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View Full Version : 5 reasons why you should not participate in the advocacy event this year....


cleopatra
02-22-2011, 03:01 PM
By participate I mean being in DC for the event or donating airmiles or donating funds for the event.

5. You love getting disappointed by looking at Visa bulletins every month.

It is a way of life for you. You eagerly wait for the bulletin and get disappointed when it is released. You love the suffering this creates and there is nothing you would do to get rid if this scenario. It is just too important for you.

4. You love to track and predict

You absolutely love to track how people who started their process almost a decade ago are getting their GC now. You are fascinated by how each year, the wait time increases exponentially.

You love to either predict or read prediction threads. You can't do without the rush that you get when you predict or analyze a prediction using your excellent analytical skills, even though important and necessary factors are missing for the prediction to come true.

The joy of predictions..ah...what will you do if you get your GC?

3. You love the fight.

Come on. Admit it. You the love the fight between EB2 vs Eb3 vs I vs C vs legal vs illegal etc..You love to fight or read about it or moderate it. Who wants a GC faster when you can indulge in the joy of being in a hostile environment. The negative energy, stupidity, arrogance and the ignorance of the members fighting is sheer pleasure that you cannot live without.

2. You are just lazy

The classic age old laziness. What joy is there in getting you GC sooner? You may live a free life without any worries. The sheer ecstasy of being being worried about your future, that your laziness ensures you get, cannot be compared with anything else you experience.

The joy of inaction that ensures getting your GC a few years or possibly decades later or not all is in no way comparable to the pain of getting your GC soon by working on advocacy to fix your issues.

and the drum rolls please for the top reason.....

1. You love the limbo.

Who doesn't? The ultimate joy in the world. The state of uncertainty. You just cannot compare anything else you would want in this world than for the joy of being in this limbo.

The excitement that envelopes you when you think:
a. of whether you will get your GC ever or
b. of your uncertain future for you and your family or
c. that you will get your GC in a decade or not at all due to anti-immigrant measures that may pop up soon

is nothing to sneeze at.

You just love the limbo you and your family are in. Who would want to let go of this wonderful state and have a certain future. come on.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the above is not true for you and your family, do yourself and your family a great favor and give yourself and your family the gift of getting your GC sooner by participating in this advocacy day in the following ways.

1. Participate in the event in D.C.
There is no substitute for this. Please come to D.C for the event. There is nothing more important you can do to get your GC sooner than by participating in the advocacy and making this event a grand success.

Thread for attending the event
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1901186-action-item-advocacy-days-in-washington-dc-in-april-2011-a-6.html

2. Donate

If you can't absolutely make it to the event no matter how much you try, then help your family by donating for this event.

a. First go to the thread below and donate as much as you can. How much do you ask? How much is your GC worth to you? I would suggest at least $100. if you won't, at least $50. If for some genuine reason you just cannot afford this, then donate whatever you can.

Thread for Contrubution of funds..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904554-action-item-advocacy-day-contributions-13.html

b. Then go to this thread and done your airmiles. You may be planning to use it later. But consider this as your contribution for someone else to attend on your behalf. Unless you are using your miles to come to the DC event, please contribute whatever miles you have so that another person willing to come to the event can attend this on your behalf.

Thread for Contrubution of airmiles, carpooling etc..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904645-advocacy-day-air-miles-carpooling-and-hosting-members-in-dc-4.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are stuck in this limbo and read this and still don't contribute in anyway, be proud.

You belong to the elite group of idiots who think the world will come around to give you what you want, without you ever putting in any effort or asking for it.

That is the recipe for success. Keep at it and teach it to your kids. After all, suckers are not just born. It is a talent you learn and acquire. You have it. Cherish it and pass it on to your kids.

chanduv23
02-22-2011, 05:26 PM
By participate I mean being in DC for the event or donating airmiles or donating funds for the event.

5. You love getting disappointed by looking at Visa bulletins every month.

It is a way of life for you. You eagerly wait for the bulletin and get disappointed when it is released. You love the suffering this creates and there is nothing you would do to get rid if this scenario. It is just too important for you.

4. You love to track and predict

You absolutely love to track how people who started their process almost a decade ago are getting their GC now. You are fascinated by how each year, the wait time increases exponentially.

You love to either predict or read prediction threads. You can't do without the rush that you get when you predict or analyze a prediction using your excellent analytical skills, even though important and necessary factors are missing for the prediction to come true.

The joy of predictions..ah...what will you do if you get your GC?

3. You love the fight.

Come on. Admit it. You the love the fight between EB2 vs Eb3 vs I vs C vs legal vs illegal etc..You love to fight or read about it or moderate it. Who wants a GC faster when you can indulge in the joy of being in a hostile environment. The negative energy, stupidity, arrogance and the ignorance of the members fighting is sheer pleasure that you cannot live without.

2. You are just lazy

The classic age old laziness. What joy is there in getting you GC sooner? You may live a free life without any worries. The sheer ecstasy of being being worried about your future, that your laziness ensures you get, cannot be compared with anything else you experience.

The joy of inaction that ensures getting your GC a few years or possibly decades later or not all is in no way comparable to the pain of getting your GC soon by working on advocacy to fix your issues.

and the drum rolls please for the top reason.....

1. You love the limbo.

Who doesn't? The ultimate joy in the world. The state of uncertainty. You just cannot compare anything else you would want in this world than for the joy of being in this limbo.

The excitement that envelopes you when you think:
a. of whether you will get your GC ever or
b. of your uncertain future for you and your family or
c. that you will get your GC in a decade or not at all due to anti-immigrant measures that may pop up soon

is nothing to sneeze at.

You just love the limbo you and your family are in. Who would want to let go of this wonderful state and have a certain future. come on.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the above is not true for you and your family, do yourself and your family a great favor and give yourself and your family the gift of getting your GC sooner by participating in this advocacy day in the following ways.

1. Participate in the event in D.C.
There is no substitute for this. Please come to D.C for the event. There is nothing more important you can do to get your GC sooner than by participating in the advocacy and making this event a grand success.

Thread for attending the event
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1901186-action-item-advocacy-days-in-washington-dc-in-april-2011-a-6.html

2. Donate

If you can't absolutely make it to the event no matter how much you try, then help your family by donating for this event.

a. First go to the thread below and donate as much as you can. How much do you ask? How much is your GC worth to you? I would suggest at least $100. if you won't, at least $50. If for some genuine reason you just cannot afford this, then donate whatever you can.

Thread for Contrubution of funds..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904554-action-item-advocacy-day-contributions-13.html

b. Then go to this thread and done your airmiles. You may be planning to use it later. But consider this as your contribution for someone else to attend on your behalf. Unless you are using your miles to come to the DC event, please contribute whatever miles you have so that another person willing to come to the event can attend this on your behalf.

Thread for Contrubution of airmiles, carpooling etc..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904645-advocacy-day-air-miles-carpooling-and-hosting-members-in-dc-4.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are stuck in this limbo and read this and still don't contribute in anyway, be proud.

You belong to the elite group of idiots who think the world will come around to give you what you want, without you ever putting in any effort or asking for it.

That is the recipe for success. Keep at it and teach it to your kids. After all, suckers are not just born. It is a talent you learn and acquire. You have it. Cherish it and pass it on to your kids.

This is a perfect message for a newsletter. Post this in a newsletter. Past newsletter never carried such messages, instead, they only urge people to do something for themselves. Huh - do you think people will read "Come to DC and participate in advocacy ...." and book their ticket?

Post these kind of messages in newsletters and make people think about what they have not been doing.

SGP
02-22-2011, 05:47 PM
By participate I mean being in DC for the event or donating airmiles or donating funds for the event.

5. You love getting disappointed by looking at Visa bulletins every month.

It is a way of life for you. You eagerly wait for the bulletin and get disappointed when it is released. You love the suffering this creates and there is nothing you would do to get rid if this scenario. It is just too important for you.

4. You love to track and predict

You absolutely love to track how people who started their process almost a decade ago are getting their GC now. You are fascinated by how each year, the wait time increases exponentially.

You love to either predict or read prediction threads. You can't do without the rush that you get when you predict or analyze a prediction using your excellent analytical skills, even though important and necessary factors are missing for the prediction to come true.

The joy of predictions..ah...what will you do if you get your GC?

3. You love the fight.

Come on. Admit it. You the love the fight between EB2 vs Eb3 vs I vs C vs legal vs illegal etc..You love to fight or read about it or moderate it. Who wants a GC faster when you can indulge in the joy of being in a hostile environment. The negative energy, stupidity, arrogance and the ignorance of the members fighting is sheer pleasure that you cannot live without.

2. You are just lazy

The classic age old laziness. What joy is there in getting you GC sooner? You may live a free life without any worries. The sheer ecstasy of being being worried about your future, that your laziness ensures you get, cannot be compared with anything else you experience.

The joy of inaction that ensures getting your GC a few years or possibly decades later or not all is in no way comparable to the pain of getting your GC soon by working on advocacy to fix your issues.

and the drum rolls please for the top reason.....

1. You love the limbo.

Who doesn't? The ultimate joy in the world. The state of uncertainty. You just cannot compare anything else you would want in this world than for the joy of being in this limbo.

The excitement that envelopes you when you think:
a. of whether you will get your GC ever or
b. of your uncertain future for you and your family or
c. that you will get your GC in a decade or not at all due to anti-immigrant measures that may pop up soon

is nothing to sneeze at.

You just love the limbo you and your family are in. Who would want to let go of this wonderful state and have a certain future. come on.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the above is not true for you and your family, do yourself and your family a great favor and give yourself and your family the gift of getting your GC sooner by participating in this advocacy day in the following ways.

1. Participate in the event in D.C.
There is no substitute for this. Please come to D.C for the event. There is nothing more important you can do to get your GC sooner than by participating in the advocacy and making this event a grand success.

Thread for attending the event
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1901186-action-item-advocacy-days-in-washington-dc-in-april-2011-a-6.html

2. Donate

If you can't absolutely make it to the event no matter how much you try, then help your family by donating for this event.

a. First go to the thread below and donate as much as you can. How much do you ask? How much is your GC worth to you? I would suggest at least $100. if you won't, at least $50. If for some genuine reason you just cannot afford this, then donate whatever you can.

Thread for Contrubution of funds..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904554-action-item-advocacy-day-contributions-13.html

b. Then go to this thread and done your airmiles. You may be planning to use it later. But consider this as your contribution for someone else to attend on your behalf. Unless you are using your miles to come to the DC event, please contribute whatever miles you have so that another person willing to come to the event can attend this on your behalf.

