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View Full Version : Seriously....what is going on here??


indigokiwi
03-24-2011, 12:43 PM
Hundreds of members visit this website every day. I am just really surprised that we are having trouble getting people to participate in Advocacy Days and raising $50,000. It seems like a no-brainer to me to participate in whatever way possible.

There have been around 250 contributions so far. Some members have contributed a few hundred dollars each, with a couple of members contributing $500+ each, and some have pledged $100 for every $2500 or $5000 raised, just to help try and reach the target. They wouldn't have had to put in so much if everyone else chipped in.

I am really curious to know why you are not getting more involved and at least contributing financially to this effort if you cannot attend the Advocacy days. You are the beneficiary. What is holding you back from trying to do something tangible to help yourself, your family and your friends? Are you seriously going to tell me that it's not even worth $50 to you?

This is the best shot we are going to have in the next two years.

I am not doing this for IV. I'm doing this for myself, my brother and my friends stuck in the green card mess.

pd052009
03-24-2011, 12:54 PM
Looks like most of the people simply think there are others who can take care of this for me. Guys.. When a promotion comes, most of us think/say.. why not me?

Why don't we have the same thought of "why not me?" when it comes to advocacy. Think about it for a moment and participate.

planets
03-24-2011, 01:10 PM
Why don't we display all members list who paid and who not paid.

Most of People are trying to earn without sweat.

LONGGCQUE
03-24-2011, 02:30 PM
People are going to run after me for my comments but this is what i have to say.

Most of the visitors to IV take it for granted, they will come and see/search info and move on. No one is forcing them to pay a single penny for using a resource like IV. Its an attitude that someone will go to DC for ME, someone will pay the money for ME and if something happend I will also take benefit. Unfortunately thats what i see around.

Ideally we need to contribute - either by going to DC or by financial means. I did my part by contributing a few dollars(equals to 2 lunch outings for my family), cant force others but would expect people to do it one way or the other. Finally its our choice to do something for our own good or just keep sitting in a corner waiting for someone to do something for us.

Agree with indogokiwi and others. Whoever has consumed IV resources for anything like prediction thread or getting info from lawyers etc should chip in(dont get flamed, its just a request).

Since knowing of IV, I have contributed for these campaigns and will do in future too.

SGP
03-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Can't agree less with you two guys.
__________________
Deadline = April 30th, 2011
Goal = 5000 votes on survey in I-485 filing w/o current PD thread. Based on response by 04/30/2011 - IV will decide whether to even proceed with initiative or not.
Actions - 1) Vote on survey.
2)Email ivcoordinator@gmail.com with PD, ph#,email & subject "I485 filing impacted”,
3)Print/Circulate Fliers and spread FB, wiki link (see "support thread" for more details)


Hundreds of members visit this website every day. I am just really surprised that we are having trouble getting people to participate in Advocacy Days and raising $50,000. It seems like a no-brainer to me to participate in whatever way possible.

There have been around 250 contributions so far. Some members have contributed a few hundred dollars each, with a couple of members contributing $500+ each, and some have pledged $100 for every $2500 or $5000 raised, just to help try and reach the target. They wouldn't have had to put in so much if everyone else chipped in.

I am really curious to know why you are not getting more involved and at least contributing financially to this effort if you cannot attend the Advocacy days. You are the beneficiary. What is holding you back from trying to do something tangible to help yourself, your family and your friends? Are you seriously going to tell me that it's not even worth $50 to you?

This is the best shot we are going to have in the next two years.

I am not doing this for IV. I'm doing this for myself, my brother and my friends stuck in the green card mess.

People are going to run after me for my comments but this is what i have to say.

Most of the visitors to IV take it for granted, they will come and see/search info and move on. No one is forcing them to pay a single penny for using a resource like IV. Its an attitude that someone will go to DC for ME, someone will pay the money for ME and if something happend I will also take benefit. Unfortunately thats what i see around.

Ideally we need to contribute - either by going to DC or by financial means. I did my part by contributing a few dollars(equals to 2 lunch outings for my family), cant force others but would expect people to do it one way or the other. Finally its our choice to do something for our own good or just keep sitting in a corner waiting for someone to do something for us.

Agree with indogokiwi and others. Whoever has consumed IV resources for anything like prediction thread or getting info from lawyers etc should chip in(dont get flamed, its just a request).

Since knowing of IV, I have contributed for these campaigns and will do in future too.

PlainSpeak
03-24-2011, 02:47 PM
Me toooo :D

designserve
03-24-2011, 03:54 PM
People like me are sitting on the fence. I wouldn't regret even if I don't get a GC at all...Sometimes, I feel that I am just waiting for any chance to go back to India... It is just the consideration of continuity in life for the family that really is driving me every day... It doesn't mean I will feel bad if I get the GC. The wait is simply not worth it. been living in multiple countries for the past 13 years... US is one another country for me.... That is just my case. I visit the forum and post in here because I can just monitor the situation... It is like monitoring my stocks, news on Libya,World cup, etc. Don't get me wrong guys... I wanted to share my facts.

bitzbytz
03-24-2011, 04:00 PM
Contribute for what. I would , If I am told for what we are contributing. What are the real faces.

I am not one of those who can go advocate at places as I do not have luxury of it. I respect people who are going beyond their daily schedule and advocating, but what are the goals.



I however want to contribute not *donate* if I know what am I going after.

For any advise the standard answer we get is - Consult your immigration lawyer.

I dont want to dampen the interests of others who are ready to contribute. Tell me few reasons and I can contribute a decent amount.

May be we should make this paid. and then I will find my reason and I will pay to join

bugsbunny
03-24-2011, 04:16 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm not seeing the value.

So...when I see them advocating for things that will make a difference, I might consider contributing at that time.

JeffDG What is important to you and what would you like IV to be advocating for?

I believe IV should take this very seriously
I do believe all of IV's causes are good
but i rarely see a vote on what IV plans to advocate for

Perhaps having a list of issues displayed somewhere for all to see would be beneficial
Regular polls would also be good
When people see a cause that they truly care about being taken up...the contributions will automatically increase

For a long time i was reluctant to contribute cause i had no idea what issues IV takes up when it plans Advocacy events

Jeff contributing towards IV is like contributing to any non-profit, you can never be truly sure how and where your money will be utilized. As long as you share the same greater cause, it should not stop you from making atleast minimal contributions.

dummgelauft
03-24-2011, 04:34 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm not seeing the value.

I see IV right now going off and tilting at windmills that will have little effect. Stuff like the I-485 without current PD for example, will serve to both alleviate the immediate issue of backlog, and make those responsible less likely to actually fix the problem, all while creating a permanent under-class of immigrants who will spend decades waiting for their permanent status.

So...when I see them advocating for things that will make a difference, I might consider contributing at that time.

Dear Sir, You are EB1C, chargeable to CANADA..you should have your greencard sooner than one can say Mississipi..or Schenectady..or Connecticut...or whatever.

I am not accusing you of apathy, but you may not be able to understand the anxiety, pain and frustration that a person who is an EB3 or even EB2 chargeable to India or China. People in such a situation will tend to grasp at the straws.... if not the whole bale of hay.

h1techSlave
03-24-2011, 04:45 PM
close all threads except the ones for Advocacy - until the Advocacy is over.

vbkris77
03-24-2011, 05:06 PM
Contribute for what. I would , If I am told for what we are contributing. What are the real faces.

I am not one of those who can go advocate at places as I do not have luxury of it. I respect people who are going beyond their daily schedule and advocating, but what are the goals.



I however want to contribute not *donate* if I know what am I going after.

For any advise the standard answer we get is - Consult your immigration lawyer.

I dont want to dampen the interests of others who are ready to contribute. Tell me few reasons and I can contribute a decent amount.

May be we should make this paid. and then I will find my reason and I will pay to join

For your PD and EB category, you are able to enjoy 4 years of AOS benefits just because of IV. You will soon get your GC, only because of IVs continuous fight with CIS.. But hey you won't see it because it all happens behind the scene and someone else is picking your tab...

pappu
03-24-2011, 05:16 PM
For your PD and EB category, you are able to enjoy 4 years of AOS benefits just because of IV. You will soon get your GC, only because of IVs continuous fight with CIS.. But hey you won't see it because it all happens behind the scene and someone else is picking your tab...

Such people come running to IV if they get a denial/ NOID and lose hope. Rt. now they are busy tracking their cases, predicting and hoping to be current in a month or two. People who feel the pain of retrogression value what we do for them.

bitzbytz
03-24-2011, 05:23 PM
For your PD and EB category, you are able to enjoy 4 years of AOS benefits just because of IV. You will soon get your GC, only because of IVs continuous fight with CIS.. But hey you won't see it because it all happens behind the scene and someone else is picking your tab...

Yeah Right. Now you are going to tell me, my higher education is due to IV, me coming to US is due to IV, me getting bachelors, masters, phd is due to IV, me getting H1 B visa approval and stamping, My getting EB 2 filed approved is caz of IV. , labor approval, 2 yr eads, medical appointments are all due to IV. Get real.

When I was in trouble, I threw some money at Ms Sheela (not Sheela from sheela ki jawani) and voila , I had solution for my problems. IF we are legal here, we need to be afraid of anything, else glad to go back home.

Dude, understand that I am a friend not an enemy to IV advocacy. I just said, for me to contribute, I should feel that IV made an impact or will make an impact for my cause. Which I dont feel right now.

Make me believe and I am in. Until then keep trying.

If you still want to bark , well you can pick some tree as I just ignored this debate.

goel_ar
03-24-2011, 05:48 PM
I respect bitzbytz's view. IMHO, Pappu's post shows too much arrogance in IV.
Btw, I have donated $100 towards advocacy.
Yeah Right. Now you are going to tell me, my higher education is due to IV, me coming to US is due to IV, me getting bachelors, masters, phd is due to IV, me getting H1 B visa approval and stamping, My getting EB 2 filed approved is caz of IV. , labor approval, 2 yr eads, medical appointments are all due to IV. Get real.

When I was in trouble, I threw some money at Ms Sheela (not Sheela from sheela ki jawani) and voila , I had solution for my problems. IF we are legal here, we need to be afraid of anything, else glad to go back home.

Dude, understand that I am a friend not an enemy to IV advocacy. I just said, for me to contribute, I should feel that IV made an impact or will make an impact for my cause. Which I dont feel right now.

Make me believe and I am in. Until then keep trying.

If you still want to bark , well you can pick some tree as I just ignored this debate.

vbkris77
03-24-2011, 05:55 PM
I never said all this crap. you could be what you are.. There are probably more qualified people who didn't get a chance to get the same f***ng benefits you enjoy.. IV is trying to help them.. It is impossible to show that because of your 100$ bill, you GC is printed 20 sec faster.. If you don't believe in what is going on in IV, take a hike..



Yeah Right. Now you are going to tell me, my higher education is due to IV, me coming to US is due to IV, me getting bachelors, masters, phd is due to IV, me getting H1 B visa approval and stamping, My getting EB 2 filed approved is caz of IV. , labor approval, 2 yr eads, medical appointments are all due to IV. Get real.

When I was in trouble, I threw some money at Ms Sheela (not Sheela from sheela ki jawani) and voila , I had solution for my problems. IF we are legal here, we need to be afraid of anything, else glad to go back home.

Dude, understand that I am a friend not an enemy to IV advocacy. I just said, for me to contribute, I should feel that IV made an impact or will make an impact for my cause. Which I dont feel right now.

Make me believe and I am in. Until then keep trying.

If you still want to bark , well you can pick some tree as I just ignored this debate.

insbaby
03-24-2011, 06:28 PM
I never said all this crap. you could be what you are.. There are probably more qualified people who didn't get a chance to get the same f***ng benefits you enjoy.. IV is trying to help them.. It is impossible to show that because of your 100$ bill, you GC is printed 20 sec faster.. If you don't believe in what is going on in IV, take a hike..

