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pappu
01-24-2008, 11:27 AM
ImmigrationVoice is monitoring this issue and here is an update:

The bill you wish to review is Senate bill 962. You may find the bill online at the following Web site: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(d5fjvf45undl2n550t1aoufm))/mileg.aspx?page=home
They think that this will address the problem. See sec. 310F of the proposed bill. The intent is to expire the driver’s license in conjunction with a study or work visa but other cases are also spelled out in this section.

The problem has come about because the state attorney general's interpretation of the existing law is that only gc holders and citizens may be issued a license. It is unclear if the attorney general has used the new rule to force passage of the bill above to correct it, or if attorney general held back until the bill was ready for voting. The vote is planned for next week.

However, there are some holes that will affect legal immigrants like us,
For example:

* Extension of status is not allowed for, so if employer files I129 on time, but not 6 months in advance - no drivers license. (AOS is allowed for)
* renew every year in person
* License marked as temporary -- so some institutions will not accept (e.g. some banks).
* end dates on EAD and AP might not be used to set end date of DL, this is bad if we get USCIS to issue multi year EAD.

Action Item:

Having the contact details of anyone living in MI that needs to renew their DL this week or next would be helpful, and an email summary of their situation, send email to mark at immigrationvoice.org. Mark Bartosik, (Id: martosik) IV spokesperson and Vivek (Id: walking_dude) are leading this effort. If you have any questions and want to help, please contact them. Mark Bartosik from NY chapter is in touch with the MI state Senator office, exploring amendment in the bill to help everyone in the community.

Let us also not look at this issue as an isolated issue. Today it has happened in MI, tomorrow it can also happen in other states. Immigration Voice will help its members and try to advocate on issues that affects its members. It is important that we continue to make our letter campaign to the President a success.

This is a call to all MI members, to come forward and help out in this effort and the letter campaign.

walking_dude
01-24-2008, 09:37 PM
Link to Bill 926 main page - http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2007-SB-0962

Bill full text - http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2007-2008/billintroduced/Senate/htm/2007-SIB-0962.htm (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2007-SB-0962)

[ Read Section 301F ]

We will post a detailed analysis soon.

gckp
01-24-2008, 09:58 PM
State of FL already implemented these things, where you have to renew your license every year, they just issue license for 1 year only even if you have 3yr I129. Starting this year I got my license marked as a temporary, which really looks ugly.

santb1975
01-25-2008, 12:42 AM
I am in CA but I will do what I can to support this

zephyrr
01-25-2008, 02:49 AM
thanks walking_dude and martosik for taking this up.

fyi - you can renew your driver's license in tx for 7 yrs online. i did that now even though mine is expiring end of the year.

when
01-25-2008, 10:30 AM
Do we know when will they vote one it:confused:

anilsal
01-25-2008, 10:45 AM
for taking up this important issue on behalf of legal skilled applicants/immigrants-in-the-works.

walking_dude
01-25-2008, 11:12 AM
when,

It will be quite sometime before it goes for vote in the Michigan state senate and then MI house of representatives. It will then have to be signed into state law by Gov. Granholm.

Do we know when will they vote one it:confused:

aquarianf
01-25-2008, 01:44 PM
State of FL already implemented these things, where you have to renew your license every year, they just issue license for 1 year only even if you have 3yr I129. Starting this year I got my license marked as a temporary, which really looks ugly.

This is already implemented in NJ. I have to renew it evry year in person (because of 1 yr ext to h1) and it is marked as temporary but it is not big deal. Renewal takes 15-20 minutes and few of my friends bought houses and temporary word in lic. didn't have any issue.

mbartosik
01-25-2008, 03:24 PM
The state senate transportation committee will be considering starting Thursday. There is a lot of work going on by IV here. I don't want to say too much at the moment. It will then take them some days to redraft and reconsider and then vote. Currently we don't know much about the forces involved, so we would not want to predict an outcome.

As for the current situation, unfortunately I expect it to last for some weeks unless an immovable force is met (i.e. court order).

ANYONE reading this thread PLEASE PLEASE make sure that you have sent the President a letter as part of our admin fix campaign.

akgind
01-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Does the bill cover people on F1 and H1 status whose visa stamp has expired? By strict interpretation, it appears not.

"25 The applicant has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status for entry into the United States."