Thread for Contrubution of airmiles, carpooling etc..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904645-advocacy-day-air-miles-carpooling-and-hosting-members-in-dc-4.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are stuck in this limbo and read this and still don't contribute in anyway, be proud.

You belong to the elite group of idiots who think the world will come around to give you what you want, without you ever putting in any effort or asking for it.

That is the recipe for success. Keep at it and teach it to your kids. After all, suckers are not just born. It is a talent you learn and acquire. You have it. Cherish it and pass it on to your kids.

Well said Cleopatra.;)
_______________________
If you will be benefited by “I-485 filing without current priority Date”, please vote YES on the Poll.
Then please send an email to ivcoordinator@gmail.com with subject - "I485 filing without current PD - Impacted Member". Include your 1) IV username 2) Email address 3) Ph#, 4) State of Residence, 5)Priority Date so that grassroot efforts can be coordinated. Please refer to the first post on the thread and use the flier,talk to your friends/colleagues to spread the message.We need all members to get involved.

indigokiwi
02-24-2011, 12:20 AM
^^^^^^^

furiouspride
02-24-2011, 01:11 AM
Very well put out post. Kudos :up:

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 09:58 AM
If you are stuck in this limbo and read this and still don't contribute in anyway, be proud. You belong to the elite group of idiots who think the world will come around to give you what you want, without you ever putting in any effort or asking for it.
Thank you for insulting people out here as elite group of idiots . Nothing comes for free in america except for insults.

That is the recipe for success. Keep at it and teach it to your kids.
I would teach any kid not to be suckered into anything

After all, suckers are not just born. It is a talent you learn and acquire. You have it. Cherish it and pass it on to your kids.
Wow ..............!!!

Thank you cleopatra for making things clear. Now after reading this post all will come forward and start contributing

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 10:23 AM
If you are stuck in this limbo and read this and still don't contribute in anyway, be proud. You belong to the elite group of idiots who think the world will come around to give you what you want, without you ever putting in any effort or asking for it.
Thank you for insulting people out here as elite group of idiots . Nothing comes for free in america except for insults.

That is the recipe for success. Keep at it and teach it to your kids.
I would teach any kid not to be suckered into anything

After all, suckers are not just born. It is a talent you learn and acquire. You have it. Cherish it and pass it on to your kids.
Wow ..............!!!

Thank you cleopatra for making things clear. Now after reading this post all will come forward and start contributing

Reds for this ?? Really !!!!!!!! :eek:

tonyHK12
02-24-2011, 10:41 AM
If you are stuck in this limbo and read this and still don't contribute in anyway, be proud. You belong to the elite group of idiots who think the world will come around to give you what you want, without you ever putting in any effort or asking for it.
Thank you for insulting people out here as elite group of idiots . Nothing comes for free in america except for insults.
Well maybe idiots probably isn't the exact word. IV is primarily an advocacy organization and everything, including chatting is only after that.
What Cleopatra meant is "What are you doing in a Grassroots effort if you're not participating?"


what do you mean you differ? You mean on advocacy? Or do you differ on doing something to fix our issues?
Do you differ on IVs policies?
do you want the freedom and rest that comes with doing nothing?

another one
02-24-2011, 11:00 AM
1)People who want to participate will participate and donít need this post.
2)People who donít want to participate will have 50 other reasons not to participate and will look at this and say WTF Cleopatra could only think of 5.
3)People who may participate, may like to do that but with people who donít lecture, even though it makes sense to participate with annoying people who share the common cause.

Sorry nothing constructive here.

cleopatra
02-24-2011, 11:43 AM
1)People who want to participate will participate and donít need this post.

Thanks to such people, there is at least a glimmer of hope of fixing our issues. If only others can shed their ignorance and join this group, we will get our fix very soon.

And this post was not aimed at these folks.


2)People who donít want to participate will have 50 other reasons not to participate and will look at this and say WTF Cleopatra could only think of 5.


Just 50? Come on, I am sure they can come up with more if they think along the lines of - "sun rises in the east" to "its cold in winter" :).

I just don't understand this. You can come up with different reasons for not participating, but are you going to get your GC sooner by choosing to not participate?

The equation is simple. You participate, you get a fix to your problems. You don't participate, you stay in this limbo or the situation gets worse due to anti-immigrant provisions that are sure to be introduced.

You have been quiet and did not participate for so long. Are you moving closer to your GC or to any fix? What makes you think that by continuing to do the same, all your problems will be fixed?

As they say, "Squeaky wheel gets the attention and the oil". Make noise through advocacy or perish in this limbo. Your choice.
[/QUOTE]


3)People who may participate, may like to do that but with people who donít lecture, even though it makes sense to participate with annoying people who share the common cause.

Sorry nothing constructive here.

If this is the case, I urge you to participate regardless of anyone you feel as annoying. As mentioned above, it does make sense to participate with annoying people who share the common cause to get a fix to your problems. Remember, you are not participating for the benefit of the annoying people. It is not a favor you are doing anyone. If you are in this limbo, you are helping yourself and your family by participating and you are hurting yourself and your family by not participating.

@another one:

All the above comments were not aimed at you. I use "You" to address people who might be thinking those same things and so this is not specifically addressed at you. Thanks for your comments and response to this.

You are entitled to your opinion that there is nothing constructive here. I respect that. In the same vein, I would request you to respect my opinion too.

Also if you note, this is meant to be a satire of what members usually do and not do to fix their issues. I am sure no one 'enjoys' being in limbo :).

(P.S. if anyone reading this actually enjoys being in this limbo, pls. consult your doc :) )

@Everyone else

You participate = You fix the issues.
You don't participate = You stay in limbo and not get any fix.

As simple as that. I am sure everyone who is reading this can participate in at least one of the three ways listed above. Please do. Help yourself and your family.

gc_peshwa
02-24-2011, 12:02 PM
Excellent riposte Cleo!!

chanduv23
02-24-2011, 12:39 PM
1)People who want to participate will participate and donít need this post.
2)People who donít want to participate will have 50 other reasons not to participate and will look at this and say WTF Cleopatra could only think of 5.
3)People who may participate, may like to do that but with people who donít lecture, even though it makes sense to participate with annoying people who share the common cause.

Sorry nothing constructive here.

This has always been the case. You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. The funny thing is "We ask people to help themselves, but they assume it as we are asking them to do a favor"

These folks will pass on the same mentality and attitude to their children and contribute towards making the world a worst place.

Don't fix issues, stay in limbo, live in mess, don't speak out, use loopholes, stay lazy.

In my opinion, those who decided not to help themselves are really pathetic kinds and unfortunately a lot of those who give lame excuses are basically leading pathetic lives.

During my day to day discussions with people, I see that the enterprising ones are true to their word and heart and believe in responsibilities unlike those crooks and losers who think people who do good things are fools, who laugh behind people who want to help (in directly they are laughing at their own selves), they want things to change but do nto want to do anything about it.

cleopatra
02-24-2011, 01:04 PM
This has always been the case. You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. The funny thing is "We ask people to help themselves, but they assume it as we are asking them to do a favor"

These folks will pass on the same mentality and attitude to their children and contribute towards making the world a worst place.

Don't fix issues, stay in limbo, live in mess, don't speak out, use loopholes, stay lazy.

In my opinion, those who decided not to help themselves are really pathetic kinds and unfortunately a lot of those who give lame excuses are basically leading pathetic lives.

During my day to day discussions with people, I see that the enterprising ones are true to their word and heart and believe in responsibilities unlike those crooks and losers who think people who do good things are fools, who laugh behind people who want to help (in directly they are laughing at their own selves), they want things to change but do nto want to do anything about it.

Well put.

And thanks for your participation in the advocacy event, even though you got your GC. Its people like you that put other lazy a**es to shame.

@others: if YOU are not participating:

Take a lesson from this person. Even after getting GC, they take part in the advocacy to fix YOUR issues. Wake up and start participating to fix YOUR issues.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 01:19 PM
Well put.

And thanks for your participation in the advocacy event, even though you got your GC. Its people like you that put other lazy a**es to shame.

@others: if YOU are not participating:

Take a lesson from this person. Even after getting GC, they take part in the advocacy to fix YOUR issues. Wake up and start participating to fix YOUR issues.

There is nothing great about Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg donating money to the poor

If you can get a average person to donate or participate
- Not by coercion, intimidating or calling names such as lazy a**es
but
- By convincing them of the result of donation or participating

Only then you have a case ....

tonyHK12
02-24-2011, 01:19 PM
These folks will pass on the same mentality and attitude to their children and contribute towards making the world a worst place.
......
In my opinion, those who decided not to help themselves are really pathetic kinds and unfortunately a lot of those who give lame excuses are basically leading pathetic lives.

.... unlike those crooks and losers who think people who do good things are fools, who laugh behind people who want to help (in directly they are laughing at their own selves).

Very true. The powers that be also know this all too well. If we show on public forums that a lot of us are "crooks & losers", most are eventually going to get deported or locked in endless wait. Don;t go showing the whole world your negative attributes, and back-stabbing/crab mentality.
Just think for a moment - Is this what it means to be American? Would Law makers want such people to become Americans?

However if you manage to show that most of you are hard working, helpful & positive people,who think and work with American values, you will get relief.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 01:26 PM
Very true. The powers that be also know this all too well. If we show on public forums that a lot of us are "crooks & losers", most are eventually going to get deported or locked in endless wait. Don;t go showing the whole world your negative attributes, and back-stabbing/crab mentality.
Just think for a moment - Is this what it means to be American? Would Law makers want such people to become Americans?

However if you manage to show that most of you are hard working, helpful & positive people,who think and work with American values, you will get relief.

News flash !

EB3 are also hard working, helpful & positive people,who think and work with American values, more so than some so called highly skilled and highly educated immigrants i know of

Where is the relief ??

tonyHK12
02-24-2011, 01:29 PM
News flash !

EB3 are also hard working, helpful & positive people,who think and work with American values, more so than some so called highly skilled and highly educated immigrants i know of

Where is the relief ??

I never said anything specific about EB2 or EB3. All your posts in this forum have been to incite a fight between EB3 and EB2. Reported to admins.


If you can get a average person to donate or participate
- Not by coercion, intimidating or calling names such as lazy a**es
but
- By convincing them of the result of donation or participating

Only then you have a case ....

Its your own case, not IVs case.
don't try to campaign against Immigration Voice on its own forum.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 01:49 PM
I never said anything specific about EB2 or EB3. All your posts in this forum have been to incite a fight between EB3 and EB2. Reported to admins.