Yelling will not make anyone to donate.

If organizations like AILA, IV did not raise questions, who could have the potential to change a revocation memo issued from Washington DC?

Like thousands of applicants who did not donate, I was a beneficiary of July 2007 fiasco.

Whether others believe it or not, I realized that there was something IV did.

Eventually I started the donations.

Though very negligible against others who make $300, $500 frequently, I am not afraid of making them regularly.

It is not for what IV is going to do for me, but for what they have already done.

So, if someone has not realized the benefits, explain them. Yelling equally makes all of us in the same plane.

StarSun
03-24-2011, 06:29 PM
Contribute for what. I would , If I am told for what we are contributing. What are the real faces.

Don't contribute, come to DC and you will find & know all the faces behind IV

I am not one of those who can go advocate at places as I do not have luxury of it. I respect people who are going beyond their daily schedule and advocating, but what are the goals.

It is certainly not because I/others want to see the buildings that we are asking people to come to DC - and the people going in to the meetings will be advocating for their and your green card issues (whether you want it or not - these efforts will benefit everyone stuck in the EB backlogs including you!). Getting the green card backlogs cleared is the goal - and it is deplorable that after being a member since 2007, you do not know this.

I have been coordinating with IV for the past 2 years now and I have never had members (majority) - including you - once trying to find a way of helping in this cause. IV has had the campaign of meeting with lawmakers in their local districts at a time that is convenient for each member - IN THEIR OWN LOCAL TOWNS - and I can count my fingers and toes on how many have actually done it.

The sad part is that you come from a state that was successful in raising $1500 from members (in addition to the contributions to IV and air mile donations) and instrumental in sending 5 members fully funded to DC + 2 green card holders + 2 members buying their own tickets. The chapter is coming together in these circumstances and you are clueless....... of what is happening within your own state - Joining the chapter neither costs money nor effort, just the benefit of knowing what is happening within your state!

I however want to contribute not *donate* if I know what am I going after.

Contribute or Donate - if it is money - it is one and the same practically. I am not sure what you are going after, but I can tell you what IV is going after - clearing the EB backlogs.

For any advise the standard answer we get is - Consult your immigration lawyer.

We actually provide 4 reputed lawyers (Ari Sauer and Greg Siskind of VisaLaw.com, Raj Iyer of Offices of Carl Shusterman, and Prashanthi Reddy of Reddyesq) with whom you can get your questions answered for free 3 Thursdays in a month! Do you know about the conference calls that is done every week with attorneys - check it out in the members forum if you were unaware of it!

I dont want to dampen the interests of others who are ready to contribute. Tell me few reasons and I can contribute a decent amount.

Nobody in this forum or elsewhere said, "Mr/Ms bitzbytz - please donate the money to IV" And certainly no one is forcing you to do it either. There are requests for contributions from many members - because they believe in the cause - and their audience are fellow believers.

May be we should make this paid. and then I will find my reason and I will pay to join

We are happy with people who believe in the cause and want to donate. You are most welcome to use IV for free!


My answers are in Red.

bitzbytz
03-24-2011, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the answers and clarifications. I will do what I can and when I can.

I am surprised that there are 4 lawyers and you have free calls for all needy members. This is what I am talking about. I think it should be made more clear on what are the benefits of memberss and people will contribute before asking. Not every one is a crook and try to get info for free.

Yes you are right, No one asked me, but no one asked you for a response either. Appreciate it though.

If some one request, i am all up for it, if you demand like pappu, you aint gonna get it.

peace out.

bitzbytz
03-24-2011, 06:45 PM
I never said all this crap. you could be what you are.. There are probably more qualified people who didn't get a chance to get the same f***ng benefits you enjoy.. IV is trying to help them.. It is impossible to show that because of your 100$ bill, you GC is printed 20 sec faster.. If you don't believe in what is going on in IV, take a hike..

take a chill pill and relax

smuggymba
03-24-2011, 09:03 PM
Yeah Right. Now you are going to tell me, my higher education is due to IV, me coming to US is due to IV, me getting bachelors, masters, phd is due to IV, me getting H1 B visa approval and stamping, My getting EB 2 filed approved is caz of IV. , labor approval, 2 yr eads, medical appointments are all due to IV. Get real.

When I was in trouble, I threw some money at Ms Sheela (not Sheela from sheela ki jawani) and voila , I had solution for my problems. IF we are legal here, we need to be afraid of anything, else glad to go back home.

Dude, understand that I am a friend not an enemy to IV advocacy. I just said, for me to contribute, I should feel that IV made an impact or will make an impact for my cause. Which I dont feel right now.

Make me believe and I am in. Until then keep trying.

If you still want to bark , well you can pick some tree as I just ignored this debate.

If by "impact" you mean "being current" - that's not easy. Will you pay up only if IV helped you be "current".

Removing backlog is not easy...don't wait for the results to contribute. Contribute to get results.

planets
03-24-2011, 10:12 PM
Come on guys......

Stop arguing. Leave your ego. If we keep arguing and yelling, nothing is going to happen.

We should make this event successfully. If we make this event successful, everyone will be happy. Particularly our family will be happy. We should realize ourself.

We are not going to lose anything just donating / contributing $25 - $50.

If we get benefits without any efforts, definitely we can not enjoy.

Please give your hands. We all go together.

ravi98
03-25-2011, 01:04 AM
I like the food from a particular restaurant.
- I go there often, enjoy the food, and recommend it to my friends.

I don't like the food from a particular restaurant.
- I don't go there at all, even when I am hungry and I will tell my bad food experience to my friends - either convince them not to go there or let them decide on their choice.

Reasonable? Logical? Practical?

I like what IV has done, what IV is doing currently.
- I will visit the site often, get the information I want/need and recommend it to my friends

I don't like what IV has done, or what it is doing currently.
- I will not visit the site, as it is a waste of time and I will tell my bad experience to my friends - either convince them to leave IV or let them decide on their choice.

Reasonable? Logical? Practical?

Now, I don't like a particular restaurant, they serve bad food, bad customer service, waste of money, time - BUT I still go to the restaurant, eat the bad food, complain of the customer service, spend money knowing very well I am not getting its worth, and then stand up in the middle of this same restaurant floor and tell people this restaurant is not good (while eating) and tell my friends not to go to this restaurant (while I continue to go).

Reasonable? Logical? Practical? Or Unreasonable? Illogical? Impractical? - I would say second choice.

Let's do the same comparison:
I don't like what IV has done, nor what it is doing currently, I don't believe in anything and therefore will not participate, volunteer or contribute - BUT, I still come to IV, surf the threads, get the information I need, complain about undemocratic ways of the IV while having never made an attempt to find out more details, yet, coming on to the forums to post about why I cannot participate, volunteer and contribute. Demanding/Questioning about democratic principles while not understanding the very basis of democracy - PARTICIPATION.

Reasonable? Logical? Practical? Or Unreasonable? Illogical? Impractical? - I would say second choice.

What do you as a reasonable, logical and practical person think?

StarSun
03-25-2011, 01:47 AM
I respect bitzbytz's view. IMHO, Pappu's post shows too much arrogance in IV.
Btw, I have donated $100 towards advocacy.

Shows arrogance or frustration? Flip side of the same coin!

IV really needs people from KY, KS, TN, UT, AL, CO, AR - please help convince a friend or family from these states. Thanks.

bitzbytz
03-25-2011, 07:36 AM
my my my...arrogance. funny though.

bitzbytz
03-25-2011, 07:45 AM
I like the food from a particular restaurant.
- I go there often, enjoy the food, and recommend it to my friends.

I don't like the food from a particular restaurant.
- I don't go there at all, even when I am hungry and I will tell my bad food experience to my friends - either convince them not to go there or let them decide on their choice.

Reasonable? Logical? Practical?

I like what IV has done, what IV is doing currently.
- I will visit the site often, get the information I want/need and recommend it to my friends

I don't like what IV has done, or what it is doing currently.
- I will not visit the site, as it is a waste of time and I will tell my bad experience to my friends - either convince them to leave IV or let them decide on their choice.

Reasonable? Logical? Practical?

Now, I don't like a particular restaurant, they serve bad food, bad customer service, waste of money, time - BUT I still go to the restaurant, eat the bad food, complain of the customer service, spend money knowing very well I am not getting its worth, and then stand up in the middle of this same restaurant floor and tell people this restaurant is not good (while eating) and tell my friends not to go to this restaurant (while I continue to go).

Reasonable? Logical? Practical? Or Unreasonable? Illogical? Impractical? - I would say second choice.



What do you as a reasonable, logical and practical person think?

believers or non believers.

If for a social and noble cause, I can *donate*. If asked for what IV did, I cannot *participate*. if explained what we can change and with transparency and patience while eating a humble pie, i can *participate* *contribute* *put IV on a map* *market* Well thats just my view.

Nice analogy but note that IV for me is like samplers. If I like what is being offered, I would donate. If I want some thing to be given as sampler, I will buy, contribute and market it. I cannot donate for samplers which were given before I knew abt it, even though some good people got benefited.

indigokiwi
03-25-2011, 08:08 AM
Great post, ravi98. Also, I totally agree with smuggymba.

There are some members like bitzbytz who have already filed their I-485 in 2007 and their priority date is right around the corner. They've only got a couple of months to go.

But then there are the rest of us who have a much longer wait. My brother, for instance, is looking at 5 or 6 years to get his green card. I got put through a Technology Alert List (TAL) check last time I went to apply for my visa, got stuck for close to 3 months, and will likely have to go through screening every single time I apply for a visa. Needless to say, it is a major pain.

I am sure there are more members like me who are going through similar issues or who have to wait years for a green card. If we don't lobby for changes, who is going to do it for us? It's going to be very difficult to get anything done with the mentality that 'I will participate / contribute if I see results'. ' It's highly unlikely that it is going to be successful, so what's the point?' Now, I'm not naive or stupid. I know that reducing the EB backlog is a very difficult task. However, if we don't start doing something about it, it's going to stay like this forever or get even worse. It's not going to randomly change out of the blue.

If you are happy with the status quo, that's fine. Like for example, if your green card is right around the corner like bitzbtyz, or you really don't mind whether you get a gc or not like designserve, that's fine. However, if it's important to you like it is to me, then we have to DO SOMETHING. No one is going to do it for us. We are it. By all means, don't participate / contribute to IV if it doesn't serve your purpose. However, if it does serve your purpose, or if you have family or dear friends that could benefit from EB backlog reduction, then I am requesting you to help by participating in Advocacy days and/or contributing.

goel_ar
03-25-2011, 08:57 AM
Such people come running to IV if they get a denial/ NOID and lose hope. -i don't think it is frustration.
I don't think IV is doing anything wrong. I am aware of IV only doing 'some' thing for EB2.

But lot people take IV as one forum (not org) to discuss their matters. Lot of people come into IV as an alternative to other forums - t r a c k i t t , lawyers forums etc. They might not believe in what is IV doing for 'faster GCs' . IV should either
a) try to make them believe in them
b) or leave them alone & let use the forums
c) or allow only people - who believe in IV.

If you keep going to say 20k people are members & everyone should donate - then it is wrong.
As per pappu - when people come running to IV & blah. blah... .... then ask them for donation if their case gets resolved.. did pappu try to reach out to them for donations.

I don't want to argue - but respect everyone's belief.
Pappu belief in IV does not equal to 'everyone's belief in IV' - it is simple as that.


Also - what is history between t t it & IV? I posted i-485 thread on t t it - no one deleted it - i think there are not many people over there - who believe in it.

Shows arrogance or frustration? Flip side of the same coin!

IV really needs people from KY, KS, TN, UT, AL, CO, AR - please help convince a friend or family from these states. Thanks.

eastindia
03-25-2011, 11:12 AM
Those whose PDs are getting close to the spillover time have time to waste on the forum on useless discussions. Others are busy in advocacy day and contributing. I would not be surprised that these antiIV folks will turn anti-immigrants once they get their greencards. They will not want more people to get greencards after them and compete with them and their children in job market.

