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pointlesswait
05-23-2008, 02:34 PM
When you call the law makers and tell them you support XYZ bill.. my question is what do you get out of it!

When the lawmaker realizes that he is getting 10000 calls from LEGAL aliens,
>who are not from his constituency,
>who can’t vote and
>who can’t contribute to his election campaign…
what is the motivation for the law maker to support the bill…

So to avoid sounding stupid and foolish and desperate when you call… a more logical approach would be to :
a) Generate a public petition form on IV website and have all the members’ login and sign the forms digitally…
b) Then have IV reps.. fax them and send them to lobby groups ….
c) Lawmakers will listen to one talking head…and not worry abt 1000 calls that borders on ..”saar …support the bill saar”..

How many of you have actually talked to the lawmakers? Its always the assistant!

But instead .. someone says we have a signed petition of 25000 members effected by immigration mess …. And it’s a hi tech workers lobby group ..every lawmaker will talk to you and not the assistant!

Conclusion: calling the lawmakers haphazardly is actually hurting IV cause..to a certain extent!

:cool:

mps
05-23-2008, 02:52 PM
Agree with you 100%

(note # I have been calling law-makers and would continue to do so until we reach a consensus)

mhathi
05-23-2008, 03:01 PM
I don't think I agree completely. I called all of the lawmakers for the CHC campaign, and while you are right, I spoke to the assistants, they were all polite and promised to pass on the message, which is what matters in the end.

Lawmakers know that we do not have voting privileges yet, but they also know that we are contributing to this economy far greater than many. I do not remember the source or the thread, but this question was asked before about an online petition, but ironically, that is shown to be not as effective as phone calls.

If you ask me to sign a piece of paper, I might do it even if I am only vaguely supportive of the idea. But I will certainly not take the trouble to call (or better yet) go to the senator/congressman's office and present my case in person unless I really beleive in it.

regarding your "saar.. support the bill..." comment, I would not go there if I were you. Thats a whole different can of worms and borders on an insult to a) people who are not from that part of India (or for that matter the world) and b) more importantly, for people from that part of the world who are in this country since a long time and have taken the pains to lose the accent.

Finally, even if one speaks in an accent, is that the sole reason for a lawmaker to disregard him? Then should a Tennessee senator not listen to someone from New York because the New yorker speaks English in a New York accent?

Please remember IV may be largely Indian, but it is a meeting place for legal immigrants from all over the world. The same way as India may be "largely Hindu" but it is still a secular country and we have had many great citizens and leaders that were not Hindu, the current president notwithstanding.

mariner5555
05-23-2008, 03:02 PM
I agree too with the original post by pointlesswait !! ..digital signature is good ..or if there is a site which allows people to show their support (I guess there are sites like these) .. also, in the document we should include these points (small and precise document) ..
- why legals are suffering
- advantages that legal immigration brings to US
- the effect of few senior professionals leaving the country etc .
..for e.g. ..if a senior programmer or lead gets frustrated and goes back then all this happens ..he / she takes the job away with him ..and in turn trains 10 other people (so more jobs go away). also along with a skilled person - all the investment and taxes are lost ..(for eg ..house + prop tax + living expenses etc etc) .. and the fact that US is turning older (i.e average age ..) etc etc
and a related point ..each IV member should try to contact 5 other immigrants and tell them about IV ..and they in turn should atleast show some sort of support

nixstor
05-23-2008, 03:07 PM
I am not sure how can one call it "absurdity" if 200 calls spread over 12 lawmakers got 2 law makers from the CHC co sponsor all three bills. ?

Digital signatures might help every IV member sign it off with out moving an inch. Web faxes and Digital signatures are NOT what we need. been there, done that and we know how it works.

I am not sure how the OP concluded that we are calling haphazardly. A lot of State chapters are talking with their rep's offices to get co sponsorship. If that's some thing of interest to you, work with your state chapter to see what they are doing in the chapter. I hope the OP would not say that calling a representative's office is haphazard.

nixstor
05-23-2008, 03:10 PM
I don't think I agree completely. I called all of the lawmakers for the CHC campaign, and while you are right, I spoke to the assistants, they were all polite and promised to pass on the message, which is what matters in the end.

Lawmakers know that we do not have voting privileges yet, but they also know that we are contributing to this economy far greater than many. I do not remember the source or the thread, but this question was asked before about an online petition, but ironically, that is shown to be not as effective as phone calls.

If you ask me to sign a piece of paper, I might do it even if I am only vaguely supportive of the idea. But I will certainly not take the trouble to call (or better yet) go to the senator/congressman's office and present my case in person unless I really beleive in it.

regarding your "saar.. support the bill..." comment, I would not go there if I were you. Thats a whole different can of worms and borders on an insult to a) people who are not from that part of India (or for that matter the world) and b) more importantly, for people from that part of the world who are in this country since a long time and have taken the pains to lose the accent.

Finally, even if one speaks in an accent, is that the sole reason for a lawmaker to disregard him? Then should a Tennessee senator not listen to someone from New York because the New yorker speaks English in a New York accent?

Please remember IV may be largely Indian, but it is a meeting place for legal immigrants from all over the world. The same way as India may be "largely Hindu" but it is still a secular country and we have had many great citizens and leaders that were not Hindu, the current president notwithstanding.

Very well answered and the sarcastic language the OP used just shows elitism and out of touch with the situation at hand.

RNGC
05-23-2008, 03:12 PM
You have a point...Ideas like yours should be given good consideration.

But IV core team has lots of experience and they have even started having talks with USICS directly, is'nt that a big achievement!

We need to try different ways to contact the law makers and find out which one is easy to implement and works efficiently.



When you call the law makers and tell them you support XYZ bill.. my question is what do you get out of it!

When the lawmaker realizes that he is getting 10000 calls from LEGAL aliens,
>who are not from his constituency,
>who can’t vote and
>who can’t contribute to his election campaign…
what is the motivation for the law maker to support the bill…

So to avoid sounding stupid and foolish and desperate when you call… a more logical approach would be to :
a) Generate a public petition form on IV website and have all the members’ login and sign the forms digitally…
b) Then have IV reps.. fax them and send them to lobby groups ….
c) Lawmakers will listen to one talking head…and not worry abt 1000 calls that borders on ..”saar …support the bill saar”..

How many of you have actually talked to the lawmakers? Its always the assistant!