Just because you say it does not mean it is true
All my post have been directed towards making clear that IV's stand should be towards relief of all categories of EB that includes EB1/2/3

Its your own case, not IVs case.
don't try to campaign against Immigration Voice on its own forum.
Yes it is my case not IV's case but ...
Since IV representing all EB immigrants and my case is part of the whole bunch of immigrants cases it makes my case and IV case the same
No one is campaigning against IV on this forum. I am an EB immigrant and i am talking about the impact of any rule or law changes to EB categories (yes that includes EB1, EB2 and please dont be surprised YES EB3 also)

tonyHK12
02-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Just because you say it does not mean it is true
All my post have been directed towards making clear that IV's stand should be towards relief of all categories of EB that includes EB1/2/3


Congrats on hijacking all Advocacy threads to start a fight. I already told you IV doesn't care what an anonymous free user wants. You're wasting everyones time (intentionally)

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 02:16 PM
Congrats on hijacking all Advocacy threads to start a fight. I already told you IV doesn't care what an anonymous free user wants. You're wasting everyones time (intentionally)

Yes i know IV doesn't care what an anonymous free user wants. What i am wondering about is that there are a whole bunch of anonymous free user out there on this forum. What is IV doing to get them to participate in advocacy. Last when i looked IV had 50 people confirmed for advocacy. I am sure IV needs more to make an impact ...

And what makes you think i am intentionally wasting everyones time here. In fact what makes you think that i am not contributing to anything here. Contribution does not just mean donating money and having a donor tag in your user name or offering to compile car pool details or offering to add up the total amount received by IV for advocacy every day or giving some one red just because his view is different from your view.
By the way i admire you for doing it but just because i do not do any or all of what you do does not mean i do not contribute. Everyone makes contribution in their own way.

Let just leave it at that ...........

cleopatra
02-24-2011, 02:21 PM
There is nothing great about Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg donating money to the poor


I am not talking about this either. It is their generosity that makes them donate. They are not donating to gain something for themselves. I am not referring to this.


If you can get a average person to donate or participate
- Not by coercion, intimidating or calling names such as lazy a**es
but
- By convincing them of the result of donation or participating

Only then you have a case ....

There is no coercion, intimidation or name calling here. I was only referring to the lazy a**es who will not get off their b**t to help themselves.

You want me to convince you there is a benefit to you participating in this event? I am not sure I will be able to. You know the reason.

From reading your other posts, I feel that either you are highly ignorant or you are an anti-immigrant who has nothing else to do. Either way I pity you.

All you do is try to incite a fight. Your posts just try to put down any initiatives taken to fix the issues and at the same time offer no other alternative solutions to fix the problems.

I do not know you and I have an open mind. Lets make a deal. If you have any alternate solutions to fix the issues, please feel free to come up with them and list them. If they are good, I will support them and will also spread the message about it. You don't have to convince me. I have enough common sense to recognize it when a tangible, feasible solution is presented to fix the issues. Deal?

@all others:

What other purpose is there to hold this event? Because a bunch of people (some of them with their GCs) want to visit D.C. for no reason at all? I am sure YOU are smarter than that :)

Doing nothing is not a solution to the problem and will not fix any of our issues. Participate in this event to fix our issues.

If you, currently in the limbo and the most to gain with fixing the issues, will not participate in this event, who do you think will do so on your behalf?

If you are not interested in a fix, who else do you think will work on a fix for YOUR problems? Nothing will happen unless YOU participate.

Participate for your family's benefit. Participate for your benefit.

cleopatra
02-24-2011, 02:33 PM
Yes i know IV doesn't care what an anonymous free user wants. What i am wondering about is that there are a whole bunch of anonymous free user out there on this forum. What is IV doing to get them to participate in advocacy. Last when i looked IV had 50 people confirmed for advocacy. I am sure IV needs more to make an impact ...

And what makes you think i am intentionally wasting everyones time here. In fact what makes you think that i am not contributing to anything here. Contribution does not just mean donating money and having a donor tag in your user name or offering to compile car pool details or offering to add up the total amount received by IV for advocacy every day or giving some one red just because his view is different from your view.
By the way i admire you for doing it but just because i do not do any or all of what you do does not mean i do not contribute. Everyone makes contribution in their own way.

Let just leave it at that ...........

Plainspeak,

There are 3 ways to contribute for this event:

1. Come to the event.
2. Make a financial contribution
3. Contribute airmiles, carpooling, host other members or help out logistically.

From what I know you are not doing any of the above three. How else are you contributing? Just curious.


Just because you say it does not mean it is true
All my post have been directed towards making clear that IV's stand should be towards relief of all categories of EB that includes EB1/2/3


1. Removing country cap.
2. Removing dependents from quota.
3. Recapture of lost visas.

This will help all categories to fix the current backlog and in future too.

How is this not clear that IV is trying to fix the issues for all categories?

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 02:33 PM
I am not talking about this either. It is their generosity that makes them donate. They are not donating to gain something for themselves. I am not referring to this.
This was meant in the context that a person having a GC does not need to be convinced about donating. It is their good nature that they are donating but there is no convincing involved. I am sure you know about the number of people who have confirmed to come for advocacy. I s it enough

I do not know you and I have an open mind.
And neither do i know you and let me calrify that i have an open mind too. But an open mind does not mean agreeing to every argument. An open mind would mean (according to me) looking at the logic of the arguement and making a decision. In the same context in corollory a closed mind would be rejecting arguement because the idea clashes with your idea

Lets make a deal. If you have any alternate solutions to fix the issues, please feel free to come up with them and list them.
Deal. My alternate solution is that the 50 k DV lottery visa which is going to PHD's and which according to another member post (Ghost) is what IV is advocating to be used for highly skilled immigrants should be changed to benefit Skilled Immigrants who are most retrogressed irrespective of category.

If they are good, I will support them and will also spread the message about it.
BTW i did list and talk about it before but was shot down by everyone asking me if i can raise 15 k for an IV ad to support it. Now if IV is using that as a talking point in the advocacy why can IV not advocate for benefiting Skilled Immigrants who are most retrogressed irrespective of category. After all is not IV for all immigrants

You don't have to convince me. I have enough common sense to recognize it when a tangible, feasible solution is presented to fix the issues. Deal?
I am not trying to convince you. If you agree to my idea then i woudlbe VERY VERY VERY surprised. Instead I am waiting for your valid rebuttal as i believe you have enough common sense

chanduv23
02-24-2011, 02:37 PM
There is nothing great about Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg donating money to the poor

If you can get a average person to donate or participate
- Not by coercion, intimidating or calling names such as lazy a**es
but
- By convincing them of the result of donation or participating

Only then you have a case ....

I don't run IV organization, but have been a member for a while and participated in a lot of campaigns, I ran some campaigns in past when people faced AC21 issues. I found it very difficult to convince an average person to help themselves. People are just not interested and they feel we are asking them for some favor.
Doing IV type campaigns for common good is a tireless and a thankless job. On the good side, I made a lot of nice friends who think like me and who appreciate good things.

I agree that some people genuinely want to do things and can be convinced rather than coerced, but such kinds are very small.

"Lazy A**es* is the exact RIGHT word. Other factors like inhibitions, attitude, ego etc.. also play a huge role.

Smart ones and caring ones are the ones who can overcome such things and move ahead.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 02:51 PM
1. Come to the event.
No as of today but there is still time till the atcual advocacy day

2. Make a financial contribution
I would not like to talk about this anymore as it leads to conflict of interest between plainspeak point of view and others point of view which i would like to keep under wraps :o

3. Contribute airmiles,
No airmiles to contribute

3. Contribute carpooling, host
Do not reside in tristate region to car pool and host

3. help out logistically
No Comments

From what I know you are not doing any of the above three. How else are you contributing? Just curious.
If you say so ...............

1. Removing country cap.
Country cap is there for a reason of diversity and no change will happen here

2. Removing dependents from quota.
Dependents have a seperate 485 for a reason and no change will happen here

3. Recapture of lost visas.
Is not going to happen and even if this happens what is the gaurantee that we will get enough to clear backlog. What i see happening (If it happens which i seriously doubt) is that we might get a percentage of whole visa and that will just be enough to clear EB2 till 2010 as teh spillover rule will be followed. And after that happens all the EB3 will be told to try and port to better their situation or donate for another advocacy down the line in the future


This will help all categories to fix the current backlog and in future too.
If that happen 100 % yes but what will actually happen is a piece meal result and that will help only the high skilled category to an certain extent and EB3 wil be told to try for porting after it happens and so on and so forth ....

How is this not clear that IV is trying to fix the issues for all categories?
I think i answered that above

snathan
02-24-2011, 02:54 PM
There is nothing great about Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg donating money to the poor

If you can get a average person to donate or participate
- Not by coercion, intimidating or calling names such as lazy a**es
but
- By convincing them of the result of donation or participating

Only then you have a case ....

I donít think we need to convince people and let them rot in hell. Then they will know what *&*( they are into. They are not doing any favor for anyone but themselves

A man doesn't know what he knows until he knows what he doesn't know...

Mr. Brown
02-24-2011, 02:55 PM
This is probably the worst cheer-leading I've known. I get it that you are all excited and anxious to get stuff done but insulting people and calling them idiots makes you look a fcuking prick. Keep your suggestions to yourself and don't tell me how I need to raise my kids.

If this is the kind of diplomacy we (as in you all) are going to show in DC then we (as in you all) are doing more damage than good to the EB community. Your pompous cheer-leading act ain't gonna work with them DC diplomats. So I sure hope the IV leadership makes sure of your absence among important meetings.

Spread the message and leave the melodramatic crap.


By participate I mean being in DC for the event or donating airmiles or donating funds for the event.

5. You love getting disappointed by looking at Visa bulletins every month.

It is a way of life for you. You eagerly wait for the bulletin and get disappointed when it is released. You love the suffering this creates and there is nothing you would do to get rid if this scenario. It is just too important for you.

4. You love to track and predict

You absolutely love to track how people who started their process almost a decade ago are getting their GC now. You are fascinated by how each year, the wait time increases exponentially.

You love to either predict or read prediction threads. You can't do without the rush that you get when you predict or analyze a prediction using your excellent analytical skills, even though important and necessary factors are missing for the prediction to come true.

The joy of predictions..ah...what will you do if you get your GC?

3. You love the fight.

Come on. Admit it. You the love the fight between EB2 vs Eb3 vs I vs C vs legal vs illegal etc..You love to fight or read about it or moderate it. Who wants a GC faster when you can indulge in the joy of being in a hostile environment. The negative energy, stupidity, arrogance and the ignorance of the members fighting is sheer pleasure that you cannot live without.

2. You are just lazy

The classic age old laziness. What joy is there in getting you GC sooner? You may live a free life without any worries. The sheer ecstasy of being being worried about your future, that your laziness ensures you get, cannot be compared with anything else you experience.