TeddyKoochu
03-25-2011, 11:20 AM
Starsun I would request you to put in another clarification for the benefit of all so that IV Core's stand is well known and published. Predictions & calculations help people to know what the ground reality is and plan their lives. Now we donít have people on IV whether EB2 or EB3 being sad after every VB because everyone knows when to expect what and predictions and calculations IMHO has gone a long way in correcting that situation.

I read several posts promoting advocacy which is very good however they take pride in trashing predictions and calculations for no apparent reason it seems to be in fashion / vogue. If advocacy has to be promoted it has to be done in a positive way there is no need to trash predictions and calculations at every available opportunity. Some of these immature comments are very disrespectful to the effort that is being put in my many of us on the predictions blog. If some people do not like what is being done on that blog they are really free not to visit but unnecessary comments should really stop or be moderated.

pappu
03-25-2011, 11:37 AM
Starsun I would request you to put in another clarification for the benefit of all so that IV Core's stand is well known and published. Predictions & calculations help people to know what the ground reality is and plan their lives. Now we donít have people on IV whether EB2 or EB3 being sad after every VB because everyone knows when to expect what and predictions and calculations IMHO has gone a long way in correcting that situation.

I read several posts promoting advocacy which is very good however they take pride in trashing predictions and calculations for no apparent reason it seems to be in fashion / vogue. If advocacy has to be promoted it has to be done in a positive way there is no need to trash predictions and calculations at every available opportunity. Some of these immature comments are very disrespectful to the effort that is being put in my many of us on the predictions blog. If some people do not like what is being done on that blog they are really free not to visit but unnecessary comments should really stop or be moderated.

Teddy. The intention of such post is to tell people that they need to look beyond spending time on predictions. Predictions can help people know the extent of the backlog. For some it is a motivating factor because they were in the dark until USCIS started publishing data. People used to think their Greencard is round the corner and had no idea about the backlog. So yes the data and estimations have helped get a clearer picture. And this has benefited our community. IV has worked for several months to get the data from USCIS through its agenda item in the past. Today USCIS is publishing data at regular intervals because IV community had participated in a mass campaign to get FOIA data from USCIS. There is a whole history of advocacy behind the data everyone is using for prediction today and it was advocacy that got things done. However they should not get stuck with it and have a more 360 degree view of the issue. For some predictions are a source of encouragement for advocacy work. People leading predictions can play an important role in giving direction to others and help solve the root cause of the problem.They should be urged use it for the advocacy work as well if possible. For example a good research document can be made to illustrate visually the extent of backlogs and wait times. This document can be then circulated to media and lawmaker offices. Do not look at predictions in isolation. Secondly, the data people are using is still incomplete and has lot of assumptions. I had posted some update on the data in the donor forum early this month based on a recent meeting. So predictions we see on the forums will not be fully correct. People need to use predictions as means rather than consider it as an end.

snathan
03-25-2011, 11:47 AM
believers or non believers.

If for a social and noble cause, I can *donate*. If asked for what IV did, I cannot *participate*. if explained what we can change and with transparency and patience while eating a humble pie, i can *participate* *contribute* *put IV on a map* *market* Well thats just my view.

Nice analogy but note that IV for me is like samplers. If I like what is being offered, I would donate. If I want some thing to be given as sampler, I will buy, contribute and market it. I cannot donate for samplers which were given before I knew abt it, even though some good people got benefited.

You will not talk all these analogy if you dont have the precious EAD. Since you have it.. well. If you dont believe it, just keep quit rather than berating IV and other's effort.

snathan
03-25-2011, 11:51 AM
Those whose PDs are getting close to the spillover time have time to waste on the forum on useless discussions. Others are busy in advocacy day and contributing. I would not be surprised that these antiIV folks will turn anti-immigrants once they get their greencards. They will not want more people to get greencards after them and compete with them and their children in job market.

Very well said...these people are anti-immigrants in the making.

dummgelauft
03-25-2011, 12:24 PM
Teddy. The intention of such post is to tell people that they need to look beyond spending time on predictions. Predictions can help people know the extent of the backlog. For some it is a motivating factor because they were in the dark until USCIS started publishing data. People used to think their Greencard is round the corner and had no idea about the backlog. So yes the data and estimations have helped get a clearer picture. And this has benefited our community. IV has worked for several months to get the data from USCIS through its agenda item in the past. Today USCIS is publishing data at regular intervals because IV community had participated in a mass campaign to get FOIA data from USCIS. There is a whole history of advocacy behind the data everyone is using for prediction today and it was advocacy that got things done. However they should not get stuck with it and have a more 360 degree view of the issue. For some predictions are a source of encouragement for advocacy work. People leading predictions can play an important role in giving direction to others and help solve the root cause of the problem.They should be urged use it for the advocacy work as well if possible. For example a good research document can be made to illustrate visually the extent of backlogs and wait times. This document can be then circulated to media and lawmaker offices. Do not look at predictions in isolation. Secondly, the data people are using is still incomplete and has lot of assumptions. I had posted some update on the data in the donor forum early this month based on a recent meeting. So predictions we see on the forums will not be fully correct. People need to use predictions as means rather than consider it as an end.

That is exactly why these are known as PREDICTIONS.

Suggested reading

"A prediction or forecast is a statement about the way things will happen in the future, often but not always based on experience or knowledge. While there is much overlap between prediction and forecast, a prediction may be a statement that some outcome is expected, while a forecast may cover a range of possible outcomes.

Although guaranteed information about the information is in many cases impossible, prediction is necessary to allow plans to be made about possible developments; Howard H. Stevenson writes that prediction in business "... is at least two things: Important and hard."[1]"
Prediction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction)

StarSun
03-25-2011, 01:21 PM
Teddy, IV team totally understand the need for predictions, it is a time consuming effort that some of you put in the thread to answer the needs of many IV members. Absolutely true and we appreciate your commitment and dedication. That being said, prediction alone is not the answer. Prediction along with advocacy gets the work done.

Predict all year round, and help the people needing the information to plan their life around, but when there is an opportunity to add to the efforts of prediction.....such as Advocacy, please make the best of it. It is frustrating to see that many members are simply satisfied at predicting, and are broadly indifferent to advocacy. As pappu mentioned earlier, it was advocacy that was instrumental in getting the data for all the calculations.........

I am flabbergasted when I hear members say that - I will be current in a month or two, so I am not interested in advocacy. They easily forget the long wait times they themselves encountered in the past and do nothing to help the people who still have endless wait times.....

If any of the IV team members are promoting advocacy over prediction (now), it is because, if done correctly, we could collectively solve the need for prediction for all immigrants residing in this country currently irrespective of their EB category!

rkg000
03-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Everybody, please calm down. I don't know what the intention of this thread was, but if it is to increase the participation to achieve IV's goals, then I am sure you all realize it is having the exact opposite affect. The only thing happening on this thread is donors and non-donors going at each other in a way of unbecoming of us professionals.

I am sure we can agree to disagree with respect. Think about some of the messages written and you wonder would it be really said if they were facing the person.

I personally don't think bitzbyte is or was berating IV's efforts. All he/she needs is more convincing. And I don't think he/she is alone. If that was the case then we would be having 49000 members donating and the advocacy effort would be a grand success and we would be having millions for lobbying. The fact is that there are more like bitzbyte than the donors. I am not sure where the problem is but there sure is. Heck, I am donor and I don't find myself talking about IV or hearing about IV from colleagues or friends. Everybody has their priorities set and the daily grind to go through. Getting a GC may not be everyone's ultimate goal. There was a time I used to be so obsessed with GC that my whole life seemed to be revolving around bulletins and the disappointment of backlogs. One day I said enough is enough and stopped worrying about it.

But I realized that the question is not about whether and when I get GC, but is it fair, to you and your family, to go through years of this agony. It is not fair and we have to do something about it.

As much as everybody needs IV to address their needs, IV needs them to achieve our collective goals. Lets think about ways to increase participation rather than marginalizing those that don't yet believe.

snathan
03-25-2011, 04:37 PM
Everybody, please calm down. I don't know what the intention of this thread was, but if it is to increase the participation to achieve IV's goals, then I am sure you all realize it is having the exact opposite affect. The only thing happening on this thread is donors and non-donors going at each other in a way of unbecoming of us professionals.

I am sure we can agree to disagree with respect. Think about some of the messages written and you wonder would it be really said if they were facing the person.

I personally don't think bitzbyte is or was berating IV's efforts. All he/she needs is more convincing. And I don't think he/she is alone. If that was the case then we would be having 49000 members donating and the advocacy effort would be a grand success and we would be having millions for lobbying. The fact is that there are more like bitzbyte than the donors. I am not sure where the problem is but there sure is. Heck, I am donor and I don't find myself talking about IV or hearing about IV from colleagues or friends. Everybody has their priorities set and the daily grind to go through. Getting a GC may not be everyone's ultimate goal. There was a time I used to be so obsessed with GC that my whole life seemed to be revolving around bulletins and the disappointment of backlogs. One day I said enough is enough and stopped worrying about it.
But I realized that the question is not about whether and when I get GC, but is it fair, to you and your family, to go through years of this agony. It is not fair and we have to do something about it.

As much as everybody needs IV to address their needs, IV needs them to achieve our collective goals. Lets think about ways to increase participation rather than marginalizing those that don't yet believe.

1. You have stopped worrying because you got your EAD at least.

2. USCIS is not asking to prove relationship with your great grandparents every time you go for H1B extension

3. You don’t need to worry about the VO at POE or consulate and not postponing your India trip for 3-4 years now.

4. Even though you are on project and pay roll is running, paying the tax...don’t lose your sleep over what memo comes next before the next H1B extension.

Our people are not worrying until it strikes them. Till then they will ask all sorts of questions and have attitude of why should I donate. You can see now and then a thread on IV - Help urgent, I-485 denied, H4- denied.

Why its urgent now for them...?

imh1b
03-25-2011, 04:48 PM
1. You stopped worrying because you got your EAD at least.

2. USCIS is not asking to prove relationship with your great grandparents every time you go for H1B extension

3. You don’t need to worry about the VO at POE or consulate and not postponing your India trip for 3-4 years now.

4. Even though you are on project and pay roll is running, paying the tax...don’t lose your sleep over what memo comes next before the next H1B extension.

Our people are not worrying until it strikes them. Till then they will ask all sorts of questions and have attitude of why should I donate. You can see now and then a thread on IV - Help urgent, I-485 denied, H4- denied.

Why its urgent now for them...?

Totally agree with ya.

Unless crises strikes people and they are shatters they do not care.

Just see the old threads of EAD delays. All these people with EADs were sobbing on those threads pleading to IV to help them. Most did not have a donor status or had contributed a dime. They were on the verge of losing their jobs when IV helped them get their EADs on time. Now where are all those hundreds of people. Are they contributing a dime for the lobby day? I bet after 2 years, they will come again to IV and sob about EADs delays and ask IV to help them.

snathan
03-25-2011, 05:04 PM
Totally agree with ya.

Unless crises strikes people and they are shatters they do not care.

Just see the old threads of EAD delays. All these people with EADs were sobbing on those threads pleading to IV to help them. Most did not have a donor status or had contributed a dime. They were on the verge of losing their jobs when IV helped them get their EADs on time. Now where are all those hundreds of people. Are they contributing a dime for the lobby day? I bet after 2 years, they will come again to IV and sob about EADs delays and ask IV to help them.

This is the part I am not agreeing with IV and donít like very much. Why would IV ever need to help people who never bothered to contribute time or money?

If they can get it for free why would anyone wants to contribute ?

rkg000
03-25-2011, 05:21 PM
1. You stopped worrying because you got your EAD at least.

