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View Full Version : IS porting EB3 to EB2 helpful? Not in the long run


kumarc123
04-09-2010, 02:34 PM
Hello All,

After much consideration of the recent visa bulletins, I have began to think is EB3 porting to EB2 really helpful?

Don't take me wrong, I am not against Eb3, I understand their frustration, but porting is not helping us. It is not helping anyone. Mainly because USCIS/DOS attitude is just roll from lower level to mid level, they can suffer as well. I believe porting may be used as an excuse by USCIS/DOS, for slower number movements for EB2. My two cents is, we should not let USCIS/DOS get away with it.

I urge you all too think, Porting is not helping us, EB3 guys, if you think just by porting you can cut short, you are dead wrong. As initially, you might see a bright light, but eventually it will only be a reflection. What is needed is a change in Employment Visa categories all together. So everyone can benefit, it doesn't make sense moving dates for one category and retrogressing the others.

IV admins, please advise.

rtarar
04-09-2010, 02:41 PM
Its funny you say this. How long have you been in line so as to mention the phrase "cut short". And yes I do have a masters from US and job requirements for EB2 and lawyer recommended to file as EB3.There are many like me.

kumarc123
04-09-2010, 02:45 PM
Its funny you say this. How long have you been in line so as to mention the phrase "cut short". And yes I do have a masters from US and job requirements for EB2 and lawyer recommended to file as EB3.There are many like me.

I have a masters from a good ranking University, I wonder why, your lawyer would make you do that? Anyways i wish all the luck, but interfiling will only make process more crowded and will be harder to put USCIS/DOS on the line.

Was my two cents, nothing against EB3 folks.

veni001
04-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Hello All,

After much consideration of the recent visa bulletins, I have began to think is EB3 porting to EB2 really helpful?

Don't take me wrong, I am not against Eb3, I understand their frustration, but porting is not helping us. It is not helping anyone. Mainly because USCIS/DOS attitude is just roll from lower level to mid level, they can suffer as well. I believe porting may be used as an excuse by USCIS/DOS, for slower number movements for EB2. My two cents is, we should not let USCIS/DOS get away with it.

I urge you all too think, Porting is not helping us, EB3 guys, if you think just by porting you can cut short, you are dead wrong. As initially, you might see a bright light, but eventually it will only be a reflection. What is needed is a change in Employment Visa categories all together. So everyone can benefit, it doesn't make sense moving dates for one category and retrogressing the others.

IV admins, please advise.

Personally, one can not suggest/recommend to port or not to,EB3 or EB2 it all depends on several factors, for example

Job Requirements
Job Location
Area of specialization
Prevailing Wage
DOL determination at PERM stage
USCIS determination at I-140
Beneficiary qualifications

many other...

One may be qualified at his/her first job others may be qualified at later time!

So drawing conclusions based on what we think or believe may not be correct all the time!
my 2c

bigboy007
04-09-2010, 02:54 PM
Category is determined by job requirements not the candidates degree. Yes In the short term interfiling will help as Eb2 is current to 2005, Eb2 folks Wont like it but if there is an opportunity why to leave ? Eb2 has better chances to be faster than Eb3 in any future date.



I have a masters from good ranking University, I wonder why, your lawyer would make you do that? Anyways i wish all the luck, but interfiling will only make process more crowded and will be harder to put USCIS/DOS on the line.

Was my two cents, nothing against EB3 folks.

rtarar
04-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Also don't forget the fact that back in 2003 and 2004 there was no retrogression. Lawyers suggested path of least resistance to get 100% approval rates and that was EB3.It meant less documentation and less over heads on lawyers bottoms lines.

As mentioned in the earlier post , its all relative and there is no free lunch , though some folks do get free lunches call it luck or otherwise. In short we are all crabs in a jar, you pull one down the other will make sure to pull others back in if they try to climb out: which I think is against the founding principles of this forum.