Since the F1 and H1 status in not valid for "entry", our most Honorable AG of MI can easily intrepret it to deny DL to peple with expired visa stamp but valid status. I am not an attorney, but the following language might cover both:

"25 The applicant has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa for entry into the United States or valid, enexpired nonimmigrant status for stay in the United States."

abhijitp
01-25-2008, 06:17 PM
THIS is the only organization-- by people, of people, for people!
Kudos to you guys! Let us know if we in CA can help!

sunny1000
01-25-2008, 06:30 PM
Does the bill cover people on F1 and H1 status whose visa stamp has expired? By strict interpretation, it appears not.

"25 The applicant has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status for entry into the United States."

Since the F1 and H1 status in not valid for "entry", our most Honorable AG of MI can easily intrepret it to deny DL to peple with expired visa stamp but valid status. I am not an attorney, but the following language might cover both:

"25 The applicant has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa for entry into the United States or valid, enexpired nonimmigrant status for stay in the United States."

Your amendment will also indirectly include those who hold EAD :D

lazycis
01-25-2008, 07:35 PM
http://bibdaily.com/pdfs/AILA%20Mich%20DL%201-25-08.pdf

mbartosik
01-26-2008, 02:18 AM
I need a fact check:

"Some states have enacted strict license requirement that have started to cause hardship to legally present aliens. I believe that Tennessee has since changed its requirements due to the hardship caused."

respond to mark at immigrationvoice.com

chanduv23
01-26-2008, 08:26 AM
respond to mark at immigrationvoice.com

a correction

mark AT immigrationvoice DOT org

zCool
01-26-2008, 01:55 PM
I made a some noise, called a few folks around the state offices.
I think in one case the lady at the counter said "I am just following orders" to these 2 south korean students, I got upset hearing that from the back of the line and said "this is exact same thing Germans were saying during the WWII when they were burning jews in the gas ovens!, You know law is unjust and is going to ruin lives of innocent folks who are in the crossfire between overzealous politician and folks who don't care anyways"

Long story short, something clicked.. manager got involved, she called lansing, and thinking into what can be done via exceptions process, it might blow-back and cause me more issues so I don't want anyone asking for details or such, I am not divulging anything more here,
But I think a lot of folks from DMV also realize this is unjust and ill-thought-of law and they want something done themselves..
Secondly, I am surprised at the deafening silence by university lords, desi employers, democratic machine.. when did Democracy start to mean majority mob rule? and why aren't there more desi guys who have license but still are PO'ed at being targets of vendetta by AG?
When are folks going to wake up? after they start asking all brown faces to wear yellow ribbon on the left hand so that employers can supposedly identify among all the browns who is "legal"??

hpandey
01-26-2008, 02:01 PM
Well done zCool !! We must fight against this discrimination and unjust behaviour . I think the time have come because these type of laws are getting more and more common.

walking_dude
01-26-2008, 05:23 PM
zCool answers to your questions are available in your post itself, the part that I have marked in bold. This is why no one volunteers to take up the issue unless his/her own DL is rejected.

Like you said since the impacted folks (immigrants) themselves are keeping silent , not much should be expected of others.

Want to see the change write the letters o your Congressmen, State Lawmakers, Governor, SOS, AG etc. to fix the problem. Join IVs efforts to recapture visa through Admin fixes. We will not prevail if we remain happy with just glating about the problem and showing our frustrations over a forum. We need to be active in real world too.

.....it might blow-back and cause me more issues so I don't want anyone asking for details or such, I am not divulging anything more here,
..........
Secondly, I am surprised at the deafening silence by university lords, desi employers, democratic machine.. when did Democracy start to mean majority mob rule? and why aren't there more desi guys who have license but still are PO'ed at being targets of vendetta by AG?
When are folks going to wake up? after they start asking all brown faces to wear yellow ribbon on the left hand so that employers can supposedly identify among all the browns who is "legal"??

zCool
01-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Dude,
I didn't come looking for answers here.. In this case, I am THE ONLY person who has done something by contacting highest offices in Lansing.. and I actually talked to folks who are making decisions.. not just letter that goes in the trash-bin

As far as my inability to divulge info goes.. we do that all the time on IV..
This is a public forum not every piece on info can be posted, and more importantly it's in progress so I can't say anyting definitively till I get some response back..
Ease up on the preaching ..
You sound like fanatic.. don't turn everything into recruiting session..
some of us like to work without creating a movement out of each small issue..
there are a lot of fronts and try as you like.. trying to centralize control of every little thing isn't gonna get you anywhere..
in fact.. I am not even sure why IV should be wasting energy trying to fight smaller injustices in states.. BIG issue is retrogression and GC rules.. that's the root cause.. why fight symptoms? that way movements tend to get involved in traps and loose focus..