2. USCIS is not asking to prove relationship with your great grandparents every time you go for H1B extension

3. You donít need to worry about the VO at POE or consulate and not postponing your India trip for 3-4 years now.

4. Even though you are on project and pay roll is running, paying the tax...donít lose your sleep over what memo comes next before the next H1B extension.

Our people are not worrying until it strikes them. Till then they will ask all sorts of questions and have attitude of why should I donate. You can see now and then a thread on IV - Help urgent, I-485 denied, H4- denied.

Why its urgent now for them...?

Mr. Nathan I have a great deal of respect for you and all those who have committed themselves to driving IV and all activities it is doing. But what you understood from my post is entirely wrong, and I have to explain why, because if this is the misconception you are having, not about me in particular but everyone who is not involved, then it definitely needs answers.
As I already clarified, I had stopped worrying about GC, long time ago, not after getting EAD.
I bought a house when I didn't even start my current GC process.
I went to India (Chennai) in my 7th year for H1 extension stamping (after completing 6 yrs of H1 and before I even filed 485). I didn't postpone it till I got EAD.
I left my employer who had filed for my labor in 2004 because he started acting up at the end of my project and started GC process with new employer well into my 6th year.

I do understand some people run to IV only in time of need. But all I am saying is not to paint everyone with same brush. Even if you think about people who want anything to do with IV only when there is need, lets try winning them over rather than stating the obvious and ridiculing them.

bugsbunny
03-25-2011, 05:41 PM
I think most on here know that IV's central goal is to clear the backlog
However there are many underlying specifics to get to this goal
and i think that's what the members on here want to hear about.
for example
Re-capture of unused visa numbers
removing country specific limits
Automatically granting visa numbers to those who have waited 5 years or more
Increasing the total number of EB visa numbers
Allowing non-current people to file I-485 and get EAD

As you can see there are many different causes and many different solutions
What is IV advocating...which cause?...which solution?

StarSun, Pappu please don't take things personally. Not all members can go to DC or visit their state representatives. I am sure IV has many other needs. If we can identify and openly publish a list of things that are needed then we can certainly increase volunteers and participation

Btw...how do you join the state chapter?
The answers to many of the questions asked may be obvious for you since you are heavily involved with IV...but they are not obvious to a lot.

bugsbunny
03-25-2011, 06:57 PM
We actually provide 4 reputed lawyers (Ari Sauer and Greg Siskind of VisaLaw.com, Raj Iyer of Offices of Carl Shusterman, and Prashanthi Reddy of Reddyesq) with whom you can get your questions answered for free 3 Thursdays in a month! Do you know about the conference calls that is done every week with attorneys - check it out in the members forum if you were unaware of it!.

I did not know this. Where is the information for this conference call?
How do you get to the member's forum?
and what qualifies a person as a Donor with access to the Donor forums?

rkg000
03-25-2011, 07:03 PM
I did not know this. Where is the information for this conference call?
How do you get to the member's forum?
and what qualifies a person as a Donor with access to the Donor forums?

The info on conference calls is available through forum postings.

snathan
03-25-2011, 07:54 PM
I think most on here know that IV's central goal is to clear the backlog
However there are many underlying specifics to get to this goal
and i think that's what the members on here want to hear about.
for example
Re-capture of unused visa numbers
removing country specific limits
Automatically granting visa numbers to those who have waited 5 years or more
Increasing the total number of EB visa numbers
Allowing non-current people to file I-485 and get EAD

As you can see there are many different causes and many different solutions
What is IV advocating...which cause?...which solution?

StarSun, Pappu please don't take things personally. Not all members can go to DC or visit their state representatives. I am sure IV has many other needs. If we can identify and openly publish a list of things that are needed then we can certainly increase volunteers and participation

Btw...how do you join the state chapter?
The answers to many of the questions asked may be obvious for you since you are heavily involved with IV...but they are not obvious to a lot.

I do understand not everyone can travel to DC....but whats stopping to meet your state represenatives in their local office...?

snathan
03-25-2011, 08:05 PM
Mr. Nathan I have a great deal of respect for you and all those who have committed themselves to driving IV and all activities it is doing. But what you understood from my post is entirely wrong, and I have to explain why, because if this is the misconception you are having, not about me in particular but everyone who is not involved, then it definitely needs answers.
As I already clarified, I had stopped worrying about GC, long time ago, not after getting EAD.
I bought a house when I didn't even start my current GC process.
I went to India (Chennai) in my 7th year for H1 extension stamping (after completing 6 yrs of H1 and before I even filed 485). I didn't postpone it till I got EAD.
I left my employer who had filed for my labor in 2004 because he started acting up at the end of my project and started GC process with new employer well into my 6th year.

I do understand some people run to IV only in time of need. But all I am saying is not to paint everyone with same brush. Even if you think about people who want anything to do with IV only when there is need, lets try winning them over rather than stating the obvious and ridiculing them.

rkg000,

I donít have anything personally against you. For the last couple of years things have changed dramatically for the worst. If you are on H1B you are facing lots of hardship and it doesnít matter even if you are genuinely employed and in status. They used to ask only for client letters and now it is laundry list. Till 2007 things were different.

All the information is available in the IV's about page or wiki. There are people who genuinely do not have much info but there are people who do not want to participate. Because itís not going to help them immediately until itís going to bite them. Until then they do not see the value for their investment.

The frustration and disappointment is about them. You cannot wake up a person who is just pretending.

bugsbunny
03-25-2011, 08:26 PM
The info on conference calls is available through forum postings.
ok i managed to find it...but its not easy to find...the average person visiting this site will never know about it. This is a cool benefit...it should be advertised on the site more so people can take advantage. It will certainly generate more interest in IV

snathan
03-25-2011, 08:28 PM
ok i managed to find it...but its not easy to find...the average person visiting this site will never know about it. This is a cool benefit...it should be advertised on the site more so people can take advantage. It will certainly generate more interest in IV

May be should make it as sticky on the front page.

bugsbunny
03-25-2011, 08:41 PM
I do understand not everyone can travel to DC....but whats stopping to meet your state represenatives in their local office...?
Various reasons...time...schedule...other obligations etc...lack of readily available information on IV as an organisation or state chapter....too many steps to do simple things like joining the state chapter :)
ya some of the reasons seem ridiculous...but even small things easily hinder people who already have a busy life. They create mental barriers...where such tasks are just postponed rather than handled in an instant.
I am trying to get more of IV core members to take these small things seriously and have even offered to help in this regard.

like the example of the weekly attorney call
Many like me don't have the time to search through forums as to what the number is for the call or where is the link for the chat. If its displayed on the main page "Click here to join attorney call" that would be so much easier and encourage a lot more participation.

I understand that there is lack of resources at IV to do this or address a lot of other things...but rather than being frustrated at lack of participation maybe more focus can be placed at these many small issues that need to get addressed
Please understand that i am not blaming anyone. I very much greatly appreciate the work IV puts in. Its quite a noble job where people are sacrificing their time and some of them already have their GCs

tonyHK12
03-25-2011, 08:55 PM
Various reasons...time...schedule...other obligations etc...lack of readily available information on IV as an organisation or state chapter....too many steps to do simple things like joining the state chapter :)
ya some of the reasons seem ridiculous...but even small things easily hinder people who already have a busy life. They create mental barriers...where such tasks are just postponed rather than handled in an instant.
I am trying to get more of IV core members to take these small things seriously and have even offered to help in this regard.


I do agree with some of your points. We could do with a marketing consultant for the website, etc
Many on core are working almost all their waking hours, and simply don't have time.

But you know what the funny thing is? No one is willing to donate for these items.
We are even $28,000 short for critical things like Advocacy days.
People couldn't even collect a few thousand dollars for advertising on a single website about IV.
We don't have a paid sales person or PR person.
Most people aren't aware of realities.
.

bugsbunny
03-25-2011, 09:09 PM
I do agree with some of your points. We could do with a marketing consultant for the website, etc
Many on core are working almost all their waking hours, and simply don't have time.

But you know what the funny thing is? No one is willing to donate for these items.
We are even $28,000 short for critical things like Advocacy days.
People couldn't even collect a few thousand dollars for advertising on a single website about IV.
We don't have a paid sales person or PR person.
Most people aren't aware of realities.
.

Can i volunteer to do website and website related PR work? :)
StarSun says i need to come to DC and meet everyone to build trust before i can be trusted to touch the website ...is there an easier way....can i meet everyone on webcam? lol

Since the Advocacy days is just a week or 2 away...maybe IV can contact the "most often visitors" in the past month who are not donors and request them to donate. I know it seems weird to ask for donations to help those who are benefiting....but every non-profit organisation does it....its a good fund raising technique. No reason to feel its beneath IV to ask its own members to donate...i say go ahead of that and stick posters in Indian stores asking for donation but thats just my opinion ;)

gk_2000
03-25-2011, 10:17 PM
Various reasons...time...schedule...other obligations etc...lack of readily available information on IV as an organisation or state chapter....too many steps to do simple things like joining the state chapter :)
ya some of the reasons seem ridiculous...but even small things easily hinder people who already have a busy life. They create mental barriers...where such tasks are just postponed rather than handled in an instant.
I am trying to get more of IV core members to take these small things seriously and have even offered to help in this regard.

like the example of the weekly attorney call
Many like me don't have the time to search through forums as to what the number is for the call or where is the link for the chat. If its displayed on the main page "Click here to join attorney call" that would be so much easier and encourage a lot more participation.

I understand that there is lack of resources at IV to do this or address a lot of other things...but rather than being frustrated at lack of participation maybe more focus can be placed at these many small issues that need to get addressed
Please understand that i am not blaming anyone. I very much greatly appreciate the work IV puts in. Its quite a noble job where people are sacrificing their time and some of them already have their GCs

How about a button: "Get GC by Fedex express mail. (Shipping extra)" ? :p

StarSun
03-26-2011, 02:28 AM
Various reasons...time...schedule...other obligations etc...lack of readily available information on IV as an organisation or state chapter....too many steps to do simple things like joining the state chapter :)
ya some of the reasons seem ridiculous...

like the example of the weekly attorney call
Many like me don't have the time to search through forums as to what the number is for the call or where is the link for the chat. If its displayed on the main page "Click here to join attorney call" that would be so much easier and encourage a lot more participation.


No member has to search for the lawyer conference call thread in the forums section at all. They just have to read the threads running on the home page!. Every week that we have the conference call, the thread runs with the red title "Free Conference Call on -date- -Lawyer name- frm -firm name", and it is mostly me who keeps the thread alive from Monday through Thursday! I have even started a thread on the Ask the lawyer section announcing this and I kept the thread on the home page until the third week of this month - when we had the last call for the month of March. I have not kept it up on the home page with all the advocacy activities we are involved in - but I would think that the members who benefited from the calls would want to help by keeping it up on the home page...........but that does not happen either (although wait_for_ever_gc and SGP tried for a few weeks).

This is exactly what I mean when I say "frustration" - The services are clear on the title and runs on the home page every week. Yet members say, I can't find it!

I have had people PM me and ask how do I post on IV - I point them to the thread that tells them to do it - we do have it as a sticky, for easy visibility if members take the time of doing a little search. I have had members call me and ask how do I post, I have explained it to them while on the call. There is only one ph# available to reach IV - and I have answered everyone of the calls for which members have needed help.

ok i managed to find it...but its not easy to find...the average person visiting this site will never know about it. This is a cool benefit...it should be advertised on the site more so people can take advantage. It will certainly generate more interest in IV

Right here, members should realize, IV is not here to market stuff or make money. IV is about services and working together to bring the relief needed for our immigrant community. Does IV need the money? Absolutely - for advocacy. Not just the 3 day advocacy event but the year round advocacy that needs to happen to get anything done.