But so is the nature of being in a mob and not having a collective consciousness and it may never happen unless there are some positive signs in the legislation.Until then just watch your life go by as a dark satire.

acecupid
04-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Hello All,

After much consideration of the recent visa bulletins, I have began to think is EB3 porting to EB2 really helpful?

Don't take me wrong, I am not against Eb3, I understand their frustration, but porting is not helping us. It is not helping anyone. Mainly because USCIS/DOS attitude is just roll from lower level to mid level, they can suffer as well. I believe porting may be used as an excuse by USCIS/DOS, for slower number movements for EB2. My two cents is, we should not let USCIS/DOS get away with it.

I urge you all too think, Porting is not helping us, EB3 guys, if you think just by porting you can cut short, you are dead wrong. As initially, you might see a bright light, but eventually it will only be a reflection. What is needed is a change in Employment Visa categories all together. So everyone can benefit, it doesn't make sense moving dates for one category and retrogressing the others.

IV admins, please advise.

IS porting EB3 to EB2 helpful?
Yes it is helpful for EB3 and No it is not helpful for EB2 ;) I dont think anyone is going to base their decision on porting on your 2 cents.

If its legal to port and they have the right qualifications then why should EB3 folks not do it ?

rtarar
04-09-2010, 03:14 PM
@kumar123

"Process more crowded" can also mean that I could think that me being in line since Aug 2004 and you getting in line in 2007 is what makes it crowded. So the crowding logic is moot and does not hold any value as it can be argued any way you like it.The only benefit will be for flame wars here in this forum., take a holistic view and see that "we are in the same jar".

kartikiran
04-09-2010, 03:17 PM
kumarc123, i think the law is the law and people will try to play by the rules to see what works for them.

If you look closely, for EB2 members spillover will provide priority dates in their favor. Is this fair for someone who has been waiting for more than 8 years see someone get a visa within 4 years, especially with what is called "extra visa numbers". If you ask an EB3 category person, they might argue the "extra visa numbers" must be used to clear the backlog who have been waiting for a very long time.

Coming back to porting, EB3 members who have been waiting for a long time are entitled to use the law to their favor. Especially if they see they have a chance to end their miserable wait.

The right solution in my opinion is "visa recapture"(in a recurring mode, just in case if USCIS wastes more visa numbers in future) implemented as a law, which will ensure visa numbers are never wasted and if wasted can be used the following years. This will take care of backlogs/also gives certain amount of freedom for future applicants too. The only complaint I have is I hope IV core, spends time only on solutions which works for all categories & not worry about working on whether spillover is being followed or not. Because IV members come from various categories, countries with various scenarios. So IV core's time spent must be for all.

I have no qualms about other members trying to work on Spillovers etc. whatever works for whoever, I am fine with it(except undocumented, who I think can join behind all of us, but not in front of us).

Till then whatever is permitted as per law can be used by any applicant who fits into criterias needed.

P.S. I don't know how much numbers visa recapture will provide though as of today...
Hello All,

After much consideration of the recent visa bulletins, I have began to think is EB3 porting to EB2 really helpful?

Don't take me wrong, I am not against Eb3, I understand their frustration, but porting is not helping us. It is not helping anyone. Mainly because USCIS/DOS attitude is just roll from lower level to mid level, they can suffer as well. I believe porting may be used as an excuse by USCIS/DOS, for slower number movements for EB2. My two cents is, we should not let USCIS/DOS get away with it.

I urge you all too think, Porting is not helping us, EB3 guys, if you think just by porting you can cut short, you are dead wrong. As initially, you might see a bright light, but eventually it will only be a reflection. What is needed is a change in Employment Visa categories all together. So everyone can benefit, it doesn't make sense moving dates for one category and retrogressing the others.

