questions from newcomers questioning our intentions regarding transparency et all. Kindly read IV's mission statement, operating guidelines etc thoroughly on the web site before you question each and every move.

We have time and again ad nauseum patiently explained every sceptic. Running a grassroots organization like this and getting to a stage where we are now implies incurring costs at every stage and level, be it retainers to our lobbyists and nuts and bolts like web server maintenance etc just to name a few.

walking_dude
09-18-2008, 01:56 PM
I guess the "Indian" mentality (general observation - I am not pointing any fingers here at any one), will never be satisfied with whatever answers are provided to these questions. I know my attempt is futile, yet what the heck!

1) What does IV do with the money?

Being a IRS tax-audited 501(c)(4) group only thing IV can spend money on is lobbying or advocacy. There is tonne of material on IV and google, on lobbying if one care to google it. If IV core spends money on anything else they face the risk of being audited by IRS and land in trouble.

Even after this explanation has been posted a hundred times on different IV forums, Indian mentality still isn't convinced that IV leaders are not blowing up the money in Bahamas! We Indians better Mel Gibson in creating and believing "conspiracy theories", don't we?

2) How much it takes (in real dollars) to lobby in the congress? I need a guesstimate.

There are no preset minimum or maxium limits to lobbying. More the better (results)

Just search OpenSecrets.org and compare how much IV is able to spend for lobbying vs how much money NumbersUSA, FAIR, CIS and other anti-immigrant orgs spend on lobbying. Why are we surprised that horses get discussed before us? Antis are outspending us by a wide margin. We have a long gap to bridge and catch up with them.

And yet IV collected only 5k when it requested members to donate just $5. We can surely donate that much without bothering about questions 1 and 2. Can't we?! So much for the "Indian" mentality!

insbaby
09-18-2008, 02:00 PM
We all know what is "Free" means and how we have been using "Free" from 50cents Walmart items to source code in Internet.

If you ask people to DONATE for their GC, 5 out of 100 will donate.

If you ask people to PAY for their GC, 90 out of 100 will pay.

The best way to do is, make it both payable and free members. As always, paid members have access to the core and free members have access to usual questions and answer forums.

UNITED WE PAY BEFORE UNITED WE STAND !!! - But it is not possible thru a free service.

LostInGCProcess
09-18-2008, 02:14 PM
Being a IRS tax-audited 504(c) group only thing IV can spend money on is lobbying or advocacy. There is tonne of material on IV and google, on lobbying if one care to google it. If IV core spends money on anything else they face the risk of being audited by IRS and land in trouble.

But you still did not answer the 'transparency' question. Is there a spread sheet that shows what the receivables are and what the expenses, expenditure etc are, audited by an independent agency. Tax returns does not give the complete picture. It only tells what the total income and the amount of tax paid.

LostInGCProcess
09-18-2008, 02:18 PM
I don't know how feasible it is to disclose all this daily and monthly data, but IV's tax filings are available on GuideStar.org.

I don't know why you question the feasibility? Tax returns does not say anything on expenditures.

485Mbe4001
09-18-2008, 02:20 PM
I urge you to read this before asking question about what IV does with funds or make any insuniations

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10633&highlight=aman+kapoor

NKR
09-18-2008, 02:20 PM
But you still did not answer the 'transparency' question. Is there a spread sheet that shows what the receivables are and what the expenses, expenditure etc are, audited by an independent agency. Tax returns does not give the complete picture. It only tells what the total income and the amount of tax paid.

But you still did not answer the 'transparency' question. Is there a spread sheet that shows what the receivables are and what the expenses, expenditure etc are, audited by an independent agency. Tax returns does not give the complete picture. It only tells what the total income and the amount of tax paid.

Seriously, donate 500$ and they will show the spreadsheet, I am surprised that you are still asking for transparency when it is so obvious that there is not much cash inflow. Are you so dumb?, are you a wolf in a sheep’s clothing, translated …“are you an anti immigrant pretending to be an immigrant?”

LostInGCProcess
09-18-2008, 02:38 PM
Seriously, donate 500$ and they will show the spreadsheet, I am surprised that you are still asking for transparency when it is so obvious that there is not much cash inflow. Are you so dumb?, are you a wolf in a sheep’s clothing, translated …“are you an anti immigrant pretending to be an immigrant?”