IV has a donor forum, and it has made a policy that to be able to get access to it, members need to donate. It is not a mandatory service but an option of choice for each of the members. Without making any monetary payments mandatory, IV members (some) have issues with it. I cannot imagine the uproar and backlash that will come, if IV decides to impose even a $2 mandatory fees. People will find fault with that too......... And if there is one thing we have realized, we can't please everyone. IV leaves the option of donating as a choice to our members rather than a mandatory imposition of fees.


I will say this though, Aman is a good friend of mine, and he himself being in EB3, waited for many years to get his GC. Before he got his GC, he too was frustrated with the system and came up with this organization - over a conference call - to find solutions to make this GC process better. This was in end of 2005. He got his GC in the recent past in EB3, and yet here he is fighting for the cause of the people who are still stuck in the backlogs! He has a full time job, a family (who is sacrificing a lot because he is so involved in finishing what he started, a time that he could have spent at home), and he works harder than anyone I know for your Green Card relief. There are very few dedicated people behind IV, and Aman is the very back bone of this organization.

Members write about IV being for EB2? How? Members write about how IV does not understand the pain of an EB3.. Really? Aman and Pappu and other team members are all in EB3......some still without a GC......waiting just like you! This organization was built on EB3 pain and it continues to exist because of the dedication of few leaders to see this through. A lot of people got greened in 2010 - where are they? Some visit, some even donate regularly, some even participate/volunteer for the advocacy days in DC. But the large majority left. If Aman decided to leave after he got his GC, each of you would have found another online place to go to, but what you may not realize is, had he done that, there would be 1 less dedicated, passionate voice fighting for your speedy Green Card!

The other day, a member since 2007 - does not know what the goals of this organization is! Even my child knows - that to find out about any organization - just go to the "About Us" section. Four main menus to explore - "Home", "Forums", "Wiki", "Advocacy" - you will find everything you need to know about IV.

Members don't want to see what is in front of them (Free lawyer conference call on home page)

Members don't want to explore a little bit about this forums - (Take 10 minutes of your time when you visit IV to look up on Advocacy, on Wiki) - to get the info needed.

Members don't want to participate in anything - like I said - IV has this action item of meeting with lawmakers - and the response is "I can't, as I have a busy schedule, other commitments......" All I am asking for is an hour off from work to meet with lawmakers in a month. 1 hour in a month!

Members ask what has IV done for me? I won't even say 'Ask what have you done for IV" - instead I will say, "Ask what have you done about your own green card other than wait."

A member thought Pappu's post was "arrogance". But does this member know that Pappu is the one who handles these difficult issues - researching what the problem is and then suggesting the next steps or contacting the right officials to get the answers for these needy members. IV does not charge for this time and service. But he hopes that this member will donate. And he has rarely found these very members coming back to donate to IV. And that to me is "frustration".

You may want to believe what I am saying or not - the choice is yours. But I will ask this of each of you - if you have something negative to say about IV or don't know what IV is working on - just pick up the phone, call and ask. Before you criticize the hard work of people, take the time to get your facts right and then do what you feel is right.

BTW, all "you" mentioned here is every member and not directed to one person. And check out my signature - finding your state chapter and becoming a member is easy. I have had this for over a year now.

GCHope2011
03-26-2011, 08:12 AM
Starsun I would request you to put in another clarification for the benefit of all so that IV Core's stand is well known and published. Predictions & calculations help people to know what the ground reality is and plan their lives. Now we donít have people on IV whether EB2 or EB3 being sad after every VB because everyone knows when to expect what and predictions and calculations IMHO has gone a long way in correcting that situation.

I read several posts promoting advocacy which is very good however they take pride in trashing predictions and calculations for no apparent reason it seems to be in fashion / vogue. If advocacy has to be promoted it has to be done in a positive way there is no need to trash predictions and calculations at every available opportunity. Some of these immature comments are very disrespectful to the effort that is being put in my many of us on the predictions blog. If some people do not like what is being done on that blog they are really free not to visit but unnecessary comments should really stop or be moderated.
Teddy -

I have deep personal respect for you and the people who have spent countless hours trying to come up with the predictions framework.

It provides a way for all of us to make sense of where we stand in the line and what to expect - to a large degree of reasonableness. That way, at least we are not groping in the dark, with false hopes or false hopelessness.

The point that also needs to be kept in mind is that predictions are dependent on policies and anything that we can "do" to impact policies, will have a positive effect on predictions.

We do not need to take predictions as a full & final situation for all of us about which nothing can be done. Advocacy is a way to do something about the policies that impact our situation, so that our predicted timelines become better.

We are in a situation similar to driving from coast to coast on I-80, where everyone except the retrogressed countries are allowed to get on the highway and drive full-speed whenever they want to, whereas we are only allowed to get on to the highway when "rules permit". Based on these rules, we have done a decent job of predicting when we might be able to get on to the highway.

We now need to also put significant effort on changing the rules, so that we can get on the highway sooner.

The point that everyone is making (may not be as simply - like everything else, this too gets emotional many times) is lets not get content due to predictions, but also do our part to change the ground rules.

Hope this helps.

mayhemt
03-26-2011, 08:50 AM
( I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine, who was more than happy to go to Las Vegas very frequently and lose 100$ than contributing time or money to IV.)

I was running some numbers...
There are close to 400,000 pending applicants.
Out of 400000, maybe 300,000 are from seriously backlogged regions? (India, China etc..)
Out of 300000, maybe 150,000 are from India.
Out of 150000, maybe 80,000 are primary applicants (Not counting dependents).
Out of 80,000, maybe 30,000 are waiting endlessly with no hope around the corner...

(I don't have the below exact numbers..but)
Out of 30,000, we have hardly 50 members attending the DC advocacy event?
If these 30,000 members, on an average had contributed 10$ ( 3 gallons of gas or Half the weekend pizza/family outing bill), wouldn't we have reached 300,000 $?

Now comparing these numbers with recent demonstrations around the country in support of DREAM Act, I would say there is a difference of Apple and Orange. Remember, there were students who were undocumented/out of status, risking deportation participated and contributed for the DREAM Act. Having said that, may be we need to pushed to the limits before we ALL take some action.

Given this lazy attitude of IV audience, I really commend the efforts of Anu and other IV core team for their efforts. If I were in their position, I would have given up long time back.

bugsbunny
03-26-2011, 06:12 PM
No member has to search for the lawyer conference call thread in the forums section at all. They just have to read the threads running on the home page!. Every week that we have the conference call, the thread runs with the red title "Free Conference Call on -date- -Lawyer name- frm -firm name", and it is mostly me who keeps the thread alive from Monday through Thursday! I have even started a thread on the Ask the lawyer section announcing this and I kept the thread on the home page until the third week of this month - when we had the last call for the month of March. I have not kept it up on the home page with all the advocacy activities we are involved in - but I would think that the members who benefited from the calls would want to help by keeping it up on the home page...........but that does not happen either (although wait_for_ever_gc and SGP tried for a few weeks).

This is exactly what I mean when I say "frustration" - The services are clear on the title and runs on the home page every week. Yet members say, I can't find it!

i don't get it you are saying that members don't have to search...and yet someone has to keep it up on the home page...which is it? yes a sticky thread would have saved work and not required someone to keep it up. Why wasn't it done in the first place. When a service is supposed to be offered every week...it should be offered every week...or else there should be an announcement that is will not be offered this particular week and that it will continue next on said week.

No reason to be frustrated when people are asking simple questions...another idea would be to put the answers to the most frequently asked questions on the FAQ page...which does not work right now....so that you don't have to repeat the answers.
Its an easy solution i think.

Giving a long lecture of frustration is not the best way to attract people to an organisation.
Think about it...do u go buy clothes from a store that voices their frustrations about the prices of raw material...of do u go buy it because they were nice to you...had great customer service...nice selection of goods...and fair prices.

I am sorry but working for hours on end alone, voicing frustration at lack of participation, treating members like they are morons for not being able to find supposedly simple things is a really terrible way to attract more people to an organisation. The cause may be noble...but who will wanna join some organisation where people just complain about how miserable things are.

Please pause for a moment and think about what i am saying. This is exactly why you have less participation and less donation. IV needs to transform into a vibrant fun place to be while still upholding the noble cause.

bugsbunny
03-26-2011, 06:40 PM
And check out my signature - finding your state chapter and becoming a member is easy. I have had this for over a year now


regarding the state chapters
this is what i found on the page following your link


State: Southern California

Name: Santhi Boppana
IV handle: santb1975

Leaader Name: Pancham
IV handle: prp925

Leader Name: Puneet
IV handle: Paskal
State Group email/URL: SC_Immigration_Voice : Southern California Immigration Voice (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sc_immigration_voice)


At first i thought there was no state chapter for California. Only after searching the page for the word "california" did i find the ones for Southern California and Northern California
which are not states but just different parts of California.
Was i supposed to magically just guess that it is listed this way...or am i a moron who just does not understand this simple thing?

imh1b
03-26-2011, 08:18 PM
regarding the state chapters
this is what i found on the page following your link



At first i thought there was no state chapter for California. Only after searching the page for the word "california" did i find the ones for Southern California and Northern California
which are not states but just different parts of California.
Was i supposed to magically just guess that it is listed this way...or am i a moron who just does not understand this simple thing?

Its plain and simple.
You have described yourself already in your post and you said the word Moron.
Why it is so hard for you to understand Northern California and Southern California?

snathan
03-26-2011, 08:22 PM
i don't get it you are saying that members don't have to search...and yet someone has to keep it up on the home page...which is it? yes a sticky thread would have saved work and not required someone to keep it up. Why wasn't it done in the first place. When a service is supposed to be offered every week...it should be offered every week...or else there should be an announcement that is will not be offered this particular week and that it will continue next on said week.

No reason to be frustrated when people are asking simple questions...another idea would be to put the answers to the most frequently asked questions on the FAQ page...which does not work right now....so that you don't have to repeat the answers.
Its an easy solution i think.

Giving a long lecture of frustration is not the best way to attract people to an organisation.
Think about it...do u go buy clothes from a store that voices their frustrations about the prices of raw material...of do u go buy it because they were nice to you...had great customer service...nice selection of goods...and fair prices.I am sorry but working for hours on end alone, voicing frustration at lack of participation, treating members like they are morons for not being able to find supposedly simple things is a really terrible way to attract more people to an organisation. The cause may be noble...but who will wanna join some organisation where people just complain about how miserable things are.

Please pause for a moment and think about what i am saying. This is exactly why you have less participation and less donation. IV needs to transform into a vibrant fun place to be while still upholding the noble cause.

Those stores are making profit by selling you goods/services. IV is a non-profit ogranization and no one is making any profit here. I came to IV through google when I was searching on some immigration issues. I started reading info here and came to know what IV is about and what they are doing. I am not blaming others for not spoon feeding me.

snathan
03-26-2011, 08:23 PM
regarding the state chapters
this is what i found on the page following your link



At first i thought there was no state chapter for California. Only after searching the page for the word "california" did i find the ones for Southern California and Northern California
which are not states but just different parts of California.
Was i supposed to magically just guess that it is listed this way...or am i a moron who just does not understand this simple thing?

May be its true what you call yourself. How much time it took to find out these info for you.

imh1b
03-26-2011, 08:25 PM
i don't get it you are saying that members don't have to search...and yet someone has to keep it up on the home page...which is it? yes a sticky thread would have saved work and not required someone to keep it up. Why wasn't it done in the first place. When a service is supposed to be offered every week...it should be offered every week...or else there should be an announcement that is will not be offered this particular week and that it will continue next on said week.

No reason to be frustrated when people are asking simple questions...another idea would be to put the answers to the most frequently asked questions on the FAQ page...which does not work right now....so that you don't have to repeat the answers.
Its an easy solution i think.

Giving a long lecture of frustration is not the best way to attract people to an organisation.
Think about it...do u go buy clothes from a store that voices their frustrations about the prices of raw material...of do u go buy it because they were nice to you...had great customer service...nice selection of goods...and fair prices.