IV admins, please advise.

gene77
04-09-2010, 03:18 PM
Its funny you say this. How long have you been in line so as to mention the phrase "cut short". And yes I do have a masters from US and job requirements for EB2 and lawyer recommended to file as EB3.There are many like me. .

nc14
04-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Good one acecupid :D

IS porting EB3 to EB2 helpful?
Yes it is helpful for EB3 and No it is not helpful for EB2 ;) I dont think anyone is going to base their decision on porting on your 2 cents.

If its legal to port and they have the right qualifications then why should EB3 folks not do it ?

sunnymit
04-09-2010, 03:52 PM
Hello All,

After much consideration of the recent visa bulletins, I have began to think is EB3 porting to EB2 really helpful?

Don't take me wrong, I am not against Eb3, I understand their frustration, but porting is not helping us. It is not helping anyone. Mainly because USCIS/DOS attitude is just roll from lower level to mid level, they can suffer as well. I believe porting may be used as an excuse by USCIS/DOS, for slower number movements for EB2. My two cents is, we should not let USCIS/DOS get away with it.

I urge you all too think, Porting is not helping us, EB3 guys, if you think just by porting you can cut short, you are dead wrong. As initially, you might see a bright light, but eventually it will only be a reflection. What is needed is a change in Employment Visa categories all together. So everyone can benefit, it doesn't make sense moving dates for one category and retrogressing the others.

IV admins, please advise.

How about swapping place with one of the EB3 guys and then we will see how much you favor or oppose the porting, brother. Only if you are in it yourself would you realize what hope it really provides to the EB3 folks who have been waiting forever... If you think it is OK for the spillover to come to EB2 first, then I don't see why you think that people shouldn't be able to port into EB2 from EB3. People who are moving into EB3 are doing it only because they are qualified for it... No?

One last thing... lets say the situation gets reversed (say EB3 is current or near current, EB2 retrogressed to 2001/2002) and you saw an opportunity to file in EB3 category, what would you do?

kumarc123
04-09-2010, 04:44 PM
How about swapping place with one of the EB3 guys and then we will see how much you favor or oppose the porting, brother. Only if you are in it yourself would you realize what hope it really provides to the EB3 folks who have been waiting forever... If you think it is OK for the spillover to come to EB2 first, then I don't see why you think that people shouldn't be able to port into EB2 from EB3. People who are moving into EB3 are doing it only because they are qualified for it... No?

One last thing... lets say the situation gets reversed (say EB3 is current or near current, EB2 retrogressed to 2001/2002) and you saw an opportunity to file in EB3 category, what would you do?

Brother,
I will SWAP places if you have an EAD. Also I believe in 2008, their was a time period for brief when EB2 became U and EB3 dates were still current

kumarc123
04-09-2010, 04:47 PM
Just because I posted my comments about porting people just gave me reds. All I expressed was a change in overall system. Guys how shallow can you be, SHAME ON YOU GUYS.


My post intended to bring in to attention that porting may not be the best alternative.

Jesus, I do understand the frustration, but don't have to criticize every opinion. No wonder we lack unity. All I mentioned was a recapture visa could help us all.

Sad to see us fight with each other for small things rather having a good discussion and thinking for the overall good.

kumarc123
04-09-2010, 04:56 PM
kumarc123, i think the law is the law and people will try to play by the rules to see what works for them.

If you look closely, for EB2 members spillover will provide priority dates in their favor. Is this fair for someone who has been waiting for more than 8 years see someone get a visa within 4 years, especially with what is called "extra visa numbers". If you ask an EB3 category person, they might argue the "extra visa numbers" must be used to clear the backlog who have been waiting for a very long time.

Coming back to porting, EB3 members who have been waiting for a long time are entitled to use the law to their favor. Especially if they see they have a chance to end their miserable wait.

The right solution in my opinion is "visa recapture"(in a recurring mode, just in case if USCIS wastes more visa numbers in future) implemented as a law, which will ensure visa numbers are never wasted and if wasted can be used the following years. This will take care of backlogs/also gives certain amount of freedom for future applicants too. The only complaint I have is I hope IV core, spends time only on solutions which works for all categories & not worry about working on whether spillover is being followed or not. Because IV members come from various categories, countries with various scenarios. So IV core's time spent must be for all.