But instead .. someone says we have a signed petition of 25000 members effected by immigration mess …. And it’s a hi tech workers lobby group ..every lawmaker will talk to you and not the assistant!

Conclusion: calling the lawmakers haphazardly is actually hurting IV cause..to a certain extent!

:cool:

nixstor
05-23-2008, 03:15 PM
as everyone will be only talking to the secretaries.. and message will not goto to law makers..

This is NOT correct. Most of the messages that these people receive will trickle down to the Legislative directors, Chief of Staff and the law maker him/her self. It's easy to imagine that our message does not get any where depending on different experiences we had in the past, but most of the times when there is a real good push from grass roots org, together with the lobbying activity, the message goes all the way. Whether we get support or not is a different story.

Oh B T W, 5882 and 5921 not only help EB but also FB. 5882 recaptures wasted FB numbers and 5921 increases the FB country limit to 10%.

add78
05-23-2008, 03:16 PM
The whole premise is influence. Meaning even though the lawmaker (representative) knows that the callers cannot vote or donate to his/her campaign yet, this "yet" is a powerful incentive. They know that sooner or later you will become a permanent resident and eventually a citizen and are already contributing towards the constituency by paying taxes, there will be an incentive to work for the agenda of tomorrow's influential populous. Therefore I believe that it will not hurt to call lawmakers and will make a strong show of support from his/her constituents. Of course, this is just one avenue and other avenues are also being pursued like petitions, lobbying, flyers, campaigns etc.

satishku_2000
05-23-2008, 03:19 PM
The whole premise is influence. Meaning even though the lawmaker (representative) knows that the callers cannot vote or donate to his/her campaign yet, this "yet" is a powerful incentive. They know that sooner or later you will become a permanent resident and eventually a citizen and are already contributing towards the constituency by paying taxes, there will be an incentive to work for the agenda of tomorrow's influential populous. Therefore I believe that it will not hurt to call lawmakers and will make a strong show of support from his/her constituents. Of course, this is just one avenue and other avenues are also being pursued like petitions, lobbying, flyers, campaigns etc.

Well said ..

gccovet
05-23-2008, 03:34 PM
When you call the law makers and tell them you support XYZ bill.. my question is what do you get out of it!

When the lawmaker realizes that he is getting 10000 calls from LEGAL aliens,
>who are not from his constituency,
>who can’t vote and
>who can’t contribute to his election campaign…
what is the motivation for the law maker to support the bill…

So to avoid sounding stupid and foolish and desperate when you call… a more logical approach would be to :
a) Generate a public petition form on IV website and have all the members’ login and sign the forms digitally…
b) Then have IV reps.. fax them and send them to lobby groups ….
c) Lawmakers will listen to one talking head…and not worry abt 1000 calls that borders on ..”saar …support the bill saar”..

How many of you have actually talked to the lawmakers? Its always the assistant!

But instead .. someone says we have a signed petition of 25000 members effected by immigration mess …. And it’s a hi tech workers lobby group ..every lawmaker will talk to you and not the assistant!

Conclusion: calling the lawmakers haphazardly is actually hurting IV cause..to a certain extent!

:cool:


Calling Law makers helps (All the calls are conveyed - in brief) the number matters.

By the way,
I do agree on getting digital signatures as well.
I will be there to support you whenever you take a lead and start the signature campaign though.



We can do both (call + signs).
GCCovet.

singhsa3
05-23-2008, 03:37 PM
For HR 5882, From 2 to...

COSPONSORS(13), ALPHABETICAL
Rep Abercrombie, Neil [HI-1] - 5/13/2008 Rep Capuano, Michael E. [MA-8] - 5/13/2008
Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31] - 5/13/2008 Rep Cuellar, Henry [TX-28] - 5/15/2008
Rep Davis, Tom [VA-11] - 4/24/2008 Rep Gilchrest, Wayne T. [MD-1] - 5/13/2008
Rep Honda, Michael M. [CA-15] - 5/13/2008 Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila [TX-18] - 5/13/2008
Rep Nadler, Jerrold [NY-8] - 5/22/2008 Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille [CA-34] - 5/22/2008
Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. [WI-5] - 4/23/2008 Rep Shadegg, John B. [AZ-3] - 5/13/2008
Rep Speier, Jackie [CA-12] - 5/22/2008

singhsa3
05-23-2008, 03:41 PM
Same thing for HR 5921
For HR 5882, From 2 to...

COSPONSORS(13), ALPHABETICAL
Rep Abercrombie, Neil [HI-1] - 5/13/2008 Rep Capuano, Michael E. [MA-8] - 5/13/2008
Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31] - 5/13/2008 Rep Cuellar, Henry [TX-28] - 5/15/2008
Rep Davis, Tom [VA-11] - 4/24/2008 Rep Gilchrest, Wayne T. [MD-1] - 5/13/2008
Rep Honda, Michael M. [CA-15] - 5/13/2008 Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila [TX-18] - 5/13/2008
Rep Nadler, Jerrold [NY-8] - 5/22/2008 Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille [CA-34] - 5/22/2008
Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. [WI-5] - 4/23/2008 Rep Shadegg, John B. [AZ-3] - 5/13/2008
Rep Speier, Jackie [CA-12] - 5/22/2008

singhsa3
05-23-2008, 03:45 PM
And the list is growing.
So please continue to call!

paskal
05-23-2008, 03:52 PM
these actions are not done "casually' or haphazardly"
we have created these strategies based on advice and feedback from the offices of friendly lawmakers, advice from professinal lobbyists and our own experience so far. the "assistants" you speak too keep running tallies of phone calls on a given issue and these are communicated regularly to legislative directors and lawmakers. digital signatures and even digital petitions are given less weight- handwritten snail mailed letters on the other hand are treated with great importance.

you may wish to google the nyt articles on how numbers usa operates to derail bills- they call! if our members would show the same enthusiasm and every single person would call when requested, we could have the same impact.