I am sorry but working for hours on end alone, voicing frustration at lack of participation, treating members like they are morons for not being able to find supposedly simple things is a really terrible way to attract more people to an organisation. The cause may be noble...but who will wanna join some organisation where people just complain about how miserable things are.

Please pause for a moment and think about what i am saying. This is exactly why you have less participation and less donation. IV needs to transform into a vibrant fun place to be while still upholding the noble cause.

Why dont you do customer service for IV as a volunteer if you think IV is not responding right? How about that? I myself have some complaints but I agree with IV is doing for us. But since I do not volunteer, do not have time to do anything for IV or even donate, so I have no right to just complain. But I have seen people volunteer and help out for me and you. They talk to Senators for me and you and this is a big work. It does not matter to me if the thread is bumped up or is a sticky. Making a thread sticky will not advocate for me for my green card. So it is not important for me.

snathan
03-26-2011, 08:26 PM
i don't get it you are saying that members don't have to search...and yet someone has to keep it up on the home page...which is it? yes a sticky thread would have saved work and not required someone to keep it up. Why wasn't it done in the first place. When a service is supposed to be offered every week...it should be offered every week...or else there should be an announcement that is will not be offered this particular week and that it will continue next on said week.

No reason to be frustrated when people are asking simple questions...another idea would be to put the answers to the most frequently asked questions on the FAQ page...which does not work right now....so that you don't have to repeat the answers.
Its an easy solution i think.

Giving a long lecture of frustration is not the best way to attract people to an organisation.
Think about it...do u go buy clothes from a store that voices their frustrations about the prices of raw material...of do u go buy it because they were nice to you...had great customer service...nice selection of goods...and fair prices.

I am sorry but working for hours on end alone, voicing frustration at lack of participation, treating members like they are morons for not being able to find supposedly simple things is a really terrible way to attract more people to an organisation. The cause may be noble...but who will wanna join some organisation where people just complain about how miserable things are.

Please pause for a moment and think about what i am saying. This is exactly why you have less participation and less donation. IV needs to transform into a vibrant fun place to be while still upholding the noble cause.

You are talking as if people are doing favour for others. You are here because you are stuck in immigration limbo as I am. I am not doing any favour for any one but myself. Is it very hard for you to understand. I am sure the brightest and highly educated can understand they are the losers if they are not participating.

bugsbunny
03-26-2011, 09:04 PM
Its plain and simple.
You have described yourself already in your post and you said the word Moron.
Why it is so hard for you to understand Northern California and Southern California?

lol well maybe i am a moron
but i expected California to be listed Alphabetically between Alabama and Colorado
since it wasn't there i just assumed there is no state chapter.
i doubt i would be the only one making this assumption.
Sure its trivial...but how many people made this assumption and just gave up looking for the state chapter?

Maybe its obvious to you but its not obvious to me that i should be searching for Northern and Southern California

Why dont you do customer service for IV as a volunteer if you think IV is not responding right? How about that?.
i am contributing..and i have offered to handle some PR on here.. I don't live in DC so cannot do PR for the organisation there.

GCHope2011
03-26-2011, 09:07 PM
i don't get it you are saying that members don't have to search...and yet someone has to keep it up on the home page...which is it? yes a sticky thread would have saved work and not required someone to keep it up. Why wasn't it done in the first place. When a service is supposed to be offered every week...it should be offered every week...or else there should be an announcement that is will not be offered this particular week and that it will continue next on said week.

No reason to be frustrated when people are asking simple questions...another idea would be to put the answers to the most frequently asked questions on the FAQ page...which does not work right now....so that you don't have to repeat the answers.
Its an easy solution i think.

Giving a long lecture of frustration is not the best way to attract people to an organisation.
Think about it...do u go buy clothes from a store that voices their frustrations about the prices of raw material...of do u go buy it because they were nice to you...had great customer service...nice selection of goods...and fair prices.

I am sorry but working for hours on end alone, voicing frustration at lack of participation, treating members like they are morons for not being able to find supposedly simple things is a really terrible way to attract more people to an organisation. The cause may be noble...but who will wanna join some organisation where people just complain about how miserable things are.

Please pause for a moment and think about what i am saying. This is exactly why you have less participation and less donation. IV needs to transform into a vibrant fun place to be while still upholding the noble cause.
This is just unbelievable nitpicking. Completely unproductive.

A "grassroots" organization like IV is what its members come to the table with - making it fun etc. is also dependent on the members - not some specific, designated individuals.

bugsbunny
03-26-2011, 09:12 PM
You are talking as if people are doing favour for others. You are here because you are stuck in immigration limbo as I am. I am not doing any favour for any one but myself. Is it very hard for you to understand. I am sure the brightest and highly educated can understand they are the losers if they are not participating.

People have various reasons for not participating ...its simple basic PR...IV as an organisation needs to frequently remind them of the good work IV has accomplished in maybe a regular newsletter...list out various needs that need attention and require volunteers for clearly defined roles...and be positive and coherent when replying to member's queries. Lashing out at members for asking simple questions is huge "no-no" for any organisation.

snathan
03-26-2011, 10:47 PM
People have various reasons for not participating ...its simple basic PR...IV as an organisation needs to frequently remind them of the good work IV has accomplished in maybe a regular newsletter...list out various needs that need attention and require volunteers for clearly defined roles...and be positive and coherent when replying to member's queries. Lashing out at members for asking simple questions is huge "no-no" for any organisation.

Means you have never received the IV news letter? Which planet are you from?

snathan
03-26-2011, 10:49 PM
lol well maybe i am a moron
but i expected California to be listed Alphabetically between Alabama and Colorado
since it wasn't there i just assumed there is no state chapter.
i doubt i would be the only one making this assumption.
Sure its trivial...but how many people made this assumption and just gave up looking for the state chapter?

Maybe its obvious to you but its not obvious to me that i should be searching for Northern and Southern California


i am contributing..and i have offered to handle some PR on here.. I don't live in DC so cannot do PR for the organisation there.

I recommend to read the book "Who moved my cheese?"

Who moved my cheese?: an amazing way to deal with change in your work and in your life [Book] (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&biw=1276&bih=580&q=who+moved+my+cheese&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2733430461336083287&sa=X&ei=uaaOTeqgKefp0gGj-pm-Cw&ved=0CD4Q8wIwAg#)

May be you should move your lazy Butt little bit and do little more home work. Do not expect spoon feeding and you are not a kid.

bugsbunny
03-26-2011, 11:43 PM
I recommend to read the book "Who moved my cheese?"

Who moved my cheese?: an amazing way to deal with change in your work and in your life [Book] (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&biw=1276&bih=580&q=who+moved+my+cheese&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2733430461336083287&sa=X&ei=uaaOTeqgKefp0gGj-pm-Cw&ved=0CD4Q8wIwAg#)

May be you should move your lazy Butt little bit and do little more home work. Do not expect spoon feeding and you are not a kid.

hahaha don't worry i am...i was merely identifying the various small things that can be done to garner more support for IV...for starters being nicer to people asking questions about IV :)

By the way IV is selling something ...Hope! ...Hope that advocacy will clear the backlog
and it does need to convince new people that this has a real chance to work

StarSun
03-27-2011, 09:35 AM
i don't get it you are saying that members don't have to search...and yet someone has to keep it up on the home page...which is it? yes a sticky thread would have saved work and not required someone to keep it up. Why wasn't it done in the first place. When a service is supposed to be offered every week...it should be offered every week...or else there should be an announcement that is will not be offered this particular week and that it will continue next on said week.

1. Threads cannot be a sticky on the home page. However, threads can be made sticky in the forums page under the sub-forums. The sticky thread on the Ask the Lawyer forum. (The http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum68-free-lawyer-conference-calls/1900583-free-attorney-conference-calls.html)
2. The aim is to have conference calls with Lawyers for free every week. We have gotten 4 lawyers to do it for 2 consecutive days - consistently. I need one more lawyer for the fourth week - here is a task for any member who is interested. Find me a lawyer who is willing to give 1 whole hour worth of advice to our members for free, preferably on a Thursday (to maintain the same day in a week) consistently year round.

No reason to be frustrated when people are asking simple questions...another idea would be to put the answers to the most frequently asked questions on the FAQ page...which does not work right now....so that you don't have to repeat the answers.
Its an easy solution i think.

Any member who is willing to spend a few hours on a regular basis, please help us with a FAQ about the site. Some of the answers are already in the forums, you just have to put them under one umbrella. Please let me know who wants to work on this project - individual or group effort.

Giving a long lecture of frustration is not the best way to attract people to an organisation.
Think about it...do u go buy clothes from a store that voices their frustrations about the prices of raw material...of do u go buy it because they were nice to you...had great customer service...nice selection of goods...and fair prices.

I am sorry but working for hours on end alone, voicing frustration at lack of participation, treating members like they are morons for not being able to find supposedly simple things is a really terrible way to attract more people to an organisation. The cause may be noble...but who will wanna join some organisation where people just complain about how miserable things are.

Please pause for a moment and think about what i am saying. This is exactly why you have less participation and less donation. IV needs to transform into a vibrant fun place to be while still upholding the noble cause.


Let me be clear, the only way IV knows of treating its members is with RESPECT. If it was not with respect or the understanding of the struggles each of you go through - our motivation to continue this cause would have long disappeared.

If there is frustration on our part, it exists within us, we hope for better, but the frustration (or anything else) has never stopped us from providing the service or executing the tasks.

The "frustration lecture" as you call it was not meant to be a lecture - which goes to show that it is very difficult to control the tone and message on forums. Many people have questions, and since the topic came up, I shared some of my thoughts - to give members a peek of how things look from the inside.

Not all our volunteering members are from DC area, they are as widely spread out as California, Minnasota, Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Tri State Area -- you name it, we have dedicated volunteers. Distance need not stop anyone from volunteering.

I am not sure how much "hope" is selling for these days, let me know :) - Trying to make this a fun and entertaining forum :p

Today is March 27, 2011. And I have 2 Tasks for interested members.

1. Find a fourth lawyer to give advice for free for an entire hour - preferably on a Thursday.
2. Help in compiling a FAQ, that will assist any new member to find his/her way through the forums.

Thank you guys for starting this conversation.

bitzbytz
03-27-2011, 11:26 AM
With this attitude and arrogance, I rarely think there would be motivation for anyone to do anything for IV.

I started discussion by asking , how can IV convince me that my donation is going to help, I got shot down by ARROGANT ******** and got all reds as if I care. I was planning on a charity/donation drive of my own to get some money for IV.
Know lot of consultants, who really dont know what to do with their miles with every one a executive airline status.
Already have 10+ people pledging Poker tournament from my poker group with their miles for Airlines and hotels. We are talking of a Million AA miles.
Indian restaurants(s) having a Immigration week where a dollar of each bill be given to IV.
I was even thinking of standing at Indian stores in Dallas to ask people to consider for IV cause, as long as I believed and hence was asking.

I was just getting started with so many ideas for my free time.

Good luck in what ever you do guys. Note that GC is not everything and note that I am still on extended H1, family on H1 and EAD never helped me. so assumption that EAD helped my life is baseless. All these hypocrites are long gone from IV once they get GC. All we get is response that Mr X or Y , even after getting GC, is working fro cause. How can I believe.

Any organization can be successful if there are questions answered and not shot down. Just working at DC doesnt make some one a strong contributor for IV.Work at grass root level is so imp. What I have noticed is any one who went to DC has become headstrong, egoist and arrogant as if they own IV.


Please read my initial post before commenting. I always said, I am for IV cause. just convince me so that I can convince some one

Gisa pita dialogue,...dont ask what IV has done,, ask yourself what you have done... COMMON

Here it is, I can write in BOLD and RED

greyhair
03-27-2011, 11:52 AM
With this attitude and arrogance, I rarely think there would be motivation for anyone to do anything for IV.
....