The joy of inaction that ensures getting your GC a few years or possibly decades later or not all is in no way comparable to the pain of getting your GC soon by working on advocacy to fix your issues.

and the drum rolls please for the top reason.....

1. You love the limbo.

Who doesn't? The ultimate joy in the world. The state of uncertainty. You just cannot compare anything else you would want in this world than for the joy of being in this limbo.

The excitement that envelopes you when you think:
a. of whether you will get your GC ever or
b. of your uncertain future for you and your family or
c. that you will get your GC in a decade or not at all due to anti-immigrant measures that may pop up soon

is nothing to sneeze at.

You just love the limbo you and your family are in. Who would want to let go of this wonderful state and have a certain future. come on.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the above is not true for you and your family, do yourself and your family a great favor and give yourself and your family the gift of getting your GC sooner by participating in this advocacy day in the following ways.

1. Participate in the event in D.C.
There is no substitute for this. Please come to D.C for the event. There is nothing more important you can do to get your GC sooner than by participating in the advocacy and making this event a grand success.

Thread for attending the event
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1901186-action-item-advocacy-days-in-washington-dc-in-april-2011-a-6.html

2. Donate

If you can't absolutely make it to the event no matter how much you try, then help your family by donating for this event.

a. First go to the thread below and donate as much as you can. How much do you ask? How much is your GC worth to you? I would suggest at least $100. if you won't, at least $50. If for some genuine reason you just cannot afford this, then donate whatever you can.

Thread for Contrubution of funds..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904554-action-item-advocacy-day-contributions-13.html

b. Then go to this thread and done your airmiles. You may be planning to use it later. But consider this as your contribution for someone else to attend on your behalf. Unless you are using your miles to come to the DC event, please contribute whatever miles you have so that another person willing to come to the event can attend this on your behalf.

Thread for Contrubution of airmiles, carpooling etc..
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904645-advocacy-day-air-miles-carpooling-and-hosting-members-in-dc-4.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are stuck in this limbo and read this and still don't contribute in anyway, be proud.

You belong to the elite group of idiots who think the world will come around to give you what you want, without you ever putting in any effort or asking for it.

That is the recipe for success. Keep at it and teach it to your kids. After all, suckers are not just born. It is a talent you learn and acquire. You have it. Cherish it and pass it on to your kids.

snathan
02-24-2011, 02:57 PM
:D1. Come to the event.
No as of today but there is still time till the atcual advocacy day

2. Make a financial contribution
I would not like to talk about this anymore as it leads to conflict of interest between plainspeak point of view and others point of view which i would like to keep under wraps :o

3. Contribute airmiles,
No airmiles to contribute

3. Contribute carpooling, host
Do not reside in tristate region to car pool and host

3. help out logistically
No Comments

From what I know you are not doing any of the above three. How else are you contributing? Just curious.
If you say so ...............

1. Removing country cap.
Country cap is there for a reason of diversity and no change will happen here

- there is no reason. One needs skill and education to perform the work and not the country of origin.
2. Removing dependents from quota.
Dependents have a seperate 485 for a reason and no change will happen here

Every thing is for a reason including the EB3 back log.

3. Recapture of lost visas.
Is not going to happen and even if this happens what is the gaurantee that we will get enough to clear backlog. What i see happening (If it happens which i seriously doubt) is that we might get a percentage of whole visa and that will just be enough to clear EB2 till 2010 as teh spillover rule will be followed. And after that happens all the EB3 will be told to try and port to better their situation or donate for another advocacy down the line in the future

I would be happy if there is a private bill to get the GC for me and my spouse only....

This will help all categories to fix the current backlog and in future too.
If that happen 100 % yes but what will actually happen is a piece meal result and that will help only the high skilled category to an certain extent and EB3 wil be told to try for porting after it happens and so on and so forth ....

give me...give me and only me.
How is this not clear that IV is trying to fix the issues for all categories?
I think i answered that above

I think you got all the answers now...

snathan
02-24-2011, 03:01 PM
This is probably the worst cheer-leading I've known. I get it that you are all excited and anxious to get stuff done but insulting people and calling them idiots makes you look a fcuking prick. Keep your suggestions to yourself and don't tell me how I need to raise my kids.

If this is the kind of diplomacy we are going to show in DC then we are doing more damage than good to the EB community. Your pompous cheer-leading act ain't gonna work with them DC diplomats. So I sure hope the IV leadership makes sure of your absence among important meetings.

Spread the message and leave the melodramatic crap.

1. The post is not about you until you are also the elite member.
2. Who are 'we' here...if you are participating you wouldnt get offended...otherwise you are not part of the 'We'.

Chill out.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 03:04 PM
This is probably the worst cheer-leading I've known. I get it that you are all excited and anxious to get stuff done but insulting people and calling them idiots makes you look a fcuking prick. Keep your suggestions to yourself and don't tell me how I need to raise my kids.

If this is the kind of diplomacy we are going to show in DC then we are doing more damage than good to the EB community. Your pompous cheer-leading act ain't gonna work with them DC diplomats. So I sure hope the IV leadership makes sure of your absence among important meetings.

Spread the message and leave the melodramatic crap.

Thank you for the support. It is this attitude which i am trying to fight against.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 03:05 PM
I donít think we need to convince people and let them rot in hell. Then they will know what *&*( they are into. They are not doing any favor for anyone but themselves

A man doesn't know what he knows until he knows what he doesn't know...

Again Pass ...

Mr. Brown
02-24-2011, 03:07 PM
Not sure what you mean but a difference of opinion doesn't make one an "elite member". Updated the post to be more specific.

1. The post is not about you until you are also the elite member.
2. Who are 'we' here...if you are participating you wouldnt get offended...otherwise you are not part of the 'We'.

Chill out.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 03:07 PM
:D

I think you got all the answers now...

How utterly predictable and dependable you are
Again !!!!!! Pass ................

snathan
02-24-2011, 03:08 PM
How utterly predictable and dependable you are
Again !!!!!! Pass ................

Good...keep that 'Pass' and its good for every one.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 03:08 PM
1. The post is not about you until you are also the elite member.
2. Who are 'we' here...if you are participating you wouldnt get offended...otherwise you are not part of the 'We'.

Chill out.

I think this time i donot even need to pass becasue some one else has the same doubts as i do about this post

snathan
02-24-2011, 03:09 PM
I think this time i donot even need to pass becasue some one else has the same doubts as i do about this post

But so many people has the same doubt about you as I do.:(

cleopatra
02-24-2011, 03:12 PM
I am not talking about this either. It is their generosity that makes them donate. They are not donating to gain something for themselves. I am not referring to this.
This was meant in the context that a person having a GC does not need to be convinced about donating. It is their good nature that they are donating but there is no convincing involved. I am sure you know about the number of people who have confirmed to come for advocacy. I s it enough


There is no number that is 'enough'. We need as many people to come in as possible. It is not some kind of 'minimum' required to make it a success. The more the merrier. If we get 50000 people to attend the event, we will have HUGE exposure and may even be able to get a fix to ALL the issues within the next 2 months.


I do not know you and I have an open mind.
And neither do i know you and let me calrify that i have an open mind too. But an open mind does not mean agreeing to every argument. An open mind would mean (according to me) looking at the logic of the arguement and making a decision. In the same context in corollory a closed mind would be rejecting arguement because the idea clashes with your idea


Is this not what you are doing? Because you think IV is not working for all categories, while facts state otherwise, you are putting down the initiatives taken to fix the problems.


Lets make a deal. If you have any alternate solutions to fix the issues, please feel free to come up with them and list them.
Deal. My alternate solution is that the 50 k DV lottery visa which is going to PHD's and which according to another member post (Ghost) is what IV is advocating to be used for highly skilled immigrants should be changed to benefit Skilled Immigrants who are most retrogressed irrespective of category.

If they are good, I will support them and will also spread the message about it.
BTW i did list and talk about it before but was shot down by everyone asking me if i can raise 15 k for an IV ad to support it. Now if IV is using that as a talking point in the advocacy why can IV not advocate for benefiting Skilled Immigrants who are most retrogressed irrespective of category. After all is not IV for all immigrants

You don't have to convince me. I have enough common sense to recognize it when a tangible, feasible solution is presented to fix the issues. Deal?
I am not trying to convince you. If you agree to my idea then i woudlbe VERY VERY VERY surprised. Instead I am waiting for your valid rebuttal as i believe you have enough common sense

I totally agree with you. While I would love to have this idea implemented, you will also have to weigh this against the reality.

Look at it from the lawmakers' perspective. There are 2 problems with this.

1. Lawmakers need to be aware of the HUGE backlog in place. USCIS conveniently defines backlog as those pending adjudication when visa numbers are available. If visa numbers are not available to approve the 485 or people are unable to file 485 due to visa number unavailability, they don't consider it as a backlog.

From USCIS perspective, their SLA is 4 months after a 485 is filed. Since all applications get cleared within this timeframe there is no backlog.

While retrogression is something you and I understand and use it fluently, try talking about it to some layman without any knowledge of the immigration system. You will see the reality.

So first we need to make it clear to everyone that there is a problem here. For this we need advocacy. Unless we participate in this event, there is no way to present our problems, let alone find a fix to them.

2. Though reality may be otherwise, how do you convince someone that a person in retrogression is equally or more valuable than a person with PHD.

The immigration system has a preference for a reason. It was designed so that people who are most sought after will have less hassles when they immigrate. There is no doing away with this.

So the sensible way is to ensure that instead of wasting leftover visas after PHDs are accomodated, we can only hope to ask to use these visas within the current framework so that once they are exhausted, it is percolated down to others also.

Think of it this way: which is easier? Appealing to their sense of fairness (by asking these to be allocated to most retrogressed candidates) or appealing them to use these within the framework so that their intention is also satisfied and we also get some relief. This way phds who are probably in EB1 or EB2 get their share and any left overs are allocated to others.

While this may sound bad at first, think of the larger picture. It is not that IV wants to work only for certain categories, it is just the ground reality that forces certain decisions. We need to reach for the lower hanging fruit. That is all we can do with the numbers that we have.

Even with all these, if we are able to remove country quota, dependents from quota and recapture lost visas, all current backlogs will be cleared and will help FIFO processing of applications.

So in a nutshell, the reality dictates the strategy.

I hope you see what I am saying.

pbuckeye
02-24-2011, 03:12 PM
+1.

Lets not get personal and negative. It will achieve nothing.

Can I also add another way you can contribute to this event:

4. Spread the message about this event to people outside of IV. I talked to at least 20 people who knew nothing about this but are now looking at the advocacy day thread. What they do from there, I leave it to them.