SunnySurya
05-23-2008, 03:54 PM
I think this should be highlighted as it conveys a very important message:

"you may wish to google the nyt articles on how numbers usa operates to derail bills- they call! if our members would show the same enthusiasm and every single person would call when requested, we could have the same impact."

these actions are not done "casually' or haphazardly"
we have created these strategies based on advice and feedback from the offices of friendly lawmakers, advice from professinal lobbyists and our own experience so far. the "assistants" you speak too keep running tallies of phone calls on a given issue and these are communicated regularly to legislative directors and lawmakers. digital signatures and even digital petitions are given less weight- handwritten snail mailed letters on the other hand are treated with great importance.

you may wish to google the nyt articles on how numbers usa operates to derail bills- they call! if our members would show the same enthusiasm and every single person would call when requested, we could have the same impact.

needhelp!
05-23-2008, 04:03 PM
Most of the Congressman offices are now well aware of the issues, phone campaign is not an attempt to explain them the details.
It is more of a push for them to take action by giving them a sense of how frustrated we are. Not many "normal" people would just pick up the phone and call a congressman, right?
While clicking a mouse button takes a fraction of a second, you would have to spend atleast a few minutes picking up your phone, have enough belief in your issue to have the courage to speak to a live person and convey your message.
We all love this, don't we :) :
http://gfx.dvlabs.com/klipmart/campaigns/sta001/images/easybutton_lg_top.gif

Green.Tech
05-23-2008, 04:05 PM
Excellent discussion!

Folks - We have gained a lot of ground with these calls as evident by singhsa's post...Please continue to call...For those who are on the fence, please pick up your phone and call now...10 minutes of your time spent now will be worth it in the long run...

Stand up for yourself!!!

needhelp!
05-23-2008, 04:06 PM
How many of you have actually talked to the lawmakers? Its always the assistant!


Some of us Have actually talked to a few lawmakers. But one or two or five won't do, how many of us have the determination to do what it takes??

dbcd
05-23-2008, 04:09 PM
Agree with original post.

Numbers USA people are angry right wing citizens.

Calls from legal aliens who can't vote won't move lawmakers one bit. Money and votes are the only 2 things that matter to politicians.

Pressure groups and lobbyists have far more reach and influence. IV as a group can use lobbyists and other influence to get a lot more done. Individual phone calls are a waste.

DBCD


I think this should be highlighted as it conveys a very important message:

"you may wish to google the nyt articles on how numbers usa operates to derail bills- they call! if our members would show the same enthusiasm and every single person would call when requested, we could have the same impact."

SunnySurya
05-23-2008, 04:15 PM
Paskal, Nixtor and other moderators, please run a quick check on dbcd.
I suspect he is same as pointlesswait.

Agree with original post.

Numbers USA people are angry right wing citizens.

Calls from legal aliens who can't vote won't move lawmakers one bit. Money and votes are the only 2 things that matter to politicians.

Pressure groups and lobbyists have far more reach and influence. IV as a group can use lobbyists and other influence to get a lot more done. Individual phone calls are a waste.

DBCD

mhathi
05-23-2008, 04:19 PM
Agree with original post.

Numbers USA people are angry right wing citizens.

Calls from legal aliens who can't vote won't move lawmakers one bit. Money and votes are the only 2 things that matter to politicians.

Pressure groups and lobbyists have far more reach and influence. IV as a group can use lobbyists and other influence to get a lot more done. Individual phone calls are a waste.

DBCD

So you think its just coincidence that two of the lawmakers from Congressional Hispanic Caucus have decided to cosponsor the three lofgren bills at the same time that 200 of us have called? Despite the fact that the CHC has gone on record saying they will not support legal immigration reform unless it also has amnesty provisions, and the three bills are solely for legal immigration ?

belmontboy
05-23-2008, 04:20 PM
When you call the law makers and tell them you support XYZ bill.. my question is what do you get out of it!

When the lawmaker realizes that he is getting 10000 calls from LEGAL aliens,
>who are not from his constituency,
>who can’t vote and
>who can’t contribute to his election campaign…
what is the motivation for the law maker to support the bill…

So to avoid sounding stupid and foolish and desperate when you call… a more logical approach would be to :
a) Generate a public petition form on IV website and have all the members’ login and sign the forms digitally…
b) Then have IV reps.. fax them and send them to lobby groups ….
c) Lawmakers will listen to one talking head…and not worry abt 1000 calls that borders on ..”saar …support the bill saar”..

How many of you have actually talked to the lawmakers? Its always the assistant!

But instead .. someone says we have a signed petition of 25000 members effected by immigration mess …. And it’s a hi tech workers lobby group ..every lawmaker will talk to you and not the assistant!

Conclusion: calling the lawmakers haphazardly is actually hurting IV cause..to a certain extent!

:cool:

if you don't call and speakup, how will the lawmakers know?

your suggestion sounds great. I am sure we can accomodate that too.

Its better to have attack on many fronts than stick with one.

We need to rise and speakup, thats all matters in the end.

pointlesswait
05-23-2008, 04:20 PM
looks like ur sunny side is up and its still raw!..;-) (2 posts)

my point is: citizens matter..not voteless aliens..
we cannot have the same game plan as numbersusa...

all i am saying is..maybe we need a newer and innovative approach to get our voices heard.. One speaking head ..not a herd!



Paskal, Nixtor and other moderators, please run a quick check on dbcd.
I suspect he is same as pointlesswait.

mpadapa
05-23-2008, 04:28 PM
Calling does help in many ways. People have to think positive rather than berating an effort.

Based on the original post, I infer that lawmakers won't care if they receive calls from LEGAL Aliens. If that is the logic then why do you think that lawmakers will work on "immigration" bills. After all the "immigration" bills only benefit folks who don't vote immediately. But one of lawmakers duty is to build the next generation America, and "immigration" bills benefit next generation America. People got to understand this fundamental difference and stop being pessimistic about IV efforts.

Directly talking to lawmakers office (through phone or in person) is far more effective than Web faxes and digital signatures.

I just cannot understand how high-skilled folks can be so short sighted, Look at the big picture.

Agree with original post.

Numbers USA people are angry right wing citizens.

Calls from legal aliens who can't vote won't move lawmakers one bit. Money and votes are the only 2 things that matter to politicians.

Pressure groups and lobbyists have far more reach and influence. IV as a group can use lobbyists and other influence to get a lot more done. Individual phone calls are a waste.

DBCD

pointlesswait
05-23-2008, 04:38 PM
> i am not berating anyone for that matter!

Leo07
05-23-2008, 04:41 PM
When you call the law makers and tell them you support XYZ bill.. my question is what do you get out of it!