Who are you to talk to me like that? Did I in any way say anything wrong? I am a family man and I dare you not to use such cheap language when we are discussing something that's important to all of us. I am an Indian just like everybody else waiting to get the GC. What do you mean, I am anti-immigrant?

donate 500$ and they will show the spreadsheet
This line shows how 'matured' you are. Please refrain from using cheap language.

gaz
09-18-2008, 02:38 PM
Are you so dumb?, are you a wolf in a sheep’s clothing, translated …“are you an anti immigrant pretending to be an immigrant?”

Why does a simple request for information have to be turned into an attack like yours? It sounds rather immature.

I do agree about transparency with the original poster. I however don't agree with the request above for the excel sheet - thats ridiculous.

I do perceive the failure to raise funds as a question of trust. Before putting out hard earned $$$s one would definitely want to see who is managing it, and how. I'm not pointing fingers or trying to be offensive to anyone.

From what I've learned being here, and from other sources, IV has done a tremendous job in raising awareness and uniting the immigrant community (at least the Indian - don't see too many posts from anyone of any other nationality in the little time I've been here). However, the last few months I've seen little or no information of whats being done behind the scenes - and thats what is manifesting itself in these posts. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

JazzByTheBay
09-18-2008, 02:40 PM
I'm still a big supporter of the paid membership model - but apparently there are reasons to not go this route - both real and perceived.

jazz

We all know what is "Free" means and how we have been using "Free" from 50cents Walmart items to source code in Internet.

If you ask people to DONATE for their GC, 5 out of 100 will donate.

If you ask people to PAY for their GC, 90 out of 100 will pay.

The best way to do is, make it both payable and free members. As always, paid members have access to the core and free members have access to usual questions and answer forums.

UNITED WE PAY BEFORE UNITED WE STAND !!! - But it is not possible thru a free service.

rajeshalex
09-18-2008, 02:40 PM
Walking dude, Your reply was excellent.

May be is it possible to share the money received and spent on lobbying/major efforts from 2004-2007

Rajesh

walking_dude
09-18-2008, 02:42 PM
Dude, IRS has a special form for Advocacy groups. It's a different form than our personal tax returns. They are accountable for the full expenditure they are making. They have to show the bank statement if they get audited!

These antis collect more money than IV. Show me any link to similar spreadsheets posted by them. Forget antis, show me the links from ACLU, AILA etc. - which are also advocacy/lobbying orgs. None of these organizations want their opponents know how they are operating.

How difficult it is for the Indian mentality that prefers anonymity/privacy to understand this? Are you ready to post your personal details here? If you can't put your bank number here, don't expect IV to publish theirs on the internet.



But you still did not answer the 'transparency' question. Is there a spread sheet that shows what the receivables are and what the expenses, expenditure etc are, audited by an independent agency. Tax returns does not give the complete picture. It only tells what the total income and the amount of tax paid.

mpadapa
09-18-2008, 02:43 PM
Here is the link to the lobbying expenses done by IV

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=Immigration+Voice&year=2008
(http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=Immigration+Voice&year=2008)

There are plenty of info on this link. It doesn't matter how much transparency an organization shows, ppl will still be coming up such thread.

JazzByTheBay
09-18-2008, 02:47 PM
On the transparency part - this is not to say there's a slightest reason to suspect any wrongdoing - but only to prove a point, and as a way to openly ask for more contributions.

Again - with a paid membership model, these things are made available only to paying members.

Without a paid membership model, nobody really has a right to ask for any of these things. You contribute if you feel like.

Paid membership also allows easier communication - rather that insisting on a "high-touch" contact-your-State-chapter model, imho. Not discounting the importance of State chapters at all, nor the intent of IV leadership here. Just reiterating what I've been saying in the past.

Questions like these are bound to be raised time and again - maybe we should simply publish a Q&A on IV web site which provides some of the answers (rather than answering forum posts with a lot of noise each time someone feels curious... ).

Back to "what have we done in the past few months"? Contact your state chapter for more details.

jazz

Why does a simple request for information have to be turned into an attack like yours? It sounds rather immature.

I do agree about transparency with the original poster. I however don't agree with the request above for the excel sheet - thats ridiculous.

I do perceive the failure to raise funds as a question of trust. Before putting out hard earned $$$s one would definitely want to see who is managing it, and how. I'm not pointing fingers or trying to be offensive to anyone.