I would also recommend this - Instead of just forwarding the newsletter, I think its better to write a personal note to your friends/colleagues with a link to the IV thread.

chanduv23
02-24-2011, 03:15 PM
+1.

Lets not get personal and negative. It will achieve nothing.

Can I also add another way you can contribute to this event:

4. Spread the message about this event to people outside of IV. I talked to at least 20 people who knew nothing about this but are now looking at the advocacy day thread. What they do from there, I leave it to them.

I would also recommend this - Instead of just forwarding the newsletter, I think its better to write a personal note to your friends/colleagues with a link to the IV thread.

This is a good approach. Talk about it. Convince your friends. Keep doing it. Usually you get 1 to 2 % success. Thats how things have been.

It would be great if people actually understand the importance of such things.

chanduv23
02-24-2011, 03:31 PM
+1.

Lets not get personal and negative. It will achieve nothing.

Can I also add another way you can contribute to this event:

4. Spread the message about this event to people outside of IV. I talked to at least 20 people who knew nothing about this but are now looking at the advocacy day thread. What they do from there, I leave it to them.

I would also recommend this - Instead of just forwarding the newsletter, I think its better to write a personal note to your friends/colleagues with a link to the IV thread.

A lot of people are still ignorant about the situation. Many assume things. They think visa bulletin will move magically. A lot of people are very ignorant about the process. A lot of people don't understand advocacy. A lot of people are not having time or they may have other issues and genuine reasons for not being active. A lot of people just don't understand the details on how all these things work. Educating these folks works - sometimes quick, sometimes slow.

But then apart from the above minority, there is this majority freeloaders who are lazy, egoistic, attitude and don't want to do anything. I have met some people who think it is not cool to do this kind of stuff, some get shy. I hope these folks realize what they are doing and change their ways.

Some of you say, why bother about these folks who will not change. But, I have noticed that these folks do what they are doing because they think what they do is right. So nothing wrong in poking at these folks.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 03:35 PM
There is no number that is 'enough'. We need as many people to come in as possible. It is not some kind of 'minimum' required to make it a success. The more the merrier. If we get 50000 people to attend the event, we will have HUGE exposure and may even be able to get a fix to ALL the issues within the next 2 months.
The maximum numbers will come form EB3 becasue they are the most retrogressed or maybe they have seen their category shafted in so many ways that theyhave lost hope.

Is this not what you are doing? Because you think IV is not working for all categories, while facts state otherwise, you are putting down the initiatives taken to fix the problems.
Everytime some law gets made or a rule interpreted EB3 gets shafted. Al the time its is EB3which loses number and EB3 doe snot even get its yearly miserly quota completely. So any initiative which does not specifically address most badly retrogressed category directly is not going to get support

Rest
If we talk about reality than i can see that IV cannot do anything for EB3. Not for the want of trying but because reality (as stated by you) is that EB3 is the least preferenced category. That does make me wonder about the qualification of a fresh MS for EB2 when compared to skill set of peopl in EB3 but that is a different fight. As you have so clearly stated there is no hope for EB3.

What is going to happen is that CIR will be introduced in another 5 years and that big group of people will be placed in EB3 (of coruse because EB3 is the least preferenced category) and all teh EB3 people wil be advised to port to EB2.

cleopatra
02-24-2011, 03:35 PM
This is probably the worst cheer-leading I've known. I get it that you are all excited and anxious to get stuff done but insulting people and calling them idiots makes you look a fcuking prick. Keep your suggestions to yourself and don't tell me how I need to raise my kids.


This is not cheer-leading and certainly this is not excitement. I am just pissed off to see people who have a stake in this event, not participate in it in anyway.

I don't care how it makes me look. And I am free to give my suggestions and will in future too, you are free to pick and choose what you implement :).


If this is the kind of diplomacy we (as in you all) are going to show in DC then we (as in you all) are doing more damage than good to the EB community. Your pompous cheer-leading act ain't gonna work with them DC diplomats. So I sure hope the IV leadership makes sure of your absence among important meetings.

Spread the message and leave the melodramatic crap.

If it will help the event, i hope the leadership makes sure of my absence. I will gladly step aside.

This pompous cheer-leading act is to get people to participate. If you don't think this event is for you, why are you here? If you think this advocacy event will not move us closer to a fix to the problems, what do you think will?

What have you done to fix the problems? How has it worked out for you so far?

As someone else mentioned, there is no "we" until YOU participate. Participate in this event and then we will talk about "we".

Regardless of my comments above, realize that the post is a satire and whatever I have expressed in the end is my own opinion.

BTW, If you think what you are doing is correct, then you should pass it on to your kids. Why are you offended by it?

imh1b
02-24-2011, 03:38 PM
Guy is an EB (idiot). Ignore and move on.

snathan
02-24-2011, 03:41 PM
There is no number that is 'enough'. We need as many people to come in as possible. It is not some kind of 'minimum' required to make it a success. The more the merrier. If we get 50000 people to attend the event, we will have HUGE exposure and may even be able to get a fix to ALL the issues within the next 2 months.
The maximum numbers will come form EB3 becasue they are the most retrogressed or maybe they have seen their category shafted in so many ways that theyhave lost hope.
Is this not what you are doing? Because you think IV is not working for all categories, while facts state otherwise, you are putting down the initiatives taken to fix the problems.
Everytime some law gets made or a rule interpreted EB3 gets shafted. Al the time its is EB3which loses number and EB3 doe snot even get its yearly miserly quota completely. So any initiative which does not specifically address most badly retrogressed category directly is not going to get support

Rest
If we talk about reality than i can see that IV cannot do anything for EB3. Not for the want of trying but because reality (as stated by you) is that EB3 is the least preferenced category. That does make me wonder about the qualification of a fresh MS for EB2 when compared to skill set of peopl in EB3 but that is a different fight. As you have so clearly stated there is no hope for EB3.

What is going to happen is that CIR will be introduced in another 5 years and that big group of people will be placed in EB3 (of coruse because EB3 is the least preferenced category) and all teh EB3 people wil be advised to port to EB2.

If you lost hope - you want others to work for you, fix and revive your hope ? If you are getting affected dont you need to fight to fix it? Why you expect others to fix for you ?

pbuckeye
02-24-2011, 03:45 PM
Some of you say, why bother about these folks who will not change. But, I have noticed that these folks do what they are doing because they think what they do is right. So nothing wrong in poking at these folks.

Sure, its just that I think its more effective to "poke" your friends/colleagues instead of anonymous posters on a forum.

For the forum, IMHO its probably better to stick to logical reasoning rather than indulging in rhetoric.

cleopatra
02-24-2011, 03:46 PM
There is no number that is 'enough'. We need as many people to come in as possible. It is not some kind of 'minimum' required to make it a success. The more the merrier. If we get 50000 people to attend the event, we will have HUGE exposure and may even be able to get a fix to ALL the issues within the next 2 months.
The maximum numbers will come form EB3 becasue they are the most retrogressed or maybe they have seen their category shafted in so many ways that theyhave lost hope.

Is this not what you are doing? Because you think IV is not working for all categories, while facts state otherwise, you are putting down the initiatives taken to fix the problems.
Everytime some law gets made or a rule interpreted EB3 gets shafted. Al the time its is EB3which loses number and EB3 doe snot even get its yearly miserly quota completely. So any initiative which does not specifically address most badly retrogressed category directly is not going to get support

Rest
If we talk about reality than i can see that IV cannot do anything for EB3. Not for the want of trying but because reality (as stated by you) is that EB3 is the least preferenced category. That does make me wonder about the qualification of a fresh MS for EB2 when compared to skill set of peopl in EB3 but that is a different fight. As you have so clearly stated there is no hope for EB3.

What is going to happen is that CIR will be introduced in another 5 years and that big group of people will be placed in EB3 (of coruse because EB3 is the least preferenced category) and all teh EB3 people wil be advised to port to EB2.

I see the way you twist my words and interpret things the way you want. I did genuinely try to see if you had a real reason for doing what you are doing.

You just enjoy the negative energy. I do not. You like the status quo. I do not. You are not ready to do anything if it does not have a guaranteed way of fixing your issues. That is not the approach i like to take.

Unless you are willing to work on it, you will not get a fix to any of your issues. Even an airplane makes continual changes to its course to reach its correct destination. If they decided to not move until every inch is planned to reach the destination, there would be no air travel today.

The status quo is wait time of over 2 or 3 decades to get a relief for EB3I. So what do you have to loose by working on this? Maybe this will help you too. Give it a try. You may be surprised.

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 03:49 PM
If you lost hope - you want others to work for you, fix and revive your hope ? If you are getting affected dont you need to fight to fix it? Why you expect others to fix for you ?

I know that i will get GC in 2025. No scratch that I hope that i wil get GC in 2025
You are one of the others and what you plan to do will not help EN3 I and my case specifically in any way so whay would i want others (You) to do anything for me becasue teh fact is you cannot do anything for me or EB3. Yes i am getting effected and i need to fight to fix it but why will fight for sdomething which will not help fix the issue?

snathan
02-24-2011, 03:50 PM
I know that i will get GC in 2025. No scratch that I hope that i wil get GC in 2025
You are one of the others and what you plan to do will not help EN3 I and my case specifically in any way so whay would i want others (You) to do anything for me becasue teh fact is you cannot do anything for me or EB3. Yes i am getting effected and i need to fight to fix it but why will fight for sdomething which will not help fix the issue?

You are fighting with wrong people, for wrong reason and in the wrong place.

If you want to fight, meet your senator/congressmen and explain the EB3 back log.

Gather people and fight to fix it. If you don’t want just keep quit.
Fighting here is not going to fix anything.

tonyHK12
02-24-2011, 03:51 PM
You are fighting with wrong people, for wrong reason and in the wrong place.

Yes PlainSpeak has always done this before. Even though we give a logical explanation, he/she will always start a new fight.
No normal person posts 50+ messages per day (so far). Most of them starting a fight with someone.

desigirl
02-24-2011, 04:03 PM
You cannot convince someone who does not want to be convinced. Leave plainspeak alone. For every response you give, he comes back. Don't give him the fodder to feed on :D

He has pretty much lost hope on all of IV provisions, but has hope for the 50K diversity visa! He believes this can be done. Let him live in the world he chooses to.

This post is specifically not addressed to plainspeak, but to others...