When the lawmaker realizes that he is getting 10000 calls from LEGAL aliens,
>who are not from his constituency,
>who can’t vote and
>who can’t contribute to his election campaign…
what is the motivation for the law maker to support the bill…

So to avoid sounding stupid and foolish and desperate when you call… a more logical approach would be to :
a) Generate a public petition form on IV website and have all the members’ login and sign the forms digitally…
b) Then have IV reps.. fax them and send them to lobby groups ….
c) Lawmakers will listen to one talking head…and not worry abt 1000 calls that borders on ..”saar …support the bill saar”..

How many of you have actually talked to the lawmakers? Its always the assistant!

But instead .. someone says we have a signed petition of 25000 members effected by immigration mess …. And it’s a hi tech workers lobby group ..every lawmaker will talk to you and not the assistant!

Conclusion: calling the lawmakers haphazardly is actually hurting IV cause..to a certain extent!

:cool:

Do what you got to do and let others do what they think is right. I don't think there is one Success mantra here...because we are yet to be successful.

Honestly, I agree with you...but the underlying fact is some people get motivated for calling the senators and some for anonymous fax/email/flowers and some for rallies. There is definitely a subset who does all...but unless you are a Gandhi/MLK/JFK/Mandela....it's hard to drive people in one route.

Just a thought...

paskal
05-23-2008, 04:42 PM
looks like ur sunny side is up and its still raw!..;-) (2 posts)

my point is: citizens matter..not voteless aliens..
we cannot have the same game plan as numbersusa...

all i am saying is..maybe we need a newer and innovative approach to get our voices heard.. One speaking head ..not a herd!

we do the "one speak" too.
but herd speak counts.
this is not my "opinion". this is the direct information we have been passed along by lawmaker offices themselves. and you are wrong. whether you vote or not, if you call an office they do listen. if you visit it they listen more. try it and see, i speak from many personal experiences.

if "non voters" voices were so usless, we would not be even this far along by now. when a lot of people voice and opinion- IT DOES GET HEARD.

please do the needful.
we do adopt other strategies too. each one has its own utility. it's own goal and it's own time. right now we need the calls.

mpadapa
05-23-2008, 04:45 PM
Well Rep Lofgren is one of the two lawmakers in the House who have background in immig. issues (she was an immig. attorney).
If she doesn't have an obligation to solve immig. issue who else will have? It is her expertise and she want to solve the problem. Give her a chance, by supporting her effort on the 3 bills.

WHY is she backing the bill..what is her motivation? or did she just decide to do a gandhi on us all?

> i am not berating anyone for that matter!

When lawmakers support certain bills..its because of the interst groups that back them..not their inner calling!



"If that is the logic then why do you think that lawmakers will work on "immigration" bills. After all the "immigration" bills only benefit folks who don't vote immediately. "

paskal
05-23-2008, 04:45 PM
WHY is she backing the bill..what is her motivation? or did she just decide to do a gandhi on us all?

> i am not berating anyone for that matter!

When lawmakers support certain bills..its because of the interst groups that back them..not their inner calling!



"If that is the logic then why do you think that lawmakers will work on "immigration" bills. After all the "immigration" bills only benefit folks who don't vote immediately. "




this bill is a great example. iv is the only organization that ahs pushed for it. a bunch of "non voters". our constant pushing has helped bring lawmakers to our side and even corporations taht never cared about thsi before now have it on their agenda.

our voices count.
we use them in many ways. each way is important in this system.

paskal
05-23-2008, 04:48 PM
Do what you got to do and let others do what they think is right. I don't think there is one Success mantra here...because we are yet to be successful.

Honestly, I agree with you...but the underlying fact is some people get motivated for calling the senators and some for anonymous fax/email/flowers and some for rallies. There is definitely a subset who does all...but unless you are a Gandhi/MLK/JFK/Mandela....it's hard to drive people in one route.

Just a thought...


one of the reasons we have not succeeded is precisely because folks want to use their own "intellect" and not do what "IV" needs when it really needs you.
we do all of the above and more. if you like something more than the other that's perfectly fine and dandy. but if we can't collect a critical mass for an action, we lose effectiveness and shoot ourselves in the foot.
in a group this large you simply have to help the commom action and agenda for success. each opinion is important but at the end of the day the common action must be done by all, as far as possible.

msekhargc
05-23-2008, 05:00 PM
I like idea of doing both ( calls + signatures)

singhsa3
05-23-2008, 05:05 PM
It not just matter of Idea but it is the matter of attitude. It is one thing to generate thought provoking ideas and other thing to say things like
"So to avoid sounding stupid and foolish and desperate when you call".

By the way "pointless" is one of the those people who have been leaving comments like "chuteya" when giving red dots.
How do I know that ? a regular member may not be able to view this information but certainly moderators can.

So the intentions and very credibility of this person ("pointless") is in question!



I like idea of doing both ( calls + signatures)

485Mbe4001
05-23-2008, 05:17 PM
As someone who has talked to the congressmen and their staff, i can say that they do keep track of the number of people calling to support or speak against a bill. They can judge the public support or backlash easily. Talk radios inflamed anti immigrant groups who made thousands of calls. We on the other hand analyze the bills to death (in process provide talking points to the opposition), ask for minute by minute updates and start daydreaming on how we will celebrate when the bills pass. We make one call and expect immediate results.

You might be a 'voteless alien' but realize that you are supporting an economy of 'voters'. In your spare time calculate the amount of money you spend and the ancillary jobs you directly or indirectly support, you will be surprised.

Finally, the IV folks have some experience and they say things based on some background information that you might not be privy to. Also realize that many hardworking members of IV have their green cards and they are still working for the likes of you and I. I can understand that your post could be an immediate negative reaction of the amendments failure but the fact that you care shows that there is point to your pointless wait.





looks like ur sunny side is up and its still raw!..;-) (2 posts)

my point is: citizens matter..not voteless aliens..
we cannot have the same game plan as numbersusa...

all i am saying is..maybe we need a newer and innovative approach to get our voices heard.. One speaking head ..not a herd!

sunny1000
05-23-2008, 05:19 PM
please keep calling and don't get distracted. We have 2 CHC members on board. The more the calls, more CHC members we can bring on board for these bills. So, please call.

pointlesswait
05-23-2008, 05:25 PM
dude..i not not looking for a character certificate from anyone here!

when someone can leave me a foul message why shouln't I..!

to avoid abuse of the system..let the dot givers identity be known to all!

i just raised the question...i am not doubting the intention of IV!

true...its the attitude...why is eveyonne taking it personally! (singhsa3)


It not just matter of Idea but it is the matter of attitude. It is one thing to generate thought provoking ideas and other thing to say things like
"So to avoid sounding stupid and foolish and desperate when you call".