I have no qualms about other members trying to work on Spillovers etc. whatever works for whoever, I am fine with it(except undocumented, who I think can join behind all of us, but not in front of us).

Till then whatever is permitted as per law can be used by any applicant who fits into criterias needed.

P.S. I don't know how much numbers visa recapture will provide though as of today...

I meant the same thing, I didn't mean any discrimination, my apologies.

InTheMoment
04-09-2010, 05:01 PM
rtarar,

That is a very good point. I remember back in 1998 my sister (grateful to her!) explained to me this whole EB thing.... and I made it a point, after my grad degree in 2000, to make sure that the job requirements and lawyer supports EB2 come what may. Those early lessons helped in a big way... as I knew that the then current status of EB2 and EB3 (2001-2005) meant nothing (as it was just a temp. visa recapture).

For now I think old EB3's should do whatever possible to port if they fit the criteria for EB2.


Also don't forget the fact that back in 2003 and 2004 there was no retrogression. Lawyers suggested path of least resistance to get 100% approval rates and that was EB3.It meant less documentation and less over heads on lawyers bottoms lines.

As mentioned in the earlier post , its all relative and there is no free lunch , though some folks do get free lunches call it luck or otherwise. In short we are all crabs in a jar, you pull one down the other will make sure to pull others back in if they try to climb out: which I think is against the founding principles of this forum.

But so is the nature of being in a mob and not having a collective consciousness and it may never happen unless there are some positive signs in the legislation.Until then just watch your life go by as a dark satire.

kartikiran
04-09-2010, 05:22 PM
I meant the same thing, I didn't mean any discrimination, my apologies.

Kumarc123, I did not give you the reds and I never mind a good stirring conversation anytime. The irony is I was once given reds, by EB2ers for providing similar concept of visa recapture instead of putting our focus on spillovers.

Go figure...:D

easy with the reds and greens.

ilovestirfries
04-10-2010, 03:05 PM
Its funny you say this. How long have you been in line so as to mention the phrase "cut short". And yes I do have a masters from US and job requirements for EB2 and lawyer recommended to file as EB3.There are many like me.

I have Masters !!! The job that I applied my GC through, did require someone with Masters degree with advanced education and experience and the only reason why I didn't get applied on EB2 is because, my experienced attorney thought, applying through EB3 is quicker and easier in comparison with EB2 (this is in Feb. 2004) and suggested that I apply through EB3 !!! I am talking about sometime in 2004 when attorney's word did have some merit !!! I agreed with him and there it went !!! My filing on EB3 !!!

Am I "cutting short" someone's line? I don't think so !!! Infact, when I look at most of those people who complain about EB3 guys porting to EB2 line, I can't help but laugh as some of these guys came into this country much later than 2004 (am not saying all) and they have no clue what people like me (people who came in or around 1999 - 2002) had to go through to stick onto the job during the great dotcom burst !!! :)

So, please don't even mention "cutting short" the line !!! If at all, someone has a right to mention that, it has to be people like me !!!! But then, I am not going to use that phrase as I have no right to judge anyone on their current situation without knowing what they had to undergo to get at where they are at now !!!

ForImmReform
12-28-2010, 11:53 PM
I have Masters !!! The job that I applied my GC through, did require someone with Masters degree with advanced education and experience and the only reason why I didn't get applied on EB2 is because, my experienced attorney thought, applying through EB3 is quicker and easier in comparison with EB2 (this is in Feb. 2004) and suggested that I apply through EB3 !!! I am talking about sometime in 2004 when attorney's word did have some merit !!! I agreed with him and there it went !!! My filing on EB3 !!!