Please read my initial post before commenting. I always said, I am for IV cause. just convince me so that I can convince some one

Gisa pita dialogue,...dont ask what IV has done,, ask yourself what you have done... COMMON

Here it is, I can write in BOLD and RED

No one is going to waste time in convincing you. If you are not convinced but you think green card is an important issue, then start your own organization, spend your money, provide customer service and convince others, like the way you want others to convince you. Maybe you will do a better job.

The $1/bill in Indian restaurant is the most foolish of all the ideas. Indian restaurants don't let waiters/servers take $1 tip, you think you can let them raise $1 for you? A great soul said - Be the change you want to see in the world. Why don't you start your organization and do the things you are telling others to do for you? That way you will not have to read this forum or reply to posts you don't seem to like.

snathan
03-27-2011, 12:47 PM
With this attitude and arrogance, I rarely think there would be motivation for anyone to do anything for IV.

I started discussion by asking , how can IV convince me that my donation is going to help, I got shot down by ARROGANT ******** and got all reds as if I care. I was planning on a charity/donation drive of my own to get some money for IV.
Know lot of consultants, who really dont know what to do with their miles with every one a executive airline status.
Already have 10+ people pledging Poker tournament from my poker group with their miles for Airlines and hotels. We are talking of a Million AA miles.
Indian restaurants(s) having a Immigration week where a dollar of each bill be given to IV.
I was even thinking of standing at Indian stores in Dallas to ask people to consider for IV cause, as long as I believed and hence was asking.

I was just getting started with so many ideas for my free time.

Good luck in what ever you do guys. Note that GC is not everything and note that I am still on extended H1, family on H1 and EAD never helped me. so assumption that EAD helped my life is baseless. All these hypocrites are long gone from IV once they get GC. All we get is response that Mr X or Y , even after getting GC, is working fro cause. How can I believe.

Any organization can be successful if there are questions answered and not shot down. Just working at DC doesnt make some one a strong contributor for IV.Work at grass root level is so imp. What I have noticed is any one who went to DC has become headstrong, egoist and arrogant as if they own IV.


Please read my initial post before commenting. I always said, I am for IV cause. just convince me so that I can convince some one

Gisa pita dialogue,...dont ask what IV has done,, ask yourself what you have done... COMMON

Here it is, I can write in BOLD and RED

Your argument doesnít make sense at all. All are lame excuses at best. If you want to see what people are doing, you need to start work with people, see and believe. We cannot give you the notarized copy of certificate. You cannot sit on the fence and ask people to convince. As I said earlier no one is getting paid for what we are doing and no one is doing any favor for others either.

Dont waste everyone's time with your useless arguments. If you really want to do something, start the campaign for whatever you believe and if its really worth people will follow you.

imh1b
03-27-2011, 12:49 PM
With this attitude and arrogance, I rarely think there would be motivation for anyone to do anything for IV.

I started discussion by asking , how can IV convince me that my donation is going to help, I got shot down by ARROGANT ******** and got all reds as if I care. I was planning on a charity/donation drive of my own to get some money for IV.
Know lot of consultants, who really dont know what to do with their miles with every one a executive airline status.
Already have 10+ people pledging Poker tournament from my poker group with their miles for Airlines and hotels. We are talking of a Million AA miles.
Indian restaurants(s) having a Immigration week where a dollar of each bill be given to IV.
I was even thinking of standing at Indian stores in Dallas to ask people to consider for IV cause, as long as I believed and hence was asking.

I was just getting started with so many ideas for my free time.

Good luck in what ever you do guys. Note that GC is not everything and note that I am still on extended H1, family on H1 and EAD never helped me. so assumption that EAD helped my life is baseless. All these hypocrites are long gone from IV once they get GC. All we get is response that Mr X or Y , even after getting GC, is working fro cause. How can I believe.

Any organization can be successful if there are questions answered and not shot down. Just working at DC doesnt make some one a strong contributor for IV.Work at grass root level is so imp. What I have noticed is any one who went to DC has become headstrong, egoist and arrogant as if they own IV.


Please read my initial post before commenting. I always said, I am for IV cause. just convince me so that I can convince some one

Gisa pita dialogue,...dont ask what IV has done,, ask yourself what you have done... COMMON

Here it is, I can write in BOLD and RED

Whom are you trying to fool?
You are only showing what a fool you are.

If you wanted to do anything you would have done something since June 2007 when you became a member. What did you do since then?

Now your PD is getting current and you are close to Greencard. You WILL NOT do anything. But you will become an anti-immigrant for sure as someone wrote on the forum. As I understand, nobody is here to convince anyone else. Everyone is dong it because they want to do it for their application and they are doing the right thing. IV is a non profit. Each person is supporting because they feel they need to help themselves by helping IV.

snathan
03-27-2011, 12:58 PM
With this attitude and arrogance, I rarely think there would be motivation for anyone to do anything for IV.

I started discussion by asking , how can IV convince me that my donation is going to help, I got shot down by ARROGANT ******** and got all reds as if I care. I was planning on a charity/donation drive of my own to get some money for IV.
Know lot of consultants, who really dont know what to do with their miles with every one a executive airline status.
Already have 10+ people pledging Poker tournament from my poker group with their miles for Airlines and hotels. We are talking of a Million AA miles.
Indian restaurants(s) having a Immigration week where a dollar of each bill be given to IV.
I was even thinking of standing at Indian stores in Dallas to ask people to consider for IV cause, as long as I believed and hence was asking.

I was just getting started with so many ideas for my free time.

Good luck in what ever you do guys. Note that GC is not everything and note that I am still on extended H1, family on H1 and EAD never helped me. so assumption that EAD helped my life is baseless. All these hypocrites are long gone from IV once they get GC. All we get is response that Mr X or Y , even after getting GC, is working fro cause. How can I believe.

Any organization can be successful if there are questions answered and not shot down. Just working at DC doesnt make some one a strong contributor for IV.Work at grass root level is so imp. What I have noticed is any one who went to DC has become headstrong, egoist and arrogant as if they own IV.


Please read my initial post before commenting. I always said, I am for IV cause. just convince me so that I can convince some one

Gisa pita dialogue,...dont ask what IV has done,, ask yourself what you have done... COMMON

Here it is, I can write in BOLD and RED

You can stand all day and night but no one is going to bother you. That’s the reality. Now I am really convinced there no is point in arguing with you. It seems like you don’t have an iota of idea about ground reality or boozing all day or simply a moron.

bugsbunny
03-27-2011, 01:28 PM
imh1b and snathan....i respectfuly request that you'll refrain from calling anyone names....there is no need to call people fool/drunk/moron. I am quite sure youll are educated professionals that can think of better ways to make your argument.

bitzbytz was merely suggesting ideas...no reason to diss them...unless you have tried these yourself and have statistical proof that it won't work in other cities in the country.

bitzbytz....so say you need convincing...fine...what questions do you have about IV?
As you can see its an organisation of volunteers...and there is no PR department :)
IV's main goal is to clear the green card backlog...do you share this goal and believe in it? if yes...then contribute...even if you fully don't agree with how IV operates or responds

As you are well aware there are not too many organisations pursuing this cause so you can either help this one...or sit back and hope that one day Lawmakers will out of the goodness of their hearts do the right thing...lol you know that ain't gonna happen...with IV you have a bunch of others co-ordinating towards pushing Lawmakers for change

StarSun...i'll help with both the tasks you mentioned. My lawyer already gives free advice in several LA univs so he might be interested in this.
My questions...says he is interested...what does he have to do to participate....is there a number to call for the conference call....or a special link where he has to go to join the chat? which thursday of the month is he needed...is this fixed or does it change every month?
To be honest i never visit the forum page unless i need to search for something and thats very rare....can we put up a link or an Icon with a tiny banner advertising the free lawyer phone call on the home page?

rajuseattle
03-27-2011, 01:45 PM
This is the precise reason I am staying away from IV, people just dont show any civility in the forum discussions and starts name calling or shot down the people who ask questions.

If IV comes up with just one single GOAL of reducing the curent EB backlog for the restorgressed categories, people even from RoW countries will start participating in IV campaign and support IV's advocacy efforts in terms of their donations and volunteering for IV.

Reducing the current EB backlog will help everyone.

indigokiwi
03-27-2011, 01:49 PM
For new members:

There might be differing views on how to reach all the affected green card applicants, but no one is disputing the fact that the current delays in the employment based green card system are unacceptable and we need to do something drastic to change it. If you applied in EB3 with a priority date in 2011, you could be looking at over 10 -12 years(?) to get a green card. The delays that could happen at H-1B visa stampings at consulates, including TAL checks and additional administrative processing are a huge headache for many.

Currently, many green card applicants don't seem to know just how bad the situation is. The other day, I met someone who has been in this country for over 10 years, who thought that if you have a Master's degree, you can apply in EB1 and you will get your green card in a year!! True story. The reality is that even if you apply in EB2, you could be looking at 5-6 years and this situation can easily get worse.

The Advocacy Days in Washington D.C. on April 4th and 5th are really important because "2011 is a crucial year to get the fix needed to clear the backlogs and allow for our high skilled immigrants to get the relief needed. We need to capitalize on the opportunity to push for legislation now, as it is unlikely to have any favorable immigration bill to be brought for the next 2-3 years (Primary campaigns, Presidential campaigns will take priority)."

Participating in the Advocacy Days in D.C. is the best thing you can do. If you are within driving distance, this should be even more convenient.

The following are some of the items on the Agenda (someone correct me if anything is missing/incorrect):
-Re-capture of unused visa numbers
-Removing country specific limits
-Not counting dependants in the visa number count
-STEM exemption
-Allowing people to file I-485 and get EAD even when their priority date is not current.

If you cannot participate, you can help by contributing financially (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904554-action-item-advocacy-day-contributions.html). We have only raised $23,050 and still need to raise $26,950, despite some members contributing hundreds of dollars each. We still need everyone's help to reach our target. There is only one week to go. Reduced funding will mean IV having to scale back Advocacy plans, and since this is our best shot in the next 2 years, we could be losing out on a lot.
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bugsbunny
03-27-2011, 01:52 PM
Yeah some forget to be civil...but i believe that these few don't represent all of of IV.
And we are all subject to emotions and can make these mistakes as well where we forget to be civil.

I agree there needs to be more clarification on IV's goals and current pursuits....coming soon....a better FAQ page ;)

greyhair
03-27-2011, 01:52 PM
imh1b and snathan....i respectfuly request that you'll refrain from calling anyone names....there is no need to call people fool/drunk/moron. I am quite sure youll are educated professionals that can think of better ways to make your argument.


Wait a minute. I did not say that the person is a fool. I said the "idea" was foolish and gave reasons for why it is unworkable. The guy wanted to debate, so I provided my input and views. What's wrong with that?

tonyHK12
03-27-2011, 01:57 PM
This is the precise reason I am staying away from IV, people just dont show any civility in the forum discussions and starts name calling or shot down the people who ask questions.

If IV comes up with just one single GOAL of reducing the curent EB backlog for the restorgressed categories, people even from RoW countries will start participating in IV campaign and support IV's advocacy efforts in terms of their donations and volunteering for IV.

Reducing the current EB backlog will help everyone.

Yes I agree we should try to avoid name calling.
But think for a moment if you had to spend 1-2 hours a day volunteering for free and no benefit to you, and people come in asking you 10-20 questions and demanding things. How would you feel?
I assure you these are just normal people. well if you find them cursing there is a genuine reason for that.
Its the job of every one including those asking questions to work, not just complain.
We don't have a paid call center or support center.
If you are getting good customer service elsewhere, its coming out of your money.
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greyhair
03-27-2011, 02:07 PM
Yeah some forget to be civil...but i believe that these few don't represent all of of IV.
And we are all subject to emotions and can make these mistakes as well where we forget to be civil.