By the way "pointless" is one of the those people who have been leaving comments like "chuteya" when giving red dots.
How do I know that ? a regular member may not be able to view this information but certainly moderators can.

So the intentions and very credibility of this person ("pointless") is in question!

nixstor
05-23-2008, 05:37 PM
WHY is she backing the bill..what is her motivation? or did she just decide to do a gandhi on us all?

> i am not berating anyone for that matter!

When lawmakers support certain bills..its because of the interst groups that back them..not their inner calling!



"If that is the logic then why do you think that lawmakers will work on "immigration" bills. After all the "immigration" bills only benefit folks who don't vote immediately. "

HR 5882 and HR5921 not only help alleviate ( I am not saying eliminate) backlogs in EB, but also help reduce (Not eliminate) FB backlogs by doing a recapture and carrying over the wasted visa numbers. Do I need to say more on to whom FB matters the most? Don't you think the members we called have an interest in supporting these bills? If you think that only lobbying using those high tech firms helps us get out of this, you must be dreaming.

nixstor
05-23-2008, 05:42 PM
dude..i not not looking for a character certificate from anyone here!

when someone can leave me a foul message why shouln't I..!

to avoid abuse of the system..let the dot givers identity be known to all!

i just raised the question...i am not doubting the intention of IV!

true...its the attitude...why is eveyonne taking it personally! (singhsa3)

I believe it was partly because you started rubbing it the wrong way

I don't know what your intention was in putting "Saar, please support bill Saar". It sounded as if like you were looking down on the guys who were calling and who requested them to call.

You probably wanted to underscore that what we are doing is not going to help and wanted to recommend some thing else, but your expression did not help.

That said, I don't leave red dots to any one.

My 2 cents.

hebbar77
05-23-2008, 05:42 PM
if you all use little more IQ, you will realize that only with donation/money you will make a difference.
We all are here to make someone rich(employers, local businesses). So if you can make polititians rich, they will do something for you!
So stop calling... start donating to IV...

Let me know if my thought is wrong!

nixstor
05-23-2008, 05:52 PM
if you all use little more IQ, you will realize that only with donation/money you will make a difference.
We all are here to make someone rich(employers, local businesses). So if you can make polititians rich, they will do something for you!
So stop calling... start donating to IV...

Let me know if my thought is wrong!

Money is important and has its place in the process. Grass roots effort is also important. What would you tell if some one asks which eye is more important to you? left or right? If this Q was a stretch, ignore it. I just used it to tell that $$ and grass roots efforts are important

Money does not get every thing done. Corp America is doing everything they can to get H1B numbers increased. Do you think they are being stingy with the money they need to spend? They have stronger opposing grass roots groups like Numbers USA, FAIR etc. Our issue is a lot less volatile compared to the H1B increase issue. How ever our issue is unknown to many lawmakers until recently. I am positive that some members came to know about the bills when we called them or have been approached by our state chapters.

sunny1000
05-23-2008, 06:25 PM
if you all use little more IQ, you will realize that only with donation/money you will make a difference.
We all are here to make someone rich(employers, local businesses). So if you can make polititians rich, they will do something for you!
So stop calling... start donating to IV...

Let me know if my thought is wrong!

Please don't underestimate the power of these calls...The opposition does it every time to us and derail our efforts (just like they did it again to the Senate appropriation bill amendment) by just calling in large volumes. The orgs like numbersusa just call upon their members to call the lawmakers to oppose and their members plainly follow the instructions. Whereas 29000 strong org like ours debate it to death, let the moment pass by and then, have the audacity to complain that it did not work...

You can use that same IQ that you mentioned to figure it out yourself.

santb1975
05-23-2008, 06:27 PM
When I called Lucille Raybal Allard's office last week, a rep from the office had an extensive conversation with me about both the bills and they have not heard about them before. He recognized me when I called him back to check if they made a decision.

Alright Folks, Let us not get distracted. We have lots of work to do.

Money is important and has its place in the process. Grass roots effort is also important. What would you tell if some one asks which eye is more important to you? left or right? If this Q was a stretch, ignore it. I just used it to tell that $$ and grass roots efforts are important

Money does not get every thing done. Corp America is doing everything they can to get H1B numbers increased. Do you think they are being stingy with the money they need to spend? They have stronger opposing grass roots groups like Numbers USA, FAIR etc. Our issue is a lot less volatile compared to the H1B increase issue. How ever our issue is unknown to many lawmakers until recently. I am positive that some members came to know about the bills when we called them or have been approached by our state chapters.

nixstor
05-23-2008, 08:32 PM
When I called Lucille Raybal Allard's office last week, a rep from the office had an extensive conversation with me about both the bills and they have not heard about them before. He recognized me when I called him back to check if they made a decision.

Alright Folks, Let us not get distracted. We have lots of work to do.

Santb,

Right on. Thanks for confirming my hunch

Folks,

Watch out for stuff coming out after Memorial day. We will have more similar work to do.

sayantan76
05-23-2008, 10:42 PM
When I called Lucille Raybal Allard's office last week, a rep from the office had an extensive conversation with me about both the bills and they have not heard about them before. He recognized me when I called him back to check if they made a decision.

Alright Folks, Let us not get distracted. We have lots of work to do.
what was the decision though? not trying to question your calling but just curious on effectiveness.....

the fact that the person remembered you does not mean anything.....say, i run a hardware shop and have not sold a mousetrap in months - suddenly 3 people come in asking for a mousetrap - despite the fact that i probably get hundreds of customers - chances are i would remember those 3

sayantan76
05-23-2008, 11:18 PM
one of the reasons we have not succeeded is precisely because folks want to use their own "intellect" and not do what "IV" needs when it really needs you.
we do all of the above and more. if you like something more than the other that's perfectly fine and dandy. but if we can't collect a critical mass for an action, we lose effectiveness and shoot ourselves in the foot.
in a group this large you simply have to help the commom action and agenda for success. each opinion is important but at the end of the day the common action must be done by all, as far as possible.
paskal - i actually agree with your basic premise.....once the larger body agrees on a basic vision and strategic plan - the tactical manuevers to achieve the vision in line with strategy should be left to leaders.......

but this principle generally works in two scenarios - either when the leader (or lead group) is appointed by a higher authority (like employees following the lead of a CEO appointed by board of directors which in turn has been "elected" by shareholders) or when the leader has been directly or indirectly elected by the constituents.......