From what I've learned being here, and from other sources, IV has done a tremendous job in raising awareness and uniting the immigrant community (at least the Indian - don't see too many posts from anyone of any other nationality in the little time I've been here). However, the last few months I've seen little or no information of whats being done behind the scenes - and thats what is manifesting itself in these posts. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

NKR
09-18-2008, 02:49 PM
Who are you to talk to me like that? Did I in any way say anything wrong? I am a family man and I dare you not to use such cheap language when we are discussing something that's important to all of us. I am an Indian just like everybody else waiting to get the GC. What do you mean, I am anti-immigrant?


This line shows how 'matured' you are. Please refrain from using cheap language.

First and foremost, I will give you the benefit of doubt and for a moment will assume that you have donated money. You want that to be put to good use and you do not want others to come in your way. Fair enough..

Now, I am also waiting for my GC and I am frustrated with the wait, IV is fighting for my cause and I do not want others to come in my way. I am a family man too. Fair enough?

If you want spreadsheet, send the admin a pm or use the contact link and shoot them an email, based on the merit it could be entertained, I don’t know. Now you come here, apply brakes to our effort and ask for something and you call me cheap?.

Looks like you are a recent entrant to this mess. Just hope that you are not in for a long haul and more important support IV in whatever way you can. If you are not supporting then you have no right to question…

gaz
09-18-2008, 03:05 PM
Your post makes a lot of sense to me.

About the links posted today - not all of these were known to me. So thank you for the education. May I suggest making a permanent sticky or a single page (FAQs?) where all this information is posted for the benefit of the new comers/ dormant members.

After reading theses posts and others, it seems to me that there are basically four factors that prevent someone from contributing here (monetarily):
1) financial - can't afford to contribute
2) fear - scared to contribute - "what if it affects my green card"
3) information - who, why, what and how applied to contributions
4) selfishness - let the others contribute.

IV can't do anything about 1 and 4. But 2 and 3 can be addressed by maybe having a section that is clearly visible on the home page that answers these questions (maybe a link just below "contribute" that says "More Information" and leads to a FAQ page?)

Thank you!


On the transparency part - this is not to say there's a slightest reason to suspect any wrongdoing - but only to prove a point, and as a way to openly ask for more contributions.

Again - with a paid membership model, these things are made available only to paying members.

Without a paid membership model, nobody really has a right to ask for any of these things. You contribute if you feel like.

Paid membership also allows easier communication - rather that insisting on a "high-touch" contact-your-State-chapter model, imho. Not discounting the importance of State chapters at all, nor the intent of IV leadership here. Just reiterating what I've been saying in the past.

Questions like these are bound to be raised time and again - maybe we should simply publish a Q&A on IV web site which provides some of the answers (rather than answering forum posts with a lot of noise each time someone feels curious... ).

Back to "what have we done in the past few months"? Contact your state chapter for more details.

jazz

bondgoli007
09-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Hi All waiting endlessly for GC,

I am like many of you, frustrated to the point that I started feeling that the whole GC process is a waste of time, money, effort...but its also a gamble, you hope it would come pretty soon but deep inside you also hear another voice that laughs at you and says, no it ain't gonna come soon.. I am an Indian and will be talking about Indian thoughts and mentality. Before that, I would like to know:

1) What exactly IV does by collecting funds?
2) How much it takes (in real dollars) to lobby in the congress? I need a guesstimate.

I know this forum is for all who is waiting for GC regardless of the nationality. But I want to talk about my countrymen(India).
The Indian community is second richest community in US only after the Jews, yet unable to raise money to fight for a common cause for all of us. Its really a shame on us. But, at the same time, we all know Indians are very skeptic when it comes to giving money to an organization that wants to help or fight for a cause. The main reason behind this, I think, is lack of transparency. We need to know how the money is managed, how it is being spent wisely, how much is being collected on a day to day basis, or monthly. Everything should be transparent. Only then I think there would be flood of cash flow.

Most of us are in the IT field and are surely making more then the average Joe. It may not hurt anybody to shed couple of grands if only they know for sure the money is being spent wisely, have a say in the decision process, like a vote, for example. I am not accusing anybody here, before anyone jumps into conclusion.