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 04:15 PM
Its clear there are many who are frustrated. I feel there is a better way to convince people to contribute. I have been registered with this site for several years now. I hardly know much about this organization. sure there is a nice little bio on here of core members but what role do they play on a daily basis? is this organization a democracy where people get elected to posts every year or do the people running it pledge to run it forever? why is information hidden from non-donors? Where can i find site admins...do i have to search forum posts or is there some place that lists them? what are the goals for advocacy? who decides? is there a vote?
i can go on with a list of serious concerns about IV
once people are convinced of a well run organization and see where exactly their money or time will be spent then i am sure there will be many more contributions made.

snathan
02-24-2011, 04:21 PM
Its clear there are many who are frustrated. I feel there is a better way to convince people to contribute. I have been registered with this site for several years now. I hardly know much about this organization. sure there is a nice little bio on here of core members but what role do they play on a daily basis? is this organization a democracy where people get elected to posts every year or do the people running it pledge to run it forever? why is information hidden from non-donors? Where can i find site admins...do i have to search forum posts or is there some place that lists them? what are the goals for advocacy? who decides? is there a vote?
i can go on with a list of serious concerns about IV
once people are convinced of a well run organization and see where exactly their money or time will be spent then i am sure there will be many more contributions made.

First you will have to understand IV is run by volunteers who has a full time job and family to take care. More most of the IV core people are alreay GC holders and no one is getting paid for their time and effort. The only goal is to fix the back log.

We can not make everything public as there are so many vested interest and will harm our efforts. We do not have enough support, resource to declare a open war like undocumented people. So we will have to keep thing under wraps. If you want to tak part, there are various groups working on various fix. Join one those group, spend time and you will understand and appreciate what the volunteers are doing.

Thanks,

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 04:21 PM
I see the way you twist my words and interpret things the way you want. I did genuinely try to see if you had a real reason for doing what you are doing.
You just enjoy the negative energy. I do not. You like the status quo. I do not. You are not ready to do anything if it does not have a guaranteed way of fixing your issues. That is not the approach i like to take.
There you go. I thought you wanted to convince me and you go off on a tangent about negetive energy and how you do not like the approach.

Unless you are willing to work on it, you will not get a fix to any of your issues. Even an airplane makes continual changes to its course to reach its correct destination. If they decided to not move until every inch is planned to reach the destination, there would be no air travel today.
To that analogy i say that everyone in te plane will eventually reach their destination. Only EB3 will be left on the runaway

The status quo is wait time of over 2 or 3 decades to get a relief for EB3I. So what do you have to loose by working on this? Maybe this will help you too. Give it a try. You may be surprised.
Please remember i am a member since 2006. I did send flowers to USCIS like everyone but I have seen how it works now. Try for advocacy make some rule change which causes some category to get benefit and as always EB3 is left hanging and all the scantimonius advice EB3 gets is there is no hope for you so go ahead and port as if porting is a COTS product which anyone can buy to get their GC fixed. And to add salt to injury some IV members bitch about porting and how it is illegal. And i see thsi repeating again and again and hence my dillusion about the current process

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 04:22 PM
You are fighting with wrong people, for wrong reason and in the wrong place.

If you want to fight, meet your senator/congressmen and explain the EB3 back log.

Gather people and fight to fix it. If you donít want just keep quit.
Fighting here is not going to fix anything.

No one is fighting with anyone here and No i am not fighting with you

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 04:25 PM
Yes PlainSpeak has always done this before. Even though we give a logical explanation, he/she will always start a new fight.
No normal person posts 50+ messages per day (so far). Most of them starting a fight with someone.

Yes this has happened before and wil happen again but not because of me but because i see no logical explanation about how EB3 category retrogression will end. All i have heard is hopes and at the end of the day it comes back to Port or get stuck. The same advise like broken record

If a normal person works their ass of during the night and posts 50+ messages during the day then it is sleepless nights for that person, why do you care about my mental status as to starting a fight i repeat again no one is fighting least of all me

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 04:28 PM
First you will have to understand IV is run by volunteers who has a full time job and family to take care. More most of the IV core people are alreay GC holders and no one is getting paid for their time and effort. The only goal is to fix the back log.

We can not make everything public as there are so many vested interest and will harm our efforts. We do not have enough support, resource to declare a open war like undocumented people. So we will have to keep thing under wraps. If you want to tak part, there are various groups working on various fix. Join one those group, spend time and you will understand and appreciate what the volunteers are doing.

Thanks,

Quite True !!!!

See i can agree when it makes sense and i dont always disagree :D

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 04:35 PM
First you will have to understand IV is run by volunteers who has a full time job and family to take care. More most of the IV core people are alreay GC holders and no one is getting paid for their time and effort. The only goal is to fix the back log.

We can not make everything public as there are so many vested interest and will harm our efforts. We do not have enough support, resource to declare a open war like undocumented people. So we will have to keep thing under wraps. If you want to tak part, there are various groups working on various fix. Join one those group, spend time and you will understand and appreciate what the volunteers are doing.

Thanks,
I think many on here appreciate the time and effort put in by IV members and the central Goal is also understood by many but that still leaves most of my questions unanswered.
Instead of getting basic org info i am asked to join groups
Fine. Where are the working groups? and how to join?

snathan
02-24-2011, 04:41 PM
I think many on here appreciate the time and effort put in by IV members and the central Goal is also understood by many but that still leaves most of my questions unanswered.
Instead of getting basic org info i am asked to join groups
Fine. Where are the working groups? and how to join?

Contact Start Sun...basic info you can get it from the about page. Financial info and strategy stays only with core group just product our interest.

actaccord
02-24-2011, 04:52 PM
and thanks for your effort

Now I am looking for poster design.... you are welcome to join the design group ? http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1905849-need-creative-people-for-advocacy-day-poster-creation.html

Also, we are forming a group to participate in the coming advocacy day you are welcome to join in that too... http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1901186-action-item-advocacy-days-in-washington-dc-in-april-2011-a.html

Also, we are forming a group to contribute air miles, car pool, hosting.... you are welcome to join that group

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904645-advocacy-day-air-miles-carpooling-and-hosting-members-in-dc.html


Also we are forming a group to contribute financially you are welcome to join in that also...

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1904554-action-item-advocacy-day-contributions.html


Let me know which group(s) you would like to join, you don't have to reach StarSun for joining any group. If you feel you need more personal attention for your participation on these groups let me know your contact details (you can PM me) I will call you everyday evening and we can work together for success of this coming advocacy.


I think many on here appreciate the time and effort put in by IV members and the central Goal is also understood by many but that still leaves most of my questions unanswered.
Instead of getting basic org info i am asked to join groups
Fine. Where are the working groups? and how to join?

forever_waiting
02-24-2011, 04:57 PM
I do not understand the reason for your frustration. So you are frustrated with IV for not convincing you enough to speak up for your cause and your and your family's good??
Well. If you want updates on day to day activities of IV and high-level org info, try sending a PM to pappu, Admin1 or starsun. In between coordinating IV lobbyists, scheduling advocacy day meetings with 400 lawmakers, trying to convince media to publish our Op-Eds/articles and several other tasks they are involved with (outside of their 9-5 jobs and family affairs), they might be able to squeeze in some time to answer your question about the organization and its day to day activities, that they work on inspite of getting their green cards 2-3 yrs back.

For groups, following are google groups of few (5-10) volunteers like you and me who work on some action items from time to time, as needed -
485 filing IV initiative - you may not be interested since, based on your profile, you have file I-485. But helping out might not harm

IV Media Group - contacting local/national publications to publish our Op-Eds, articles and member interviews

CountryCapCaricatureGroup - creating cartoons for Advocacy packet

ivcoordinator@gmail.com has to approve requests to join the group.
The common idea is that there are hundreds of folks working furiously for IV and that there should be newsflashes and huge updates everyday. But considering the commitment of our community to solving the problem (outside of the infighting and arguments evident here), you will be surprised to know that we have very few grass roots volunteers outside of IV Core (maybe 15-20) who are really trying to contribute by meeting lawmakers or working in the groups above.

I think many on here appreciate the time and effort put in by IV members and the central Goal is also understood by many but that still leaves most of my questions unanswered.
Instead of getting basic org info i am asked to join groups
Fine. Where are the working groups? and how to join?

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 06:07 PM
I spoke with StarSun
I'll contribute in any way i can
The point and focus of my post on here was to make IV a little more open and welcoming towards new members. There is understandable frustration among many. Taking it out on each other is simply a waste of time.

sage2006
02-24-2011, 06:32 PM
Understand.
In general, the basic challenge boils down to what was mentioned in forever_waiting's previous post. It would have been great if IV had the neccessary resources and people to focus on PR and educating and incorporating new members into relevant immigration advocacy activities. But the bottom line is we have very few grass roots volunteers and so one cannot expect the corporate structure with hundreds of volunteers being assigned specific duties. We all have 9-5 jobs and keep in touch via the forum and chip in when IV-core needs efforts on a particular action item (or ongoing action items like meeting lawmakers).
We are a grass roots org and the onus is on the member to seek out information ways to participate (contact starsun..maybe a 2nd, 3rd or 4th time if you do not hear back immediately - since she is single-handedly coordinating memberships, supporting IV core etc). There is a wiki site with plenty of resources as well. Once people actually get involved and get an opportunity to have a conversation with pappu or aman, you will never again question IV's intent or honesty.
Blaming the IV platform for not reaching out to you is a misconception....the actual approach should be the other way around.
You now know the groups involved now and you know the people to contact. Hope that answered your questions. See you in DC in April.. Hopefully.

I spoke with StarSun
I'll contribute in any way i can
The point and focus of my post on here was to make IV a little more open and welcoming towards new members. There is understandable frustration among many. Taking it out on each other is simply a waste of time.

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 06:49 PM
IV reaching out to new members is taboo?
Why are you reaching out to lawmakers....because you want them to make favorable laws benefiting immigrants....will they do it without your reaching out...maybe...but most likely not
so reaching out makes a difference isn't it
You want more members to contribute and help out...but you want to do it without reaching out to them. Think about it...ya it might happen...but won't you get better results and more resources if you reach out.

I didn't blame anyone for anything...nor did i question anyone's efforts or intentions...i was simply seeking basic information about the organization and how it is run....i am guessing here ...but i think this is the first question on people's minds when they decide to contribute or not...a good PR campaign to promote IV among existing 1000's of members on this site won't be a bad thing

I am well versed in technology and i have offered my help in this area

tonyHK12
02-24-2011, 06:55 PM
IV reaching out to new members is taboo?
....
.but i think this is the first question on people's minds when they decide to contribute or not...a good PR campaign to promote IV among existing 1000's of members on this site won't be a bad thing

I am well versed in technology and i have offered my help in this area

nope its not taboo. what Ashwin was saying is we generally have only 5-10 people available to volunteer for such tasks.
I would say, sure go ahead and come up with a plan for PR, and once StarSun has reviewed it you can implement it.