Am I "cutting short" someone's line? I don't think so !!! Infact, when I look at most of those people who complain about EB3 guys porting to EB2 line, I can't help but laugh as some of these guys came into this country much later than 2004 (am not saying all) and they have no clue what people like me (people who came in or around 1999 - 2002) had to go through to stick onto the job during the great dotcom burst !!! :)

So, please don't even mention "cutting short" the line !!! If at all, someone has a right to mention that, it has to be people like me !!!! But then, I am not going to use that phrase as I have no right to judge anyone on their current situation without knowing what they had to undergo to get at where they are at now !!!
I had the exact same story as you guys. US MS + lame ass lawyer = EB3. Finally convinced my employer to re-do everything last year and they did it with a new lawyer. Apparently the stars lined up right with labor approval in 52 days, I-140 in 2 days, and I-485 in 50 days.

bondgoli007
12-29-2010, 05:02 AM
Just because I posted my comments about porting people just gave me reds. All I expressed was a change in overall system. Guys how shallow can you be, SHAME ON YOU GUYS.


My post intended to bring in to attention that porting may not be the best alternative.

Jesus, I do understand the frustration, but don't have to criticize every opinion. No wonder we lack unity. All I mentioned was a recapture visa could help us all.

Sad to see us fight with each other for small things rather having a good discussion and thinking for the overall good.
Very Nice!! One more "forward thinking" intellect who somehow is only giving his "2 cents" but gets an unnecessary Eb2 vs EB3 debate started for nothing.

How come guys like you are never there to give your 2 cents or better lead folks to be united and work together for a common goal? and your generic observations don't count (yea, I went through some of your posts just to be sure of your "contribution" for IV)....How come with all the education and qualifications you have you don't seem to avoid dividing our already fractured community?

By the way I gave you a green because you really seem to be adversely affected on getting Reds but still do not get why you got them...maybe getting a green might help ??

To top it off, you want advise from IV core!!! Here some simple advise, stop giving crappy 2 cents and if you are really so insightful, do something positive on here.

my "2 cents"

by the way I am Eb2 and respectfully disagree with your opinion.

bondgoli007
12-29-2010, 05:20 AM
Kumarc123, I did not give you the reds and I never mind a good stirring conversation anytime. The irony is I was once given reds, by EB2ers for providing similar concept of visa recapture instead of putting our focus on spillovers.

Go figure...:D

easy with the reds and greens.
Kartikiran,

As a EB2 I can only say that any rational Eb2 applicant from India will wholeheartedly support and work towards a visa recapture solution. The main gap here is the initiative and opportunity for such a solution to even blossom. Due to this gap Eb2 folks seek and will continue to seek refuge with whatever movement we see via spillovers and Eb3 folks will seek relief with the porting. I personally don't see anything wrong with either approaches.

Though we are very grateful to IV core lets face it....we lack concerted, united and consistent effort among the grassroot levels to move ahead with such a goal like visa recapture.

Hopefully we get an opportunity in the near future to be part of a major initiative...until then I hope as highly educated and logical people we stop indulging in fracturing any part of the IV community.

blacktongue
12-29-2010, 09:57 AM
Kartikiran,

As a EB2 I can only say that any rational Eb2 applicant from India will wholeheartedly support and work towards a visa recapture solution. The main gap here is the initiative and opportunity for such a solution to even blossom. Due to this gap Eb2 folks seek and will continue to seek refuge with whatever movement we see via spillovers and Eb3 folks will seek relief with the porting. I personally don't see anything wrong with either approaches.

Though we are very grateful to IV core lets face it....we lack concerted, united and consistent effort among the grassroot levels to move ahead with such a goal like visa recapture.

Hopefully we get an opportunity in the near future to be part of a major initiative...until then I hope as highly educated and logical people we stop indulging in fracturing any part of the IV community.