Its amazing when we want to build a temple, we can raise 5 Million dollars for the one in Atlanta. But on the other hand, we are all suffering because of the GC process which is causing so much of mental anguish, yet we turn a blind eye, and unable to unite.
How many of you just stopped worrying about GC? I am sure not many. But when it comes up for discussion, we all say, I forgot about it after applying..when it comes, it comes...but in reality, we all think about, each and every day.

We send Billions in remittance to India each year from US. Think about it. Is it too hard to lobby our case? Are we so poor to even hire a lobbying group? We are always divided on every other issue. Time for us to unite and speak.

Please pardon me if I have hurt anybody's feelings, I have no intention to cause any hard feelings to anyone.
I was curious if you attempted to ask these questions first with your State Chapter leader and/or approach IV core for this information?

Your request (and I hope you agree it needs to be a request) is not without merit but again as walking dude and nkr (albeit a bit coarsely) tried to explain, there are factors that are in play in providing this information on demand and in public.

I am equally frustrated with the GC delay but by bringing this topic in public, I am really curious to understand what outcome are you expecting.

chi_shark
09-18-2008, 03:14 PM
just to add one more factor from my personal experience: apathy aka desolation. just bored so come to forum to entertain myself and just learn about whats going on... dont believe that i can change the status.

Your post makes a lot of sense to me.

About the links posted today - not all of these were known to me. So thank you for the education. May I suggest making a permanent sticky or a single page (FAQs?) where all this information is posted for the benefit of the new comers/ dormant members.

After reading theses posts and others, it seems to me that there are basically four factors that prevent someone from contributing here (monetarily):
1) financial - can't afford to contribute
2) fear - scared to contribute - "what if it affects my green card"
3) information - who, why, what and how applied to contributions
4) selfishness - let the others contribute.

IV can't do anything about 1 and 4. But 2 and 3 can be addressed by maybe having a section that is clearly visible on the home page that answers these questions (maybe a link just below "contribute" that says "More Information" and leads to a FAQ page?)

Thank you!

LostInGCProcess
09-18-2008, 03:15 PM
I was curious if you attempted to ask these questions first with your State Chapter leader and/or approach IV core for this information?

Your request (and I hope you agree it needs to be a request) is not without merit but again as walking dude and nkr (albeit a bit coarsely) tried to explain, there are factors that are in play in providing this information on demand and in public.

I am equally frustrated with the GC delay but by bringing this topic in public, I am really curious to understand what outcome are you expecting.

My whole point was, I am so frustrated in the process, and our inability to collect even couple of million dollars, even though we are one of the richest community in US. So, I was thinking maybe, most of the folks are just apprehensive about the way the money is spent, so if there comes some level of transparency, maybe lot more would be happy to contribute. That's all was my intention....please delete my post. I don't want to cause any further rift here.
Apologize for all the misunderstanding.

chi_shark
09-18-2008, 03:22 PM
folks, the major problem is that a good cure to the system here benefits only the sick ones... the healthy people have no benefit due to the cure. there was a time when the likes of microsoft and ibm could benefit from hi tech immigration (you know what i mean). now, they are actually being punished on the markets for having too many US employees... case in point HPEDS (HP+EDS). http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/09/15/hp-to-cut-24600-jobs/. they are cutting so that they can have a more global workforce (i.e. sourced from cheaper locations).

so, go figure...

mpadapa
09-18-2008, 03:27 PM
Just to contrast, here is the link for numbersusa

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=NumbersUSA.com&year=2008

As U can see the anti's outspend IV by miles. No wonder horses get discussed ahead of "high-skilled" aliens

The least everyone can do is to participate in the new call campaign
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21579


Here is the link to the lobbying expenses done by IV

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=Immigration+Voice&year=2008
(http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=Immigration+Voice&year=2008)

There are plenty of info on this link. It doesn't matter how much transparency an organization shows, ppl will still be coming up such thread.

akred
09-18-2008, 03:28 PM
There is something that can be done. And that is to set up a 501 c(3) counterpart to the existing 501 c(4) organization so that contributions can be tax deductible and the organization becomes eligible for matching contributions.

This is how NumbersUSA is organized. NumbersUSA Action Inc. is the 501 c(4) organization and they collected ~1.2 million last year while NumbersUSA Education and Research Foundation is the 501 c(3) counterpart which collected ~4.4 million last year. The 501 c(3) organization is used to pay salaries for their employees and advertising expenses while the 501 c(4) is used for lobbying expenses.