We also tried PR on other websites and papers, but very few came forward for funding.

snathan
02-24-2011, 07:07 PM
IV reaching out to new members is taboo?
Why are you reaching out to lawmakers....because you want them to make favorable laws benefiting immigrants....will they do it without your reaching out...maybe...but most likely not
so reaching out makes a difference isn't it
but you want to do it without reaching out to them. Think about it...ya it might happen...but won't you get better results and more resources if you reach out.

I didn't blame anyone for anything...nor did i question anyone's efforts or intentions...i was simply seeking basic information about the organization and how it is run....i am guessing here ...but i think this is the first question on people's minds when they decide to contribute or not...a good PR campaign to promote IV among existing 1000's of members on this site won't be a bad thing

I am well versed in technology and i have offered my help in this area

Wrong...no one is helping IV...its other way around. Now tell me who needs to contact who.

We are reaching to law makers as we want a favor from them. But IV is - I + We.....I am here because I want help myself and you are here because you want to help yourself.

We are not doing any favor to IV or any one else. We are here because we are suffering and need a way out.

forever_waiting
02-24-2011, 07:16 PM
Just curious...are you and ryandacosta the same person? ..you seemed to refer to his previous post as your own..so got me thinking. Never mind.
Anyway, no one said it is taboo. As it has been clarified, where are the resources/people?? And it all depends on what exactly you mean by "reaching out"?
If you have some good ideas.. thats great. Please follow-up and share it with the forum and IV-core.
we have folks coming up with great ideas but then vanish and never follow-up only to return and complain that the idea was not implemented. So best approach is to take it up as an action item and do it yourself. Surely there will be volunteers here who will be glad to help.

IV reaching out to new members is taboo?
Why are you reaching out to lawmakers....because you want them to make favorable laws benefiting immigrants....will they do it without your reaching out...maybe...but most likely not
so reaching out makes a difference isn't it
You want more members to contribute and help out...but you want to do it without reaching out to them. Think about it...ya it might happen...but won't you get better results and more resources if you reach out.

I didn't blame anyone for anything...nor did i question anyone's efforts or intentions...i was simply seeking basic information about the organization and how it is run....i am guessing here ...but i think this is the first question on people's minds when they decide to contribute or not...a good PR campaign to promote IV among existing 1000's of members on this site won't be a bad thing

I am well versed in technology and i have offered my help in this area

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 07:24 PM
thats great and PR should be an ongoing thing and for now i can contribute some time towards this. It doesn't have to be expensive either.
I am guessing here but our target is "employment based GC seekers for more contribution towards IV". It is very specific. A newspaper is too general of a medium for such a specific target.
Where can we find them? on a immigration lawyer's website? maybe
There are plenty of immigration lawyers that support our cause...maybe some will be willing to put up a graphic or link about us on their sites for free.

This is just one suggestion. I am sure members can come up with several ideas.
Ask the members what they would like from IV? How can they contribute?
(not telling them to rot in hell for refusing to help would be a start in getting a civil conversation going :-) )

chanduv23
02-24-2011, 07:25 PM
IV reaching out to new members is taboo?
Why are you reaching out to lawmakers....because you want them to make favorable laws benefiting immigrants....will they do it without your reaching out...maybe...but most likely not
so reaching out makes a difference isn't it
You want more members to contribute and help out...but you want to do it without reaching out to them. Think about it...ya it might happen...but won't you get better results and more resources if you reach out.

I didn't blame anyone for anything...nor did i question anyone's efforts or intentions...i was simply seeking basic information about the organization and how it is run....i am guessing here ...but i think this is the first question on people's minds when they decide to contribute or not...a good PR campaign to promote IV among existing 1000's of members on this site won't be a bad thing

I am well versed in technology and i have offered my help in this area

I agree that it is not well organized and it is actually very difficult to run an organization like this.
When I talk about inaction - I am not talking about uninformed people - I am talking about well informed people who decided they wont do anything for valid/invalid reasons and lack of interest and whatever.
Please do not misunderstand anyone who is trying different methods to send a signal.

In a corporate environment which is structured, everything is packaged (good and bad) and presented in a pleasant way, but this is different, we cannot expect people to "offer" you a nice deal, rather those who volunteer and do tasks tirelessly and thanklessly go through a lot of stress dealing with different types of people.

It is simple, help yourself and let us all do it collectively. Please join hands with me, please bring your friends and please take this seriously. It is as simple as that.

This is a self help group and "though" I may not want to point at the organization leaders, but based on my talks with Pappu, Anu and other folks who run this organization, I noticed that they expect everyone to be well informed about the issues or processes, to think like they think, to come forward selflessly and act, but most people are not like that. They are wary, they want to know what this is all about , who runs this, who are the leaders.
I used to live in NYC and built the tri state group, I connected with a lot of people on a social basis, personal basis, conducted workshops , ran campaigns and a lot of people used to see me as the face of IV, I used to talk to media, answer questions on IV behalf etc.. used to go around with fellow members and stick posters, distribute leaflets, form teams and take them for lobbying, arrange logistics, I moved to Texas and don't do that anymore. And I totally understand what people are wanting.

To IV - We need some good leaders who can carry the face of IV to the people. Leaders who connect with people, who organize things and act as a PR for the organization. All that IV core team should do is to select very skilled and good leaders and let them do PR and connect with people. And everything will fall in place or, we keep seeing people fighting over each other, some people genuinely wanting to know things and some senior members not happy about questioning IV. This has been happening since IV was formed.

In my opinion, IV members must be extremely friendly to each other and connect on a regular basis. It helps solve our issue.

I hope people here do not get me wrong on what I said. This is my personal opinion, and IV must be dealing with lot of issues on a daily basis and must have their own ways of handling things.

snathan
02-24-2011, 07:31 PM
thats great and PR should be an ongoing thing and for now i can contribute some time towards this. It doesn't have to be expensive either.
I am guessing here but our target is "employment based GC seekers for more contribution towards IV". It is very specific. A newspaper is too general of a medium for such a specific target.
Where can we find them? on a immigration lawyer's website? maybe
There are plenty of immigration lawyers that support our cause...maybe some will be willing to put up a graphic or link about us on their sites for free.

This is just one suggestion. I am sure members can come up with several ideas.
Ask the members what they would like from IV? How can they contribute?
(not telling them to rot in hell for refusing to help would be a start in getting a civil conversation going :-) )

If you search there are lots of face book groups - Students, H1B. We can send message to those people. Can arrange Radio talk show, target people at temple, grocery shops, restaurants...etc.

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 07:32 PM
Wrong...no one is helping IV...its other way around. Now tell me who needs to contact who.

We are reaching to law makers as we want a favor from them. But IV is - I + We.....I am here because I want help myself and you are here because you want to help yourself.

We are not doing any favor to IV or any one else. We are here because we are suffering and need a way out.


Logically you are correct. But this is different from reality and you know this from lack of interest inspite of hundreds of regular visitors.
You be the judge.
Do you like the status quo of little help or you want to get more help n reach out?

snathan
02-24-2011, 07:37 PM
Logically you are correct. But this is different from reality and you know this from lack of interest inspite of hundreds of regular visitors.
You be the judge.
Do you like the status quo of little help or you want to get more help n reach out?

If the person is already visiting and not contributing do you think you can convince them...? You cannot wakeup a person who is just pretending. There are lots of people coming here to post their issues and get answer. But donít want to take part in anything until itís affecting them or just have junk in their mind and call it as principle.

They find 100 lame excuses for not participating but could not even find one reason to participate. You are right if the person is not aware of IVÖbut what about people who are aware but wants others to work for their issues.

chanduv23
02-24-2011, 07:47 PM
If the person is already visiting and not contributing do you think you can convince them...? You cannot wakeup a person who is just pretending. There are lots of people coming here to post their issues and get answer. But donít want to take part in anything until itís affecting them or just have junk in their mind and call it as principle.

They find 100 lame excuses for not participating but could not even find one reason to participate. You are right if the person is not aware of IVÖbut what about people who are aware but wants others to work for their issues.

snathan - It is true that people come here and want to freeload. U know the best as you do a lot of PR work for IV and your frustration about why people don't come forward is totally understandable.
Well, it is just not easy to convince people and organize people so easily that all you do is a "holler" and everyone follow. It takes time for people to realize.
Running public organization like this needs a very different kind of PR skills. A cheerful, caring, hopeful face brings in more support. Believe me thats how people look up to leaders.

snathan
02-24-2011, 07:51 PM
snathan - It is true that people come here and want to freeload. U know the best as you do a lot of PR work for IV and your frustration about why people don't come forward is totally understandable.
Well, it is just not easy to convince people and organize people so easily that all you do is a "holler" and everyone follow. It takes time for people to realize.
Running public organization like this needs a very different kind of PR skills. A cheerful, caring, hopeful face brings in more support. Believe me thats how people look up to leaders.

I completely agree with you.. But there are two sets of people. 1. Do not aware or do not have enough knowledge. You can convince them, help them and work with them.

2. There are people who are well aware of the issue, IV and thinks the volunteers are idiots, others will work, why should I spend my money or time. But they never waste an opportunity to question the accountability or what IV has achinved for them.


I do not have any issues with people who falls into category #1.

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 07:54 PM
If the person is already visiting and not contributing do you think you can convince them...? You cannot wakeup a person who is just pretending. There are lots of people coming here to post their issues and get answer. But donít want to take part in anything until itís affecting them or just have junk in their mind and call it as principle.

They find 100 lame excuses for not participating but could not even find one reason to participate. You are right if the person is not aware of IVÖbut what about people who are aware but wants others to work for their issues.

Your frustrations are somewhat justified.
As far as i see it IV serves 2 purposes ( i may be wrong here so feel free to correct me )
- First is Being a trove of free information and offering a free forum where people with similar issues can help each other out.
- Second is advocating for change to improve things for GC seekers

so there is no need to be frustrated if people are only doing the First and not the Second.
When i was on H1 i had no interest in the Second as advocating towards GC issues was irrelevant to me. Everyone has different reasons for not contributing ...if you truly know of 1000s of the reasons i would say lets make a list of those reasons...see what the top ten reasons are...and use that information to our advantage in the PR campaign :-) (i know its evil... but admit it..its a good idea ;-) )

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 08:10 PM
I am not disputing the fact the forum is used to post issues. But check who are all asking the accountability...? People who never donated a dime. How can they expect and question accountability for others money. First they will have to give and ask what happened to their money and how it was spend.

I dont want a non-donor come and ask how my donation was spend....