I agree there needs to be more clarification on IV's goals and current pursuits....coming soon....a better FAQ page ;)

Correct, I don't represent IV. But here is my observation. Every time some one gets a response from ordinary members such as myself, these members asking so called "legitimate" questions, these members such as bitzbytz, rajuseattle et al, these guys will immediately cry foul, uncivil, being manhandled, abused and battered. If you want to have a debate, be prepared to handle the debate and don't pretend that you are melting when someone tells you that your idea is foolish. Either you want a debate or you don't. And if you want to have a debate then why not come up with a response in support of your arguments instead of engaging in name calling like "uncivil" etc.

I know when someone is asking a genuine question. Its no rocket science and I can tell when someone is genuinely asking a legitimate question and when someone is trying to throw mud on work done by others. It enrages me to see these people not doing anything but at the same time, damaging work done by others.

snathan
03-27-2011, 04:07 PM
imh1b and snathan....i respectfuly request that you'll refrain from calling anyone names....there is no need to call people fool/drunk/moron. I am quite sure youll are educated professionals that can think of better ways to make your argument.

bitzbytz was merely suggesting ideas...no reason to diss them...unless you have tried these yourself and have statistical proof that it won't work in other cities in the country.

bitzbytz....so say you need convincing...fine...what questions do you have about IV?
As you can see its an organisation of volunteers...and there is no PR department :)
IV's main goal is to clear the green card backlog...do you share this goal and believe in it? if yes...then contribute...even if you fully don't agree with how IV operates or responds

As you are well aware there are not too many organisations pursuing this cause so you can either help this one...or sit back and hope that one day Lawmakers will out of the goodness of their hearts do the right thing...lol you know that ain't gonna happen...with IV you have a bunch of others co-ordinating towards pushing Lawmakers for change

StarSun...i'll help with both the tasks you mentioned. My lawyer already gives free advice in several LA univs so he might be interested in this.
My questions...says he is interested...what does he have to do to participate....is there a number to call for the conference call....or a special link where he has to go to join the chat? which thursday of the month is he needed...is this fixed or does it change every month?
To be honest i never visit the forum page unless i need to search for something and thats very rare....can we put up a link or an Icon with a tiny banner advertising the free lawyer phone call on the home page?

I am not sure if you are part of the campaign for 'Filing for I-485 when PD is not current'. We have explored all these ideas and even we put flyers all over the Indian restaurants and grocery shops. But not much happened. Even I have personally called people around five - six times and asked people to support. Though they are languishing in the GC line, they couldnít find any time to visit IV. What would you call a person when he is saying for various reasons not to meet the law makerís staff in their local office? They are able to find various reasons for not to meet but couldnít find even a single reason and time to meet once but still questioning others work/ effort. Are they just making fun of us or do they just think they are doing a favor for others?
If one genuinely interested to work on the issues there are various ways to do that. Sitting and complaining about others is not going to help but just irritate others

goosetavo
03-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Those of you that are in the fence on whether to support IV or not, see below, our adversaries are not sitting on the fence, they are mobilized and will be in DC the same week as us advocating for the exact opposite of what we want. Please consider this and support IV.

Never ceases to amaze me how well funded and organized our adversaries are. More the reason to make the sacrifice and be there representing EB-immigrants!

Is any sort of relief worth $100 to you? It sure is to me.


FAIR Announces Dates for Hold Their Feet to the Fire 2011 - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20110323/pl_usnw/DC69955)

FAIR Announces Dates for Hold Their Feet to the Fire 2011 - Yahoo! News

50 Talk Radio Hosts to Gather in Washington for National "Town Hall" on Immigration

WASHINGTON, March 23, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) announces April 6 and 7 as the dates for Hold Their Feet to the Fire 2011. Fifty talk radio hosts from all across the United States, led by Roger Hedgecock of Radio America Networks, are scheduled to participate in Hold Their Feet to the Fire 2011, making it the largest immigration "town hall" of the airwaves to date. This year's event marks the fifth time FAIR has organized and hosted a live radio row devoted to the discussion of immigration policy.

The fifty broadcasters will spend two days interviewing members of Congress, immigration reform experts, and law enforcement personnel. ¬ In addition to the broadcast component, dozens of activists from across the country will be in Washington to meet their elected representatives to urge them to enact immigration reforms that protect and serve the interests of the American people.

Among the key issues to be discussed by participants at Hold Their Feet to the Fire 2011 are:


The need to enact mandatory use of E-Verify by all U.S. employers to protect American workers from losing jobs to illegal aliens.
The refusal of the Obama administration to effectively enforce existing immigration laws.
The mounting costs of illegal immigration at the federal and local level.
Public opposition to all amnesty or legalization proposals for illegal aliens.
The need to reduce overall levels of immigration to the United States.

Pagal
03-28-2011, 07:42 AM
Hello,

I do see the 'argumentative Indian' of Amartya Sen in many here ... nothing wrong, that's what we are, so let's not get heated up...

I have seen IV grow over past 3-4 years from a small enthusiast group to a broader issue driven organization. When I was stuck in backlog, IV was the place to come and share my anxiety and hopes. It was then, that I decided to support IV on a regular basis.

Of course, you might want to provide support only for certain issues, but at the end of the day, organization needs money to sustain itself and to make itself visible. If you have been to Washington, then you would have noticed that there are almost all interests represented by lobbies. Lobbies make smaller interests visible to Washington. And IV is trying to raise visibility for all of us!

Isn't this a good enough cause to contribute? For those who want to see the IV credentials, we have forums where these are listed, but as of now we have a chance to raise our visibility in the crucial time of immigration reforms and we should grab it by both hands!

StarSun
03-28-2011, 10:16 AM
StarSun...i'll help with both the tasks you mentioned. My lawyer already gives free advice in several LA univs so he might be interested in this.
My questions...says he is interested...what does he have to do to participate....is there a number to call for the conference call....or a special link where he has to go to join the chat? which thursday of the month is he needed...is this fixed or does it change every month?
To be honest i never visit the forum page unless i need to search for something and thats very rare....can we put up a link or an Icon with a tiny banner advertising the free lawyer phone call on the home page?

Thank you for taking up the 2 tasks.

As for the lawyer conference calls, it has to be on the fourth Thursday of the month consistently. (This month, we ended up with 5 Thursdays, and therefore have no conf calls for the last 2). If we can have 4 free conference calls in a month - free on both ends - it is good.

When lawyers answers questions from our members, either through the conference calls or in the forums, their contact info will run on the top hand side of every IV page, giving visibility to immigration lawyers in a very targeted market. It is a mutually beneficial program for both members (getting free advice) and the lawyers (visibility).

Talk to your lawyer, find about his interests and let me know, I will follow up with him/her soon after the advocacy days in DC.

StarSun
03-28-2011, 10:38 AM
This is the precise reason I am staying away from IV, people just dont show any civility in the forum discussions and starts name calling or shot down the people who ask questions.

If IV comes up with just one single GOAL of reducing the curent EB backlog for the restorgressed categories, people even from RoW countries will start participating in IV campaign and support IV's advocacy efforts in terms of their donations and volunteering for IV.

Reducing the current EB backlog will help everyone.

If every member decided to be respectful of each other (even when some one is not), then civility would not be a problem.

However, that is not the case. Members sometimes take things personally and expect IV to micromanage the forums. In the current situation this is not possible.

1. IV is asking money for advocacy efforts and we are unable to raise the money we set out. The money goes directly to the advocacy.
2. IV can do the micro managing, then we need to raise more money - to pay for the people - which means members have to pay more money regularly to pay consistently for the people working and for the year round advocacy.
3. IV is doing the good work (if I may say so). I wrote earlier, that if any member had a question on IV and its workings, all they have to do is call up - you will find out about what we do directly from us. But I am yet to hear a phone ring on that reason. You can make up your mind on to support us or not.
4. Holding every member's word as that of IV is unfair and unrealistic. Please refrain from it.

Again, if we decide to be civil to each other, we solve this problem. That is an individual choice - that each one you (and us) have to take.

Debate about a problem and try to find a solution. But asking people to convince anyone of anything on open forums is not realistic. If members are so inclined to believe in a cause, they will find ways to learn about it and work on it.

Volunteers of this organization are just like you. With jobs, families, financial constraints.......

You - every member and not directed at any one particular member.

IV needs more dedicated volunteers or more consistent donor members to get what members are asking for. Each member, please decide what you would like to do - help IV regularly and be civil or pay money so that IV can get the work done. The choice is yours.

We work with what we have.

StarSun
03-28-2011, 10:45 AM
Back to the topic.

IV still needs members to participate in the advocacy days in DC on Apr 4th and 5th. Interested members, please contact me. Thanks.

Check out what our adversaries are doing: http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/2483483-post174.html

imh1b
03-28-2011, 11:30 AM
This is the precise reason I am staying away from IV, people just dont show any civility in the forum discussions and starts name calling or shot down the people who ask questions.

If IV comes up with just one single GOAL of reducing the curent EB backlog for the restorgressed categories, people even from RoW countries will start participating in IV campaign and support IV's advocacy efforts in terms of their donations and volunteering for IV.

Reducing the current EB backlog will help everyone.

If you are staying away from IV, why are you coming to IV and posting on IV. :D
Deep in your heart you are pissed being in EB3 India and 2003 PD. Guess what your wait is longer than you think. This is all because you have chosen to not do anything about your situation and want others to do it for you for free.

EBX-Man
03-28-2011, 01:12 PM
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snathan
03-28-2011, 01:41 PM
This is the precise reason I am staying away from IV, people just dont show any civility in the forum discussions and starts name calling or shot down the people who ask questions.

If IV comes up with just one single GOAL of reducing the curent EB backlog for the restorgressed categories, people even from RoW countries will start participating in IV campaign and support IV's advocacy efforts in terms of their donations and volunteering for IV.

Reducing the current EB backlog will help everyone.

You guys are really great to find all these lame excuses not to participate.

Uncertain
03-30-2011, 04:38 PM
For new members:

The following are some of the items on the Agenda (someone correct me if anything is missing/incorrect):
-Re-capture of unused visa numbers
-Removing country specific limits
-Not counting dependants in the visa number count
-STEM exemption
-Allowing people to file I-485 and get EAD even when their priority date is not current.

April 4th and 5th, 2011: Advocacy days in Washington DC

April 30th, 2011: Deadline for pushing forward with the Initiative to file I-485 even when PD is not current.
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One of the items in the agenda for the April 4th and 5th, 2011: Advocacy days in Washington DC is "-Allowing people to file I-485 and get EAD even when their priority date is not current." but the deadline for voting on this is April 30th, 2011.

Am I reading incorrectly?

tonyHK12
03-30-2011, 09:40 PM
One of the items in the agenda for the April 4th and 5th, 2011: Advocacy days in Washington DC is "-Allowing people to file I-485 and get EAD even when their priority date is not current." but the deadline for voting on this is April 30th, 2011.

Am I reading incorrectly?

The April 30th deadline is to get enough numbers for the public action items to be carried out in which thousands will participate in contacting USCIS and other related departments.
This public action item needs in the range of 10-20,000 participants to succeed.

We are also campaigning for this on April 4th -5th with meetings involving a couple of hundred people with offices in DC.

bugsbunny
04-10-2011, 09:15 PM
[B]Today is March 27, 2011. And I have 2 Tasks for interested members.

1. Find a fourth lawyer to give advice for free for an entire hour - preferably on a Thursday.
2. Help in compiling a FAQ, that will assist any new member to find his/her way through the forums.

Thank you guys for starting this conversation.

I have gotten my lawyer to agree to be Lawyer number 4
been trying to contact StarSun who may be a bit busy...is there anyone else who also helps to co-ordinate the lawyer conference call on thursdays?

pappu
04-10-2011, 09:55 PM
I have gotten my lawyer to agree to be Lawyer number 4
been trying to contact StarSun who may be a bit busy...is there anyone else who also helps to co-ordinate the lawyer conference call on thursdays?

Please send an email or a private message to starsun