Let me give an example.......an entrepreneur starts a company with a great idea.....grows it and nurtures it with great love and passion......dedicates his whole life to the idea and the venture.......then the entrepreneur needs a larger canvas and more money to grow the vision further.......he takes the company public or gets private equity funding or raises debt........now the new owners/ stakeholders decide they need to change the management and decide to elect a person of their own choice........suddenly a rank outsider replaces the entrepreneur as CEO........the new CEO now has the legitimacy and owners' backing to dictate how the company should function.....

I welcome red dots but take a moment to absorb what I am saying and whether the principle is wrong......

santb1975
05-23-2008, 11:19 PM
congresswoman Lucille Roybal-Allard from the list as she is now the co sponsor of all three bills


what was the decision though?

santb1975
05-23-2008, 11:27 PM
and the point you are trying to bring up is???

paskal - i actually agree with your basic premise.....once the larger body agrees on a basic vision and strategic plan - the tactical manuevers to achieve the vision in line with strategy should be left to leaders.......

but this principle generally works in two scenarios - either when the leader (or lead group) is appointed by a higher authority (like employees following the lead of a CEO appointed by board of directors which in turn has been "elected" by shareholders) or when the leader has been directly or indirectly elected by the constituents.......

Let me give an example.......an entrepreneur starts a company with a great idea.....grows it and nurtures it with great love and passion......dedicates his whole life to the idea and the venture.......then the entrepreneur needs a larger canvas and more money to grow the vision further.......he takes the company public or gets private equity funding or raises debt........now the new owners/ stakeholders decide they need to change the management and decide to elect a person of their own choice........suddenly a rank outsider replaces the entrepreneur as CEO........the new CEO now has the legitimacy and owners' backing to dictate how the company should function.....

I welcome red dots but take a moment to absorb what I am saying and whether the principle is wrong......

ujjwal_p
05-24-2008, 12:31 AM
and the point you are trying to bring up is???

i think he may want to be the ceo of iv.

here are my 2 cents..

its nice to talk endlessly about what went wrong and bitch about it till the morning. one thing we all need to realise is this : we are going to have failures. period. just like we have had failures in the past. this is not going to be easy where you win every single legislation. 10% hit rate is success enough given the opposition and difficulties we face. so now, given that our batting average is going to be low, the question is this : everytime we have a failure, if people are going to sit on their butt, smoking their pipe dreams and doing monday morning quarterbacking about what part was wrong, then shouldn't they also volunteer to their local IV section to make it better? lets face it, if you really think something can be done better, then volunteer to the local IV branch and do it. everybody can benefit. but if all you are going to be doing is sitting here and posting negative messages, then you hurt everybody, starting with you. the opposition is much better organized, has more money and has great influences on the political inside. if you are not providing any constructive or organizational help, causing people to be distracted and causing IV core to lose their focus, and if you are not willing to volunteer to make it better, then in my opinion its best to step aside, be quiet and let the people in charge do it. again, if you are not helping, then you hurt everybody starting with you.

in this case, like paskal mentioned, if you think the phone calls were not important, then you haven't seen the victory message from numbersusa where they talked about the deluge of phone calls that were made by their supporters and how crucial it was in throwing out the visa recapture amendment. if anything, perhaps we could have gotten better organized with the calls. But I suspect things also moved much faster than anyone anticipated, including IV core.

lets focus our energies and support IV core and ourselves.

peace

Administrator2
05-24-2008, 12:40 AM
All Gurus,

Although we all live in the digital age, digital signatures of 20,000 people are less effective than 500 calls, and 500 calls is less effective then 50 members meeting their lawmakers in DC. Like it or not, that is how Washington works. We have to craft our methodology and adept to the ways that work in DC, and not the ways that sounds cool or most convenient. No one cares about how someone voted on IV's website or any other website, but they care when someone calls them and they keep a tally of the number of calls. For example, say if 99% of all the people voting (digitally signing) on Lou Dobbs show say that all H-1s should be sent home, do you think lawmakers care about that? Even if people provide names, and address, even then it is less effectively than 5% the number of people calling. Being an IT Analyst, one could fall into the trap of reasoning, but as we know, law is not based on logical and the process in which laws are made is also not logical. If it was based on logic and reason, we would not need Federal Affairs folks. Also, if we tell members to provide digital signatures, out of 20000 members, 200 people will give real names and data, the remaining people, the data would look something like First Name - Last Name as 'ABC' – 'DEF'. But members are more likely to feel comfortable in providing data to the lawmakers offcies. So you see, there are practical problems and considerations, although for the community that employs hi-technology for most part of their job, 'digital signature' may “sound” effective, but actually it is not.

Just another example, we have been advised by key decision makers, counsels, advisors and our partners for not sending web-fax. Thus we are not employing that method at this time. We pay experts for this advise, guys who know what works and what doesn't, and these guys have more than decades of experience.

We also constantly communicate with other groups and key folks at large employers some of whom we all know. We have come a long way in making these relationships to effectively run this campaign. A lot of times we are not able to disclose/explain the reason for a specific method on WWW, but before announcing and requesting members to spend their energies, we do good amount of debates and discussions with our counsel and paid strategist, which is part of the reason we pay them. In many cases we seek advice/ideas/suggestions from the top executives of the employers of some of IV members. So there is no point in this discussion. Please trust the strategy and methodology. We are high-skilled and critical ideas to conduct an effective campaign is welcome, however, we have a choice to just to be critical and do our own thing, or function as an cohesive organization acting on advise from our counsel.