paskal
01-27-2008, 04:08 PM
Dude,
I didn't come looking for answers here.. In this case, I am THE ONLY person who has done something by contacting highest offices in Lansing.. and I actually talked to folks who are making decisions.. not just letter that goes in the trash-bin

As far as my inability to divulge info goes.. we do that all the time on IV..
This is a public forum not every piece on info can be posted, and more importantly it's in progress so I can't say anyting definitively till I get some response back..
Ease up on the preaching ..
You sound like fanatic.. don't turn everything into recruiting session..
some of us like to work without creating a movement out of each small issue..
there are a lot of fronts and try as you like.. trying to centralize control of every little thing isn't gonna get you anywhere..
in fact.. I am not even sure why IV should be wasting energy trying to fight smaller injustices in states.. BIG issue is retrogression and GC rules.. that's the root cause.. why fight symptoms? that way movements tend to get involved in traps and loose focus..



you are not the ONLY one, chill a little man. others do things without grandstanding too. if local iv guys work on issues that trouble people waiting for GC's it does not harm the overall issue. there has been contact with MI lawmakers and hopefully something will be done to address issues. instead of arguing here, if you want to help make this a larger effort (yours and other's) pm walking dude and discuss mutually beneficial efforts.

btw this is hardly a small issue...on the one hand you are shocked at 'silence" on the other hand you call it a small issue????
should we suffer in silence while we wait for the legislative environment to change and the wheels to start moving? should people be forced out of jobs while we wait? obviously you don't think so, so then why criticize other's efforts? also for the record- hand written, snail mailed letters are ALWAYS read in lawmaker's offices- from the (many) horse's mouth.
these efforts are complimentary and let's take advantage of that.

zCool
01-28-2008, 01:44 PM
One more update,
Local DMV sent applications from Oakland county to Lansing and surprise surprise.. Lansing promptly rejected them and denied applying Exceptions process.

niklshah
01-28-2008, 02:03 PM
Hi zcool,

was it for new license applicaton or renewal?

zCool
01-28-2008, 02:21 PM
Someone from other state trying to get Michigan license.
They treat those as new ones

gc_eb2_waiter
01-28-2008, 02:28 PM
My wife received her Driver's Licence last month with big 'TEMPORARY' words on it. They gave it based on H4 validation dates.

State of FL already implemented these things, where you have to renew your license every year, they just issue license for 1 year only even if you have 3yr I129. Starting this year I got my license marked as a temporary, which really looks ugly.

walking_dude
01-28-2008, 08:19 PM
SEC. 310F. (1) BEFORE ISSUING AN OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR A

16 CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE TO AN APPLICANT, THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL

17 REQUIRE AND THE APPLICANT SHALL PRODUCE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE AS

18 DETERMINED BY THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHOWING THAT 1 OR MORE OF

19 THE FOLLOWING APPLY TO THE APPLICANT:

20 (A) THE APPLICANT IS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES.

21 (B) THE APPLICANT IS AN ALIEN LAWFULLY ADMITTED FOR

22 PERMANENT OR TEMPORARY RESIDENCE IN THE UNITED STATES.

23 (C) THE APPLICANT HAS CONDITIONAL PERMANENT RESIDENCE STATUS

24 IN THE UNITED STATES.

25 (D) THE APPLICANT HAS A VALID, UNEXPIRED NONIMMIGRANT VISA

26 OR NONIMMIGRANT VISA STATUS FOR ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES.

27 (E) THE APPLICANT HAS AN APPROVED APPLICATION FOR ASYLUM IN


1 THE UNITED STATES.

2 (F) THE APPLICANT HAS ENTERED INTO THE UNITED STATES IN

3 REFUGEE STATUS.

4 (G) THE APPLICANT HAS A PENDING OR APPROVED APPLICATION FOR

5 TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS IN THE UNITED STATES.

6 (H) THE APPLICANT HAS APPROVED DEFERRED ACTION STATUS.