Many against what IV does. Example country limits will give Indians more green cards only. Chinese and ROW people behind Indians then. Indians take all numbers. So unity tough.
EB2 happy. Do not care EB3. They predict visa bulletin and not meet Senator. EB3 fight blame. Not meet Senator. EB1 not care. They do not backlog facing people. EB3 Other workers where they? People who got Green card do not care. Leave and go away. So people to blame only.

tonyHK12
12-29-2010, 12:33 PM
Many against what IV does. Example country limits will give Indians more green cards only. Chinese and ROW people behind Indians then. Indians take all numbers. So unity tough.

Increasing per-country limits will benefit all retrogressed countries including China, EB3 Mexico. This is also a policy of AILA - Immigration lawyers association, and doesn't benefit any particular country.
Increasing quota to 15% would give about 7000 a year to EB2, EB3 from both India & China.

alisa
12-29-2010, 01:47 PM
Not "All" retrogressed countries will be helped by increasing country limits.
For example, EB3 Russia will take longer.
Without increasing visa numbers, which is unlikely, its a zero-sum game.

Increasing per-country limits will benefit all retrogressed countries including China, EB3 Mexico. This is also a policy of AILA - Immigration lawyers association, and doesn't benefit any particular country.
Increasing quota to 15% would give about 7000 a year to EB2, EB3 from both India & China.

tonyHK12
12-29-2010, 02:12 PM
In case of EB3, if annual visas are allocated about 45000. so if the new per country is at 7K, you would need to see 7 countries with this demand to fill up the demand.
This seems to affect ROW EB3 later filers, but in very few thousand per year.
While its a zero sum for EB3, it seems Future ROW EB3 may be slightly delayed, benefiting retrogressed countries from past years.
We are also campaigning for Visa recapture and an increase in Annual Visa numbers.
Anyway, the way EB categories are currently, EB3 will see relief only after EB2 gets current, using any of the means above. We can't fix EB3 before that.
Then the increase in per-country limit will also directly help EB3.

Not "All" retrogressed countries will be helped by increasing country limits.
For example, EB3 Russia will take longer.
Without increasing visa numbers, which is unlikely, its a zero-sum game.

nogc_noproblem
12-29-2010, 06:57 PM
Well, when you filed originally, the job requirement was for EB3 qualification and your PERM and I-140 approved based on that. Now after looking at the EB3 situation you/ your company are changing the actual job requirement itself so as to fit into EB2, is it legal?

It is a matter of time for USCIS to take a hard look into this issue, after seeing the number of portings, USCIS might take-up this issue sooner than later.

Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the capability of EB3 folks, but unfortunately it is their fault (knowingly/ unknowingly) or bad luck that their case was filed under EB3 on the first hand. This issue should have been taken-up then and there itself, trying to get it fixed now creating chaos. What if USCIS thinks that you are over-qualified for actual job requirement? I had seen a similar case in my company sometime ago.

IS porting EB3 to EB2 helpful?
Yes it is helpful for EB3 and No it is not helpful for EB2 ;) I dont think anyone is going to base their decision on porting on your 2 cents.

If its legal to port and they have the right qualifications then why should EB3 folks not do it ?

ForImmReform
12-30-2010, 07:26 PM
Yes it is very legal - to answer your question. Changing job requirements is a legitimate business decision that can be substantiated by a "business necessity" evidence.

vz2kl
12-31-2010, 10:55 AM
For the guys who think it was their employer's or lawyers mistake in filing for EB3 instead od EB2, the reason they do it is because there are definitely more queries for EB2 and rejection is more in EB2 over EB3 for a given circumstance. However after a couple of years you gain more experience in terms of years and have more paychecks so it becomes easier and more sense to apply under EB2 because now you have more supporting documentation. If applying for EB2 was easier you really think lawyers would not chose that instead of EB3. They see more cases than normal people like us do. They know what cases have more possibility of rejection. However all of us think we are more qualified than what the society or USCIS thinks we are and think we are entitled to file directly under EB2....