BTW, just to clarify. There was no failure. We were told 2 weeks back how it will turn out, and it did exactly the way we were told. Murray-Gregg amendment could not have survived digital signatures of 20 million people. And we were told so by our counsel. But we were advised to continue to make those phone calls because these calls are counted and will have its effect for the next time. Trust us, our strategist is “The Best” one could hire in DC. Each such effort is an opportunity to gather more support to convince few more lawmaker. It is one step at a time. It is not an easy process, but the one that works. There are no shot cuts to the process of changing the law in the politically charged environment about immigration subject.

sayantan76
05-24-2008, 01:02 AM
i think he may want to be the ceo of iv.

here are my 2 cents..

its nice to talk endlessly about what went wrong and bitch about it till the morning. one thing we all need to realise is this : we are going to have failures. period. just like we have had failures in the past. this is not going to be easy where you win every single legislation. 10% hit rate is success enough given the opposition and difficulties we face. so now, given that our batting average is going to be low, the question is this : everytime we have a failure, if people are going to sit on their butt, smoking their pipe dreams and doing monday morning quarterbacking about what part was wrong, then shouldn't they also volunteer to their local IV section to make it better? lets face it, if you really think something can be done better, then volunteer to the local IV branch and do it. everybody can benefit. but if all you are going to be doing is sitting here and posting negative messages, then you hurt everybody, starting with you. the opposition is much better organized, has more money and has great influences on the political inside. if you are not providing any constructive or organizational help, causing people to be distracted and causing IV core to lose their focus, and if you are not willing to volunteer to make it better, then in my opinion its best to step aside, be quiet and let the people in charge do it. again, if you are not helping, then you hurt everybody starting with you.

in this case, like paskal mentioned, if you think the phone calls were not important, then you haven't seen the victory message from numbersusa where they talked about the deluge of phone calls that were made by their supporters and how crucial it was in throwing out the visa recapture amendment. if anything, perhaps we could have gotten better organized with the calls. But I suspect things also moved much faster than anyone anticipated, including IV core.

lets focus our energies and support IV core and ourselves.

peace
just presenting a possible reason why what paskal proposed in his post does not work well in IV.......its not a question of whether phone calls are important or not....its a question of making a significant number of forum stakeholders (and not 1-2%) get to act on any initiative......fund raising/ calling efforts etc....

i genuinely believe that the core members go above and beyond whats expected to do what they are doing for IV - its truly remarkable...they all have busy lives and it takes great conviction and dedication to take the time out and do this...but why are the people still not responding despite the obvious pitfalls of not acting on GC related initiatives.......

maybe its lethargy, inaction, indifference etc.......but we should be open to considering that just maybe, a vast and silent majority of IVians do not feel a sense of representation in the organization and hence do not react as enthusiastically as they should........legitimacy among the constituents often comes with representation

why did most kingdoms around the world perish and give way to democracies......bcos the kings taxed the public based on their whims and fancies......elected govts may do the same but people still pay up and if they dont agree - they know they have a choice at the next elections.......

and no, i dont deserve to be the CEO - neither do i have a performance track record nor credibility here......should not stop me from voicing a contrarion view though

dbcd
05-24-2008, 02:35 AM
SunnySurya,

BTW, I don't know who this pointlesswait is.

Anyway, I guess people in this forum still have the right to be disappointed by how lawmakers behave. Listen, I have hope that some form of legal imm legislation will pass some day, may be within a year, but I do believe it would take some serious lobbying efforts by powerful people to achieve that. That just seems to be the reality. You can try to ignore reality if you want.

DBCD

Paskal, Nixtor and other moderators, please run a quick check on dbcd.
I suspect he is same as pointlesswait.

dbcd
05-24-2008, 02:44 AM
I'm sure there are some intelligent and caring lawmakers somewhere who listen to legal immigrants' plight. They don't seem to be in enough or meaningful numbers. Most are interested in either keeping their seats or serving a subsection of their community.

Again, I believe they are moved mostly by lobbyists and other power groups. I don't yet fully understand how much power IV can wield, but IV could be one such group.

Lawmakers care about high-skilled immigrants only because people like B. Gates, Compete America and such keep lobbying any and all the time.

BTW, I'm not at all short-sighted about this. I'm just more realistic about how things happen in Washington. Need proof: For example, look at the staffers on McCain's campaign. Most are lobbyists. Understanding how democracy works in America and commenting about it is what the real big picture is.

DBCD

Calling does help in many ways. People have to think positive rather than berating an effort.

Based on the original post, I infer that lawmakers won't care if they receive calls from LEGAL Aliens. If that is the logic then why do you think that lawmakers will work on "immigration" bills. After all the "immigration" bills only benefit folks who don't vote immediately. But one of lawmakers duty is to build the next generation America, and "immigration" bills benefit next generation America. People got to understand this fundamental difference and stop being pessimistic about IV efforts.

Directly talking to lawmakers office (through phone or in person) is far more effective than Web faxes and digital signatures.

I just cannot understand how high-skilled folks can be so short sighted, Look at the big picture.

dbcd
05-24-2008, 02:51 AM
I agree with you. That is how the system works...

DBCD

if you all use little more IQ, you will realize that only with donation/money you will make a difference.
We all are here to make someone rich(employers, local businesses). So if you can make polititians rich, they will do something for you!
So stop calling... start donating to IV...

Let me know if my thought is wrong!

ujjwal_p
05-24-2008, 04:31 AM
just presenting a possible reason why what paskal proposed in his post does not work well in IV.......its not a question of whether phone calls are important or not....its a question of making a significant number of forum stakeholders (and not 1-2%) get to act on any initiative......fund raising/ calling efforts etc....

i genuinely believe that the core members go above and beyond whats expected to do what they are doing for IV - its truly remarkable...they all have busy lives and it takes great conviction and dedication to take the time out and do this...but why are the people still not responding despite the obvious pitfalls of not acting on GC related initiatives.......

maybe its lethargy, inaction, indifference etc.......but we should be open to considering that just maybe, a vast and silent majority of IVians do not feel a sense of representation in the organization and hence do not react as enthusiastically as they should........legitimacy among the constituents often comes with representation

why did most kingdoms around the world perish and give way to democracies......bcos the kings taxed the public based on their whims and fancies......elected govts may do the same but people still pay up and if they dont agree - they know they have a choice at the next elections.......

and no, i dont deserve to be the CEO - neither do i have a performance track record nor credibility here......should not stop me from voicing a contrarion view though

ill be the first to support you on that. nobody should stop anybody from expressing their point of view. i provided mine too. its just that, an opinion.

my disagreement is basically with the thread's premise. its not an "absurdity" to call lawmakers. in fact, its probably more absurd to think that this is absurd. my point in a nutshell was for us to be constructive.

ill just conclude with the exact words from the numbersusa spokesperson to its members following the recent events and this is on the top of the message, emphasis mine :

Your Phone Calls Worked!

So, there you go, need i say more? Good for them. They worked hard, were focussed on the task, made more calls and things went their way. Of course, we did have the Ag jobs bill which wasn't pretty to be hanging out with. Anyways, if you want, you can read the entire statement by using your favorite search engine.