7 (I) THE APPLICANT HAS A PENDING APPLICATION FOR ADJUSTMENT

8 OF STATUS TO THAT OF AN ALIEN LAWFULLY ADMITTED FOR PERMANENT

9 RESIDENCE IN THE UNITED STATES OR CONDITIONAL PERMANENT RESIDENCE

10 STATUS IN THE UNITED STATES.

11 (2) IF AN APPLICANT PRESENTS EVIDENCE DESCRIBED IN

12 SUBSECTION (1)(D) THROUGH (I), THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL NOT

13 ISSUE AN OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE UNDER SECTION

14 307, BUT MAY ISSUE A TEMPORARY OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S

15 LICENSE TO THE APPLICANT. A TEMPORARY OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR

16 CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE ISSUED UNDER THIS SUBSECTION IS VALID ONLY

17 DURING THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT THE APPLICANT IS AUTHORIZED TO

18 STAY IN THE UNITED STATES OR, IF THERE IS NO DEFINITE END TO THE

19 PERIOD OF AUTHORIZED STAY, FOR 1 YEAR. ( people who used advance parole)

20 (3) A TEMPORARY OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE

21 ISSUED UNDER THIS SECTION SHALL CLEARLY INDICATE THAT IT IS

22 TEMPORARY AND SHALL STATE THE DATE ON WHICH IT EXPIRES.

23 (4) A TEMPORARY OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE

24 ISSUED UNDER THIS SECTION MAY BE RENEWED ONLY UPON PRESENTATION

25 OF VALID DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE THAT THE STATUS BY WHICH THE

26 APPLICANT QUALIFIED FOR THE TEMPORARY OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR

27 CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE HAS BEEN EXTENDED BY THE UNITED STATES


1 SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

2 (5) THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL VERIFY WITH THE ISSUING

3 AGENCY THE VALIDITY AND COMPLETENESS OF EACH DOCUMENT PRESENTED

4 BY AN APPLICANT FOR AN OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE

5 UNDER THIS CHAPTER. THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL NOT ACCEPT A

6 FOREIGN DOCUMENT, OTHER THAN AN OFFICIAL PASSPORT, TO SATISFY THE

7 APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS UNDER THIS CHAPTER.

8 (6) THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL USE TECHNOLOGY TO CAPTURE

9 DIGITAL IMAGES OF IDENTITY SOURCE DOCUMENTS SO THAT THE IMAGES

10 ARE CAPABLE OF BEING RETAINED IN ELECTRONIC STORAGE IN A

11 TRANSFERABLE FORMAT.

12 (7) THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL RETAIN PAPER COPIES OF

13 SOURCE DOCUMENTS PRESENTED BY AN APPLICANT TO OBTAIN AN

14 OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE UNDER THIS CHAPTER FOR

15 NOT LESS THAN 7 YEARS OR IMAGES OF THOSE SOURCE DOCUMENTS FOR NOT

16 LESS THAN 10 YEARS.

17 (8) THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL ESTABLISH AN EFFECTIVE

18 PROCEDURE TO CONFIRM OR VERIFY A RENEWING APPLICANT'S

19 INFORMATION.

20 (9) THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL CONFIRM WITH THE SOCIAL

21 SECURITY ADMINISTRATION A SOCIAL SECURITY ACCOUNT NUMBER

22 PRESENTED BY A PERSON USING THE FULL SOCIAL SECURITY ACCOUNT

23 NUMBER OR CONFIRM THE APPLICANT'S INELIGIBILITY FOR ISSUANCE OF A

24 SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER.

25 (10) THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL REFUSE TO ISSUE AN

26 OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR A CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE TO A PERSON HOLDING

27 AN OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE ISSUED BY ANOTHER


1 STATE WITHOUT CONFIRMATION THAT THE PERSON IS TERMINATING OR HAS

2 TERMINATED THE OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE ISSUED

3 BY THE OTHER STATE.

4 (11) THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL DO ALL OF THE FOLLOWING:

5 (A) ENSURE THE PHYSICAL SECURITY OF LOCATIONS WHERE

6 OPERATOR'S LICENSES AND CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSES ARE PRODUCED AND THE

7 SECURITY OF DOCUMENT MATERIALS AND PAPERS FROM WHICH OPERATOR'S

8 LICENSES AND CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSES ARE PRODUCED.

9 (B) SUBJECT ALL PERSONS AUTHORIZED TO MANUFACTURE OR PRODUCE

10 OPERATOR'S LICENSES OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSES TO APPROPRIATE

11 SECURITY CLEARANCE REQUIREMENTS.

12 (C) ESTABLISH FRAUDULENT DOCUMENT RECOGNITION TRAINING

13 PROGRAMS FOR APPROPRIATE EMPLOYEES ENGAGED IN THE ISSUANCE OF

14 OPERATOR'S LICENSES AND CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSES.

15 (12) FOR PURPOSES OF THIS CHAPTER, THE SECRETARY OF STATE

16 SHALL PRESUME THAT AN OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE

17 FOR WHICH AN APPLICATION HAS BEEN MADE FOR RENEWAL, DUPLICATION,

18 OR REISSUANCE WAS ISSUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF

19 THIS CHAPTER IF AT THE TIME THE APPLICATION IS MADE THE

20 OPERATOR'S LICENSE OR CHAUFFEUR'S LICENSE IS NOT EXPIRED,

21 CANCELED, SUSPENDED, OR REVOKED. THE PRESUMPTION CREATED UNDER

22 THIS SUBSECTION DOES NOT APPLY IF THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS

23 NOTIFIED BY A LOCAL, STATE, OR FEDERAL GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY THAT

24 THE PERSON SEEKING A RENEWAL, DUPLICATION, OR REISSUANCE IS

25 EITHER OF THE FOLLOWING:

26 (A) NOT A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES.

27 (B) NOT LEGALLY IN THE UNITED STATES.

xlr8r
01-28-2008, 11:25 PM
Yeah....it sucks. I had the same thing happen to me when I renewed my license last month. The WI law went into effect on 1 Apr 2007.

My wife received her Driver's Licence last month with big 'TEMPORARY' words on it. They gave it based on H4 validation dates.

english_august
01-30-2008, 09:05 AM
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/1/prweb661904.htm

Legal, Highly-Skilled Immigrants Disappointed with Michigan's Decision to Deny Driver's License to Them
Instead of encouraging legal highly-skilled immigrants that can boost Michigan's economy, the state sends a signal that they are not welcome in the state.
(PRWEB (http://www.prweb.com/)) January 30, 2008 -- Michigan Secretary of State, Ms. Terri Lynn Land, the head of Department of Motor Vehicles in the state, has issued a new rule denying driver's license to immigrants on a temporary visa status. This means that legal highly skilled immigrants whose green card applications are pending due to massive backlogs and who are expected to drive Michigan's economy won't be allowed to drive on Michigan's driver's license. The new rule is based on the interpretation of state law by State Attorney General Mike Cox that driver's licenses can be issued only to 'legal and permanent' residents.
Immigration Voice has been monitoring the situation arising out of this new rule. Decision to deny licenses to legal immigrants and temporary visa holders is unprecedented. It will create extreme hardships to members of our community in commuting to their work, in a state that lacks a proper public transport system.
While questions are being raised on the decision of the state in interpreting a 'legal resident' in conflict with that of the Federal government, Immigration Voice has learned that efforts are being made to pass a legislation to remedy the impasse created. Immigration Voice, after careful analysis of the Michigan senate bill 962 (section 310 F), believes that the bill, as proposed, will create more problems than it's attempting to fix.

Highly skilled-immigrants who have applied for Green Card will be issued temporary operator licenses which will be valid for only one year.
Due to massive backlogs in employment immigration, most of these immigrants will be required to renew their licenses annually for the next 6-12 years. The bill requires verification of status for each renewal.
It will create hardship for this community, and additional workload for the departmental staff in renewing licenses every year. It also requires that the department train its workers in the immigration law so that applications aren't rejected due to misinterpretation of the complex US immigration law.
Legal immigrants may face issues in obtaining mortgages, educational loans or otherwise face issues in providing proof of identification, due to the temporary nature of these licenses. Many banks and financial institutions do not accept passports issued by a foreign government as the primary proof of identification.Vivek Prabhu, Michigan Chapter Head of Immigration Voice said "state of Michigan should provide driver's licenses to legal immigrants and the international students without further delay. Any new law that creates additional restrictions on immigrants, who contribute a lot to the state economy, will make these immigrants feel unwelcome in the state. Michigan has already lost 30,000 residents to recession. It can ill-afford to lose thousands of workers and students, which will be disastrous to its economy and the universities". Immigration Voice urges Michigan lawmakers to work with us in passing a sensible legislation that does not create undue hardship to the immigrants and overburdens the department with additional workload. As an organization representing thousands of legal immigrant workers and students, it also urges Michigan Attorney General and Secretary of State to talk to it on issues affecting the legal immigrant community.
Immigration Voice is a non-profit grassroots organization working to solve the issues faced by highly-skilled immigrants waiting to adjust status to permanent residents of the United States.
Immigration Voice
P O Box 1372
Arcadia, CA 91077-1372
Telephone: (202) 386-6250
Fax : (202) 403-3853
Email: info@immigrationvoice.org
Website : http://www.immigrationvoice.org (http://www.immigrationvoice.org/)
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