I'll offer 2 other perspectives to look at this

say you did not contribute or did not even vote for the politician who represents your district....do you still demand accountability? why? cause that politician is representing you... whether you like it or not
IV represents a common cause whether the GC seekers like it or not so it should not surprise you when they ask for accountability

As a second perspective
Say you are an investor and a hedge fun manager comes to you with a great investment in a company. Do you blindly trust what the hedge fund manager does with your money or do you want details about the investment and the company?
Nothing wrong with seeking information about the organization you want to invest in
Rather than being mad/frustrated you should be happy about a prospective interested investor!!

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 08:26 PM
If the person i s her help already visiting and not contributing do you think you can convince them...? You cannot wakeup a person who is just pretending. There are lots of people coming here to post their issues and get answer. But donít want to take part in anything until itís affecting them or just have junk in their mind and call it as principle.

They find 100 lame excuses for not participating but could not even find one reason to participate. You are right if the person is not aware of IVÖbut what about people who are aware but wants others to work for their issues.

I have never posted any issue to get an answer. It has been self help all the way and it is too much to expect you to understand about principle
I have 100 reasons for not participating because they are valid reason. This is a person who is aware of IV and just disagrees with the approach and no i do not want anyone (least of all someone like you) to work on my issues. I much prefer helping myself

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 08:31 PM
I am not disputing the fayioct the forum is used to post issues. But check who are all asking the accountability...? People who never donated a dime. How can they expect and question accountability for others money. First they will have to give and ask what happened to their money and how it wtaken ion of as spend.

I dont want a non-donor come and ask how my donation was spend....

Tell me something are you as IV even listening to what i am saying.
The answer is NO so what difference does it make if i donate or not
There is no question of freeloading because there is no advantage being taken for free

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 08:32 PM
I am not disputing the fact the forum is used to post issues. But check who are all asking the accountability...? People who never donated a dime. How can they expect and question accountability for others money. First they will have to give and ask what happened to their money and how it was spend.

I dont want a non-donor come and ask how my donation was spend....

I'll offer 2 other perspectives to look at this

say you did not contribute or did not even vote for the politician who represents your district....do you still demand accountability? why? cause that politician is representing you... whether you like it or not
IV represents a common cause whether the GC seekers like it or not so it should not surprise you when they ask for accountability

As a second perspective
Say you are an investor and a hedge fun manager comes to you with a great investment in a company. Do you blindly trust what the hedge fund manager does with your money or do you want details about the investment and the company?
Nothing wrong with seeking information about the organization you want to invest in
Rather than being mad/frustrated you should be happy about a prospective interested investor!!

Thank you bugsbunny i could not have said it better. I guess you have articulated what i have been saying in a clear and direct way

snathan
02-24-2011, 08:39 PM
I'll offer 2 other perspectives to look at this

say you did not contribute or did not even vote for the politician who represents your district....do you still demand accountability? why? cause that politician is representing you... whether you like it or not
IV represents a common cause whether the GC seekers like it or not so it should not surprise you when they ask for accountability

- I ask accountability because I pay the tax and its my money.

As a second perspective

Say you are an investor and a hedge fun manager comes to you with a great investment in a company. Do you blindly trust what the hedge fund manager does with your money or do you want details about the investment and the company?
Nothing wrong with seeking information about the organization you want to invest in
Rather than being mad/frustrated you should be happy about a prospective interested investor!!



- You can ask the question how your money is going to be invested and whats the expected return

- You can not ask what they did with money they charged the previoud investor.

Most importantly you can ask this questions if you are a potential investor. Not just for time pass or to find execuse.




OK. Lets stop this discussion and if you believe you can convince people, please go ahead and do that. Would be happy to join with you.

take care.

bugsbunny
02-24-2011, 08:39 PM
Tell me something are you as IV even listening to what i am saying.
The answer is NO so what difference does it make if i donate or not
There is no question of freeloading because there is no advantage being taken for free

So IV didn't listen...do you want truly want IV to listen? Help out...then maybe they will become better listeners lol

PlainSpeak
02-24-2011, 08:50 PM
So IV didn't listen...do you want truly want IV to listen? Help out...then maybe they will become better listeners lol

Now that is what i call PlainSpeak

chanduv23
02-24-2011, 10:04 PM
OK. Lets stop this discussion and if you believe you can convince people, please go ahead and do that. Would be happy to join with you.

take care.

shanmuganathan - I see nothing wrong in people questioning the credibility of IV or asking what happens to the funding. I also don't see anything wrong in IV not wanting to disclose its tax in public forum.
As far as I am concerned, IV is a organization that people must make best use of as a platform and thats why I stress on active participation.
I appreciate all your efforts, and would advice you not to get into things like "donors must only ask", or "How much have you contributed" or anything that goes on between IV as an organization and members. Instead, as a good IV member and a responsible citizen who wants to bring change, you must focus on encouraging and educating members. If a member has concerns about the organization, you can let the organization deal with it rather than attacking the member. Everyone is different and people may genuinely have questions or concerns. IV knows and deals with people appropriately.
If IV requests members to raise funds for projects like advocacy days, as a key member, you can do wonders by spreading the message and asking people to donate and actively participate in campaigns.

forever_waiting
02-25-2011, 12:05 AM
You asked some specific questions earlier to which, I think, at least some folks around here honestly tried to give answers and clarification. I believe you spoke with starsun as well.
To use your own logic, this is a grassroots org with no big PR agenda or "welcoming" department as of now because there is just not enough grassroots participation. But isnt it unfair to transfer blame to this platform for you not being given enough info, even before reaching out to someone like starsun and asking about whats going on? I hope that the information helped you to "trust" this IV platform, as you pointed out in your hedge fund example
I hope you will look at the overall picture and not let your opinion of IV get skewed by the noise added by some members who twist and turn facts according to their convenience. IV is not the United Nations or a governing body sitting above all. it is made up of folks like you and me who want to get out of this mess.
See you at the advocacy days in April

So IV didn't listen...do you want truly want IV to listen? Help out...then maybe they will become better listeners lol

bugsbunny
02-25-2011, 01:33 AM
You asked some specific questions earlier to which, I think, at least some folks around here honestly tried to give answers and clarification. I believe you spoke with starsun as well.
To use your own logic, this is a grassroots org with no big PR agenda or "welcoming" department as of now because there is just not enough grassroots participation. But isnt it unfair to transfer blame to this platform for you not being given enough info, even before reaching out to someone like starsun and asking about whats going on? I hope that the information helped you to "trust" this IV platform, as you pointed out in your hedge fund example
I hope you will look at the overall picture and not let your opinion of IV get skewed by the noise added by some members who twist and turn facts according to their convenience. IV is not the United Nations or a governing body sitting above all. it is made up of folks like you and me who want to get out of this mess.
See you at the advocacy days in April

ya i did get most of my questions answered by StarSun and one long-time request also fulfilled so i have setup a monthly contribution. Maybe i can help with PR or site maintenance. i do live on the other coast n vacation time is a luxury but i am sure there are many ways i can contribute. This may be a grassroots organization but theres no reason it can't progress toward a more professional and organized group. That will only enhance the chances of success :-)

chanduv23
02-25-2011, 06:30 AM
ya i did get most of my questions answered by StarSun and one long-time request also fulfilled so i have setup a monthly contribution. Maybe i can help with PR or site maintenance. i do live on the other coast n vacation time is a luxury but i am sure there are many ways i can contribute. This may be a grassroots organization but theres no reason it can't progress toward a more professional and organized group. That will only enhance the chances of success :-)

IV has been that way always and will never change its ways. IV is not really the type of organization fighting for rights or protesting against injustice or whatever. Instead, IV is a platform to advocate changes. Those who run IV work mostly on the other side of the wall - ie building relationships with other groups, media, influential personnel, law makers, other orgs etc.....

I don't blame people for expecting good PR from IV team. In my opinion, IV must expand and identify leaders with good PR skills who have the capabilities to represent the organization and interface with members. IV members can step up as leaders, and help with PR work. IV can also delegate some authority to its identified leaders if it works out. But based on my conversations with IV leads, it is obvious that it is very difficult to find such people who have the bandwidth to do all this and motivation levels change based on person to person. Consistency is not there and has always been a problem.

Most people come here because they have issue and want it resolved, and not to really go out of the way and take an additional step to do something about it.

As far as I am concerned, what motivates me to do what I do is the fact that I learn a lot of things here. I see a lot of intellect in some members and I love doing common good. These things drive me to the organization.

So, if PR is something you think is pulling you and others back, you can make best use of the opportunity to develop a PR network for IV and for yourself.

willigetgc?
02-25-2011, 10:24 AM
Members who want to help - start with spreading the word on advocacy days. Use the chapter groups to encourage members. Report your progress on IV threads.

If anyone has a question, ASK. Don't form an opinion (good or bad) and work from there without knowing the truth. Not only will you not know right from wrong, you will be spreading the wrong message to members who just read your posts.

IV has been an advocacy group from the start and it has never stated otherwise. It also provides us with a platform to find answers, link with people with similar problems, and is dedicatedly working towards a single goal of fixing the problems of backlogs. Donating is an individual choice - be it for the donor forum or for the advocacy efforts.

If you can help the cause, be active in your state chapter and report the progress you have made on IV threads. If you cannot, then read the threads and be inactive - but do not misinform.

willigetgc?
03-01-2011, 10:17 AM
Admins, are we able to get members from the mid western states to attend the advocacy event?

I don't have many friends from these states, but I have contacted everyone I know, given IV's number and also provided the numbers of my friends to starsun.

sathishav
03-01-2011, 10:23 AM
I guess there will be at least 5 members from the NC state chapter.

I also did talk to a few people in NC who did either not know about IV or the DC event. Maybe there will be more from NC.

Is there a place where we publish stats state wise with participation?

ravi98
03-18-2011, 11:36 AM
Pappu has mentioned about no participation from some states -
KS, NM, MO, UT, NE, IN - mainly mid western states, I think.

Do we not have anyone from these states? there are some big cities....

GC_1000Watt
03-18-2011, 01:36 PM
Pappu has mentioned about no participation from some states -
KS, NM, MO, UT, NE, IN - mainly mid western states, I think.

Do we not have anyone from these states? there are some big cities....

I lived in Omaha,NE for about 3 months in the year 2007, and I remember there is a large Indian community over there. It's hard to believe that there is nobody from there to represent NE.:confused:

StarSun
03-18-2011, 02:08 PM
I lived in Omaha,NE for about 3 months in the year 2007, and I remember there is a large Indian community over there. It's hard to believe that there is nobody from there to represent NE.:confused:

Please contact any friends you have from the state and convince them. Give them my number, and I will talk to them if needed.

We need representation.

After starting this campaign of getting members to register in end of Jan, we are still scrambling to get members from large cities - it is very disappointing, to be frank.