Eternal_Hope
05-24-2008, 11:56 AM
Why can't we simultaneously have webfaxes + letters + phone calls + sit-ins + flower mailing + writing to newspapers etc. etc.?

The reason is that whatever the "action item" - it's more or less the same 500people who come forward.

Having said that - there is no stopping members to lead and motivate other members to join in an aciton item that they can "sell" to those other members.

-------------------------------

belmontboy
05-24-2008, 02:18 PM
just presenting a possible reason why what paskal proposed in his post does not work well in IV.......its not a question of whether phone calls are important or not....its a question of making a significant number of forum stakeholders (and not 1-2%) get to act on any initiative......fund raising/ calling efforts etc....

i genuinely believe that the core members go above and beyond whats expected to do what they are doing for IV - its truly remarkable...they all have busy lives and it takes great conviction and dedication to take the time out and do this...but why are the people still not responding despite the obvious pitfalls of not acting on GC related initiatives.......

maybe its lethargy, inaction, indifference etc.......but we should be open to considering that just maybe, a vast and silent majority of IVians do not feel a sense of representation in the organization and hence do not react as enthusiastically as they should........legitimacy among the constituents often comes with representation

why did most kingdoms around the world perish and give way to democracies......bcos the kings taxed the public based on their whims and fancies......elected govts may do the same but people still pay up and if they dont agree - they know they have a choice at the next elections.......

and no, i dont deserve to be the CEO - neither do i have a performance track record nor credibility here......should not stop me from voicing a contrarion view though

Thanks sayantan76! we already know that there is less participation from our members.

Nobody here exactly knows why the participation rate is less. Some of reasons could be:

i have my EAD, thats more than enough for me
i am in my I-140 or PERM stage, why should i bother now?
i don't think GC process is a big problem, i am sure i will get one day
i don't care. I will sit and watch others do this for me


I will not blame the core members. I understand their Vision and it aligns with mine. How do you enforce a vision in IV community when the participation is less?
How can any action survive with 100-200 members participation? look at numbersusa and learn from their strengths.

Having said that, i have a few suggestions though. Lets talk to our friends and relativies, understand their concerns/issues and communicate IV's vision to them in a better way and get them to participate.
Lets set some intermediate goals to track our progress.

Lets go IV

pappu
05-24-2008, 03:36 PM
This is what the callings have done!
For HR 5882, From 2 to...

COSPONSORS(13), ALPHABETICAL
Rep Abercrombie, Neil [HI-1] - 5/13/2008 Rep Capuano, Michael E. [MA-8] - 5/13/2008
Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31] - 5/13/2008 Rep Cuellar, Henry [TX-28] - 5/15/2008
Rep Davis, Tom [VA-11] - 4/24/2008 Rep Gilchrest, Wayne T. [MD-1] - 5/13/2008
Rep Honda, Michael M. [CA-15] - 5/13/2008 Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila [TX-18] - 5/13/2008
Rep Nadler, Jerrold [NY-8] - 5/22/2008 Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille [CA-34] - 5/22/2008
Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. [WI-5] - 4/23/2008 Rep Shadegg, John B. [AZ-3] - 5/13/2008
Rep Speier, Jackie [CA-12] - 5/22/2008

Yes that is correct
Thanks to everyone that has been calling.
It was all because of IV member's effort :
- calling offices that was done in the last couple of weeks,
- state chapter members formed groups and visited DC,
- state chapter members went to local lawmaker offices. We had a national conference call for all state chapter members before we started this campaign.
- IV core lobbied hard over the past several months when these bills were in the works and are continuing to lobby for these bills.

calling, faxing, meeting, writing letters ... everything works.

Meeting works best.
It is all a question of how much you are willing to invest in this effort.

Digital signatures are just digital signatures. Anonymous letters are good for trash cans. Writing and calling lawmaker office is very helpful. In person meetings with staff are more valuable. In person meeting with the lawmaker himself is invaluable. Getting your employer to contact your local lawmaker office and also write about this is invaluable. Forming a group of people/actively participating as a state chapter and then going to a lawmaker office to lobby is invaluable.

So ultimately it all depends on how badly you want your own greencard and how much you value this effort. If the effort a person wants to do is only an online petition with digital signatures, then such effort is not even worth wasting time on. It will only make anti immigrants happy.

And no action is done haphazardly. We try to organize the effort. We just dont post our plans fully on the public forums. State chapters are more organized than forums and state chapters and their leaders have access to more information. If anyone wants to help us organize us better, please join us and help us. State chapter is just a start. we need everyone's expertise in organizing this effort better than what it is.

obviously
05-24-2008, 04:14 PM
Aha! Got your attention, didnt it? Shut the Frog Up, its croaking all night...

Folks, the admins have top quality counsel that is out there to help us help them effect changes that we all desire. This is NOT the time or place for armchair experts and critics to question or second-guess strategies and tactics.

Enough is enough. Shut the frog up if its croaking too loudly in your brain. Dont use your 'grey cells' to bring your 'artificial intelligence' to this conversation. Enough is enough. Just do what the experts ask us to do.

Reason 'high skilled' immigrants are struggling to get things passed, we think too much. Exactly. Keep things simple. Follow the recipes. You will get the results.

So, enough is enough. Stop second guessing or bringing your debating skills and analysis skills to an area where you have no expertise or context.

Thanks for listening. Now, lets BECOME SIMPLE FOLLOWERS for a change. Change will happen.

Wanna debate? Speak to your b'room mirror and entertain yourself. Dont bring it here and cause confusion.

Catch my drift?
________
Flirty_Kandy (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Flirty_Kandy)

rockstart
05-24-2008, 09:49 PM
The point is what did we lose by calling. It took us a call which any way is free. Took 2-3 minutes of our time which other wise we were not planning to use in any other better activity. So even if the campaign fails ( I pray it does not) still we havent lost finacially or in any way. Atleast it brought so many people together to do something constructive. Made people understand how a bill works in senate.

To your other point that senetors do not care about non voters then then the only other way is lobbying and paying for campaign funds. Can we do that the answer is plain NO. Most people on H1B are working for blod sucking consultants who pa them far less than what they deserve. How much can they contribute financially if they have dependent wife an kid here and parents in home country. Add to this the job insecurity in current market and there is no guarranty that paying one time will bring any results. Least this way every one contributes.